Am I The Only One Wondering How The Velaryons Are Still On Team Black's Side?

Yeah so Remember when Ryan Condal said Aegon and Sunfyre's bond was "Green propaganda" and everyone got understandably mad at him??

Take a look at what he said regarding b&c:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HOTDGreens/s/NabfGkmeWs

Bro...what the actual fuck did you just say?

Apparently blood and cheese was all green propaganda that Alicent spread to make saint Rhaenyra look bad. It was all a misunderstanding, there was no choice between Jaehaerys and Maelor, it was all made up.

Alicent just invented the most evil lie she could muster up to villainize the amazing blacks. What was shown onscreen is the real representation of what transpired.

Jesus Christ Condal i get that you hate book! Alicent (and Alicent in general) for some reason but can you stop blaming that poor woman, who had to watch her grandchild get beheaded, and not say she was lying out of her ass? Is that so hard?

"You were supposed to be rooting for blood and cheese and hope they didn't get caught!"

For the love of the Seven, if you don't want all the money you spent marketing this show to go down the drain Hbo please keep this man away from any interviews, I can't listen to him anymore without wanting to turn my phone off.

I genuinely can't fault many greens for deciding to stop watching because of this bs.

It's so embarrassing that a writer who is supposed to portray a civil war and keep both sides on equal ground pulls this type of shit. For me the next episode is coming out tomorrow and honestly I have no motivation to watch, absolutely no excitement.

I tried to deny it in the past, but now the writer's bias has become so blatant that my love for the show has taken a hit. Hotd truly is a high budget team black fanfic.

And here I thought without D&D in the picture we would be fine.

Season 1 from Alicent's POV:

You wake up one morning and your mother is dead. You are told to ask no questions. Your father didn't use to pay much attention to you, but now he calls you to Red Keep. Maybe you will be useful. The King has an only daughter after all, close to your age. You like it there, and you become friends with the King's daughter. But then, her mother dies. You are not allowed to relive the grief of losing your own mother or grieve with your friend, because suddenly, the Queen is dead, and that leaves up space for another. Your father says so. More importantly, the King's Hand instructs you so and tells you to be the King's friend. "But we don't have anything in common," you say, "He very well could have been my father," you think. No matter. "You should wear one of your mother's dresses." And you do. And you try hard not to say the wrong thing, but you don't know whom you should please and you're not allowed to be yourself. "What would Rhenyra think? What would father think? What would the King think? What would The Seven think? What does that mean for me?" you wonder. You are advised to not talk about what you are doing to anyone. Oh, and don't tell your best friend you are secretly meeting with her father. Let this poison your relationship. Your King tells you so.

It has now become known that the King wants a new wife. You pray you'd get out of this somehow, but you realize that he wants you. Now, what will you do? Well, your father would be pleased and proud for once. Viserys would make you his Queen. Maybe Rhaenyra will understand? Maybe this is what you want too? No, don't think about what you want. It doesn't matter anyway. The King has declared that he will marry you.

The wedding is on. You see Otto's eyes glowing with pride and his smile is beaming. Rhaenyra does not even look at you. It pains you so much and you want to tear up but the King is watching. The feast is over and your father calls you to his chambers. He tells you about your duties as the King's wife. "If your mother was alive, she would know how to best put this," he says, as he explains that you have to yield to Viserys' desires. Yes, he uses that very word. So you do that. You go to your husband when he calls you. He says he will try to be gentle with you, but you loathe his very touch. Somehow it feels so wrong; he is your friend's father, and he is twice your age. But he is the King. And you are a Queen now.

The days pass without Rhaenyra's friendship. When did you stop dreaming? When did you stop being a little girl? Why can't you roam the halls again, arms linked together? Oh. You suddenly find out why. You are pregnant. You are a big girl now. Your first thought is to tell your friend, go to Rhaenyra, and share the news with her. But she wouldn't like that. Then who can you tell? Who else do you have to share such big and important news with? Your father doesn't need to be told, he guesses right away and calls you to him. "You will have to be very careful now," he says. "Queen Aemma had lost six children." Somehow, everyone is suddenly more attentive. Not to you, but to your royal womb. You panic when it's time to give birth. Everything is so new and terrifying. Viserys is happy. It's a son! You send word to Rhaenyra, to meet her baby brother. "I hope that is alright?" you think. "It's not like my son will be heir to the throne. That's still Rhaenyra's."

Your father hits you with the stark reality, however. Your children are growing up in an uncertain future with Rhaenyra as heir, constantly vulnerable to the threat of war. You still try and support her, you trust her, and you encourage her father to find a suitable match for her. But she lies to you. Or does she? You can't be sure. She is serving you half-truths. Does she really think you are stupid and you will not find out that she is no longer a maiden? How can you trust her again after that? If she is lying to your face, then why wouldn't she threaten the lives of your children if need be? No, you need to act. Your father was right. It's you or her.

Ten years have passed and you can still see through Rhaenyra's lies. She still thinks you are a fool, doesn't she? Of course none of her children are Laenor's! Why can't nobody else see that? But you can. Because you used to be friends once. And as usual, she is getting what she wants without questions and she avoids all consequences, whereas you have to fight for all you have, alone. She will always have Viserys' support, and you will always have four heirs. It's not about you and Rhaenyra anymore, but about the survival of your family. Yet, you still want decency and honor to prevail, and you want to serve the realm above all.

At this vulnerable time when you need council the most, your informant over the years finds a way to cast his net over you. Did you really think he was being a genuine friend, and that he would not want anything in return? Now you could be implicated in two murders. How did you end up in this situation? Larys becomes another person to whose wishes you should comply.

Then the most tragic thing of all happens. Your son, Aemond, is maimed. He loses an eye. You have never felt more excruciating pain at the sight and a flaming rage toward those responsible. It was Lucaerys, Rhaenyra's son. He should apologize. She could show she's sorry and deeply saddened over what happened. But no, she manages to use the incident to position herself as the victim. "Is she for real now?" you think. "How can she be so heartless, so cold, so cruel? Doesn't she know what I have lost, all in her hands? Does she really have the nerve to pretend that she is offended by mere words, while MY SON LOST AN EYE? She really knows no limits, does she?" And you finally snap, and you hurt her. You have never done this before, and now you see her blood trickling. Goodness, it's really her blood you spilled!

How can things ever be right now that she has that visible proof? Yet, you still think she would make a great queen. That is, until Viserys tells you that "Aegon" should be King and that you must "unite the realm against the cold and the dark." You are the only one who can do it. Now what? Once again, you face a dilemma. Should you stand by Rheanyra as heir, or should you trust Viserys' dying words? Can you really trust that Rhaenyra will ensure the survival of your children, after all her lies? And what is really best for them, and for the whole realm? Before you even have time to think, your father and the Small Council tell you that the succession is settled and that Aegon is to be crowned King. Once again, the desires of others precede yours. They want to kill Rhaenyra! Now, that's too much. You could never consent to anything like that. You were once friends and still--you still don't know how you quite feel about her. But you know you could never be the one to kill her.

The Silent Sisters cover up Viserys' body and you can finally mourn him, along with your lost years of innocence. Your abuser is finally dead. But your ordeals are not over yet. You will have to crown Aegon as King, this is the only way. Rhaenys violently disrupts the coronation and now you know that no one is safe. She will go to Rhaenyra, and Rhaenyra will react. Did you do the right thing? Did you try and protect your children and the realm as best you could? Time will only tell. You are used to the twists of fate after all. But one thing is certain: nothing will be the same again because you are the Green Queen and she has the blood of the dragon.

"She also lost the privilege of being her friend when she married her father a short while after Aemma died."

Please tell me you're not blaming a 14 year old girl for being sent by her dad against her will to spend time with Viserys. The fault for that marriage is all on the king for willingly marrying his daughter's friend and on Otto for pushing his child into a marriage she didn't want to satiate his own ambition.

My god the victim blaming is this fandom is ridiculous.

Also Nyra literally slept with Daemon the day of Laena's funeral☠️

Do you know what infuriates me the most about Rhaenyra?

No, it's not her entitlement, her spoiled princess behavior and surprisingly not even her insufferable stans.

It's her complete lack of action after she marries Daemon. She finds herself in a situation where her father's health is declining at a steady pace and is as such incapable of ruling and in need of a regency. This is her big moment right? Historically when an old king/queen needed a regent their heir always stepped up to fulfill that role, to start taking the crown and testing the waters while their parent was still alive and show the council, the nobles and the people what kind of ruler they were going to be after their mom/dad died.

But not Rhaenyra. Who loved to talk about the things she was going to do after becoming queen, who loved to remind everyone that she was still the heir in spite of Aegon's birth.

This is her occasion, her opportunity to take power and start ruling, to hold her first meeting with the small council, to begin making allies at court and establish her authority and gain respect as future queen.

But no for some reason she decides to fuck off to Dragonstone and leave all the politics, all the big decisions and royal duties to the greens.

And after that not only has the audacity to complain that Alicent and Otto are the real power behind the feeble Viserys, but to get mad after being "usurped".

Like girl you literally handed them the chance to dismiss you and crown Aegon in your place on a silver plate, you don't have the right to react like this, cause unlike you they can actually recognize an opportunity and seize it lmao.

Rhaenyra v Cersei: Battle of the Bastards

Lo' and behold, looks like I'm not done with bastardposting after all. For this piece, I would like to compare and contrast the two main situations that the general public has been exposed as far as the issue of illegitimate children is concerned within the ASOIAF-verse: Rhaenyra v Cersei.

The parallels are obvious. Rhaenyra has three bastard children, Cersei has three bastard children. Let's see how they handle it.

Rules

According to Westerosi law, bastards can't inherit. It doesn't matter if they're the husband's or the wife's, the King's or the Queen's. Children born out of wedlock to any spouse are explicitly excluded from the line of succession.

Only the King can legitimise bastards via a royal decree. Enough of these "Roose legitimized Ramsay" lies. It's patently untrue. Tommen legitimized Ramsay.

In order to be legitimised, the children in question first have to be declared bastards. You cannot legitimize trueborn children. You cannot secretly legitimise bastards. "Viserys claimed Rhaenyra's children were trueborn, ergo he implicitly legitimised them." No, he didn't. He never admitted they were bastards.

Why does this matter? Because it is unclear where legitimised bastards fall in the line of succession. If they maintain their place by birth order or if they are relegated to the back of the line, behind any and all other trueborn claimants.

There are no genetic tests available in Westeros. People have to prove adultery or rely on common sense.

1. Cersei has a distinct advantage over Rhaenyra, since her children look like her. She can very easily argue that they favour her, as their mother, and this is exactly what everyone believes for years, including Robert. Since Jaime is the male version of Cersei, Joffrey, Tommen and Myrcella can look like no else. Catelyn's kids look like Catelyn and no one bats an eye. Only Arya and (to Catelyn's irritation) Jon look like Ned. However, Ned doesn't ever doubt his children are not his.

Rhaenyra's kids look nothing like Rhaenyra and nothing like Laenor. They, instead, share distinct physical traits with her sworn shield, a man seen very often in her presence. People are not idiots. There is no plausible deniability here. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Cersei's kids were, say, Dornish-looking, people would be calling her out for her bullshit.

There is a way you can reasonably get away with passing over your bastards as someone else's, but that is 100% not Rhaenyra's way. This is why Cersei is chilling in the Red Keep, living her best bad bitch life, while Rhaenyra is running away to Dragonstone when the rumours are nipping at her heels. They are not the same. There are no paternity rumours to quell Cersei's girlboss vibes. She is sly enough that even Robert is convinced he inseminated her (gross).

2. I'm not going to get into the intricacies of Ned Stark's Scooby-Doo, Hercule Poirot mystery plot of unraveling Cersei's misdeeds. Ned has his own beef with the Lannisters and is convinced they are up to no good. He investigates them like the meddling kid he is and comes away with a suspicion. He knows nothing (heh) for certain until Cersei verbally confirms it for him. yOuR bRoThEr Or YoUr lOvEr. boo!

Had Ned not been on the Lannister trail from the very beginning, a fair assumption can be made that he never even would have suspected anything untoward. He never questions the children's paternity when they visit in Winterfell.

Again, this is distinctly different from Rhaenyra's situation. No one believes Cersei's children are bastards,* whereas no one believes Rhaenyra's children are trueborn. Pretending otherwise is very, very strange.

*at the beginning of AGOT, at least

3. Robert claimed Joffrey all his life and specifically named him his son and heir in his will, under dictation, to Ned. In turn, Ned deliberately changed Robert's words and wrote them down as "my rightful heir".

This is a parallel to show!Alicent, who misunderstands Viserys' dying words and him naming his son Aegon as heir. If Alicent didn't have the right to muddle the King's meaning, then neither did Ned. However, no one in their right minds is arguing that Ned is a traitor to the Crown. I wonder why is that?

I have already pointed out the circular logic in arguing that Robert only said that because he didn't know the children weren't his.

4. So what does this mean? Can anyone just accuse anyone they don't like of being a bastard and, thus, endanger that person's entire social status?

No, of course not. But, unfortunately for Cersei, Ned and Stannis aren't just some randos in a tavern. Ned is the Hand of the King. Stannis is Lord of Dragonstone and on the Small Council. These two men have a stalwart reputation and are renowned for their obsession with justice, duty and, in Ned's case, honour.

If Ned Stark stands in front of the Iron Throne and proclaims Joffrey a bastard, risks his daughters' lives and literally ends up losing his head as a result of this,

if Stannis Baratheon sends letters throughout the realm claiming Cersei's children are illegitimate,

the people of Westeros are going to pay attention.

These two very important men using their public platform to denounce Joffrey and starting wars over this? Say what you will about them, but they are not oathbreakers and they are not liars. No, they don't come with DNA tests, but for a lot of Westerosi, this is enough. They believe it.

Is this foolproof? No, of course not! But it convinces enough people that they are willing to band together to support rival claimants to the throne, thus igniting the War of the Five Kings. Speaking of political headaches, this is a huge one!

That being said, while Cersei is playing in the Champions League, Rhaenyra is fighting for her life in the relegation zone. She doesn't even need a Ned or a Stannis to cast doubt on her because no one believes her kids are not bastards.

Moreover, Vaemond obviously parallels Ned in this story. He tells the truth in open court and loses his head for it. In the show, Daemon and Viserys play the same role as Joffrey. In the texts, Rhaenyra and Daemon are stand-ins for Joffrey. This is not meant to be a triumphant moment of girlbossery. This is an abuse of power and an act of terror.

All in all, I'm sorry to say, but Cersei wins this hands down. She is savvy enough in her choice of sperm donor and can maintain plausible deniability without looking like a goddamn clown and the entire circus to boot. She holds the capital and has access to all the emblems of state after Robert dies. In contrast, Rhaenyra is floundering across the Blackwater Bay, yelling at the dragon gargoyles that her children are trueborn.

Why is this issue important in the story?

a). No one has a problem with Jace being King.

If people had a problem with Joffrey being King, enough to go to war over it, it would be narratively inconsistent for them to just accept an obvious bastard as King. It would contradict the internal logic of the fictional world we're talking about. That's quite some level of suspension of disbelief just because some fans like Jace. This isn't about him being amiable or a good kid.

b). They're still Rhaenyra's sons / it's a Targaryen internal matter and concerns no one else / the concept of Jace being King doesn't personally affect anyone else, so why does anyone care?

Because it's the freaking law! The name of the crime Rhaenyra commits is high treason! Punishable by exile or death!

No, the crime is not adultery, it's not having bastard children, it's specifically putting said bastard children in line to the throne. In that, Rhaenyra is as guilty as Cersei is.

It absolutely does affect others, since Rhaenyra actively steals the inheritance of House Velaryon for Luke. How is that not a crime? I would even go so far as to say that Laenor and Corlys are complicit in it and should be punished as well.

Contrary to bafflingly-popular erroneous beliefs, the monarch can't just do whatever they want. Even in absolutist monarchies, the sovereign serves the vital social role of upholding the law and the rights of their subjects. Rhaenyra breaks said law by committing theft, murder, high treason and destabilizing the entire system of inheritance.

c) Rhaenyra breaks the social contract

Jock Locke argues for the "right of revolution" in the Second Treatise of Government. He writes that when the government acts against the interests of its citizens, then said citizens gain the right to overthrow it and replace it with an authority that will protect their interests.

I am not trying to impose 'progressive' understandings of the political process anachronistically, in a medieval fantasy; my thesis-statement is that we have already seen this concept at play within the world of ASOIAF: the Faith Militant uprising against Aenys I and Maegor due to their practices of incest and polygamy and Robert's Rebellion, caused by Rhaegar kidnapping a noble lady and Aerys II carrying out executions without due process. The people of Westeros are not unfamiliar with opposing monarchs who don't abide by the law.

The question of Rhaenyra having bastards is framed in a lot of commentary through the lens of her right as a woman to have extra-marital sex and not be demonised for it and to find fulfilling love within the constraints imposed on her by her station. While debating the personal individual freedom of women in a patriarchal feudal society is not to be side-lined, her fundamental fault is that she is demanding rights and exemptions for herself, while the rest of the country have to abide by an entirely different set of rules.

The laws of inheritance, as unjust as they may appear to our modern eyes, are in place to prevent crises of succession, violent conflicts or even large-scale wars from starting every time someone's estates are passed on. Illegitimate children suddenly gaining access to inheritances threatens the political and economical calculations that predicate many Westerosi marriages.

Imagine paying a handsome dowry for your daughter, just so her husband's bastard birthed by some high-born mistress to make use of his maternal family's resources and cheat your legitimate grandchildren out of theirs.

Imagine being married to some lord and now his random bastards threaten the inheritance of your lawful children. Because, hey, the Queen acts like this is fine! This is Catelyn Stark's worst nightmare.

You think you can just sue your husband? What a silly notion. You think you can sue the bastard claimants after your husband is dead? Tough luck, your liege lord may rule in their favour by taking a leaf out of Queen Rhaenyra's book. You think you can appeal to Queen Rhaenyra? How are you going to travel all the way to King's Landing? Good luck with that, maybe you're built different and don't die during this dangerous and expensive journey.

Is this fair for the illegitimate children? Hell no, but Rhaenyra and Viserys are not planning on reforming family law in any meaningful way, because they know what a hassle it would be and how much opposition it would meet!

It reeks of rights for me, but not for thee and I, for the life of me, don't understand the stronghold she has on the liberated feminist brigade.

and finally

d). The Green Coup is not dependent on the legitimacy of Rhaenyra's children.

No. But her committing high treason earns her an automatic disqualification from her right to rule, rendering her claim null and void.

alejandro being obvious about his crush on heather

I really don't understand the writer's reasoning for race swapping the Velaryon's, when every Velaryon is mistreated or cast aside by the all white Targaryen's. Literally everyone of them.

• Corlys - Is apparently so selfish he's willing to disregard all of his blood related family to put a white boy that is no relation to him on his ancestral seat just because he carries his last name? Even though there's plenty of other actual Velaryon's that carry the Velaryon name.

• Vaemond - Gets murdered for telling the truth, and not wanting Driftmark to go to someone who isn't a true Velaryon. I think they only added him calling Rhaenyra a whore after calling her son's bastards to try and make his death justifiable, as if calling someone a bad name = off with his head.

• Laena - Is married to Daemon but knows that she isn't his first choice, and if he had his way he'd be with his (white) niece. Is stuck by his side in Pentos even though he knows she wants to return home. Supposedly dies a *badass* dragon rider death, but I just saw a pregnant black woman dying in agony. Like that doesn't already happen in real life when black women are four times more likely to die in childbirth.

• Laenor - The cuckold of all cuckolds. In almost every scene of adult Laenor he's completely miserable. And apparently he too is willing to disregard all his trueborn family to put a white boy that isn't his on the Driftmark throne. And I don't find Rhaenyra to be some great LGBTQ ally by "letting" Laenor run away and permanently leave his home and family behind so he can be with his partner and she can remarry.

• Baela and Rhaena - Have actual Velaryon blood through their mother, get passed over so another white boy can get something he has no entitlement too. Baela would have had a slim chance of ending up queen because even if Rhaenyra became queen, the lords of Westeros would have been very unlikely to accept an illegitimate son as her heir. Rhaena could become lady of Driftmark but only as a consort through Luke, meaning if he died her claim to Driftmark would die with him.

I'm all for diversity and representation, but was the family who consistently gets walked all over the best choice to make POC?

I think they were aiming for liberal and inclusive, but that doesn't really work when your white characters use and exploit the black characters you've purposely made black.

Aegon II Targaryen in House of the Dragon Season 2 Trailer

WHY THIS FANDOM IS SO FUCKING WEIRD TOWARDS JAEHAERA TARGARYEN

TW: SCA, MURDER, CHILD MURDER AND CHILD DEATH, ABLEISM, SUICIDE MENT

People know that I love Jaehaera Targaryen and try to keep my mind in positive things about her, just reading headcanons and seeing art of her and Aegon, or her and her brothers and her mother. But I'm tired of even trying to do that, because this fandom is so weird about her, people still come after us at the minimum possibly of her surviving or at the first sight of someone saying they want her to live (the first two screenshots are from a Reddit post in which I shared an art or Jaehaera and Aegon III, that's all)

I'm tired of this "oh to keep her alive would be so cruel with her and Aegon" like they care for her.

Dude, she is just an innocent child, as much as Aegon III. They say "how can you want them married, her father killed his mother". And his father orchestrated the murder of her twin brother who led at the death of her mother. But we all know that that have nothing to do with her.

Both comments are from the same person 💀 they start like "she wouldn't survive because that would be so cruel" (yeah, it is not cruel killing a 10yo girl) but then they can't stand the possibility of someone liking her and wanting her to live and they talk in the most despicable way about her and how she deserved to be replaced as soon as she died.

Why is it so difficult to accept the fact that the little girl has supporters who want her to live? But they can't, they need to be an asshole for free.

Jaehaera is a child, prone to cry, but happy. Her murder was cruel and unnecessary. It has nothing to do with her being the daughter of his mother's killer or with her being a green.

Even if you doubt of Elio Garcia's words, it has never been stated for George that the reason to kill her was because she, as a green, needed to die.

Like why, what did the little girl to deserve to be minimized? Just to exist and be from the TG.

They really think that everyone is like them, that everyone is going to lose their mind for the possibility of a little child from the other team surviving.

Joffrey's death, even while the dance was still happening, was unnecessarily cruel and of course I won't get mad for the possibility of him surviving. The only criticism I would make about that is that it would be so biased to have 5 kids of the TB surviving and killing all the TG kids. But not because of that I will be like "he NEEDS to die" and will get mad for people wanting him to survive. If that happens it would be fair for me wanting Jaehaera to survive too.

And god, the ableism here is so unhinged.

It is so fucking ironic how they can be like "how can you like a character with two lines" and "she is a r*tarded child and she was never gonna give Aegon III heirs" like decide, she "only has two lines" or you can know everything about her, her mental state and how would have been her life?

And lets start with the cruelty toward her: it is so fucking weird

They want her to suffer like what, what did her to deserve that???

I will add more screenshots but I've reached my limit in this post 🫡

They have gone so far as to wish her little brother to be raped and murdered, to mess with the actress who plays Jaehaera (who is a little girl) and to compare her to rats or stray dogs.

People who know me knows that I am on the "separe between fiction and reality" side, but talking like this is too much, getting angry for people not thinking like you because they want her to live and commenting their posts mad because she NEEDS to die is too much, and messing with the actress who plays the girl is too much.

Everyone keeps wondering where exactly Alicent is going.

Isn't it obvious? She's heading to the reach to get Daeron.

If the writers won't introduce him she'll take care of it.

"Based on Fire & Blood by George R.R. Martin".

No, not really, more like loosely inspired.