「Ranpo, Mushi, Seishi」 – Tales From The Burgeoning World Of Japanese Mystery

OP you might be onto something.

However, i'm reading the pocket as a flap, which would naturally droop downwards, but is held up by multiple snaps (for ease of access). If bombs are just held up by that flap, it would put a lot of weight on both armpit stitch and snaps, so both would tear near-immediately. Instead, i'm thinking of rubber bands keeping the loosely-pinned (you made a great point there) grenades inside while enabling their weight to be tied to his arms, using however many connection points necessary.

I started typing with the idea of a white zipper instead of a flap to hide possible bulging, and to hide opening by making it look like a stitch, but now i'm not so sure… With snaps if needed you could probably just slide anything sticking out between them to pull it apart… Does that mean Kaiji would have multiple coats, depending how much stealth is needed?

also, all of this weight basically demands a lot of core strength not to fuck up his spine long-term, and as for 'good at dodgeball'… We're both thinking of Rock Lee from Naruto, aren't we.

just realised i never posted my kajii coat design here. anyways here it is!

i tried to make it make sense, but honestly i think a more realistic explanation is that he just has a pocket dimension in his coat /j

and here i was, thinking i'm immune to deranged baseless ranting.

so, within the BSD plot we're informed/led to believe that the 5 in question points to Decay of Angel (5 stages etc), with some extra Buddhism to pitch the idea to Fukuchi. The name itself is a reference to the Decay of the Angel book, which in itself is part of a series. One of the key characters, apparently, is a young manipulative sadistic orphan. In lieu of reaching 0% coherency, my suggestion is for the reader of this post to skim the synopsis with the idea of Touru <=> Fyodor, weaving in the vague theoryspace of Crime and Punishment being some form of resurrection, if only as the other way to look the same through the years. As a bonus, it would implicitly answer 'why not just put him in a box, forever', and if he's 2nd copy of (mafia) Dazai, where did the equivalent of the latter's suicidaility go? Is the stated end goal a red herring? Is it because he *can't* off himself? Or is that the red herring and it's actually just extension of C&P's 'specialest boy' angle? Is the sword Kladenets bit foreshadowing that the sword Bram was impaled on WOULD work? AAAA---

On top of that, the namedrop suggests Yukio Mishima exists in BSD (similarly to how ppl go 'Meursault? ah, Camus probably exists') - which also adds the possibility of 'fake reincarnation' leveraging some third party. …in fact, as i'm typing it, we are at ch112. At this point:

Sigma failed to die at the casino/interplay of All Men Are Equal and Sigma's ability means they'll wake up whenever it's plot-appropriate

Gogol failed to be sawed in half

Bram failed to die from having the sword pulled out (in anime) / the coin is still in flight (manga)

Fukuchi failed to die(?) as per the 'two hours later' (in anime) / the coin is still in flight (manga)

Dostoy [COPIUM OVERDOSE]

at this point i want Fukuchi to be k, let's see what themes of the story will do with a traumatized vet.

also: yep, the Untold Origins play sounds as ridicious as last time. Are we sure this isn't a mix of introducing idea of ability users = bad (but also: 'fallen' angels hiding in the normie populace), while Dostoy is tooting his own horn? I'd rather if it wasn't tho, and at least pulled double duty re: Fukuchi. Then it makes more sense to use theater specifically.

re: stars/singularities, isn't it stated… somewhere… that it's possible for one ability to into a singularity, by itself? As in, a star collapsing into a black hole?

Fourth (Third is here):

Tumblr

あり^^

Third (Second is here): Second (first is here): There are a few things that just won't leave my head, I had to write them down (my friends

last but not the least

I've been reading bsd writers' works

I strongly recommend you do the same, they're absolutely magnificent

Sometimes you can even see obvious references

Like this one

I was reading Doppo's River Mist and other stories

I think Dead Apple is mostly inspired by it

one of the stories is named The Stars

it's about two stars in the sky who are in love, and come down to earth to talk in the garden of an author, in form of humans

Look at this part

sounding familiar?

No?

Ability Users are Fallen Angels,

Abilities themselves are Fallen Stars

It's even true scientifically

Remember the 'Singularity' mentioned?

Astronomically, a singularity can be formed by two gigantic celestial bodies (such as stars) crashing into eachother, resulting in the corruption of matter, forming something with infinite mass and zero volume, which we call "singularity" (yeah my study field's math/physics lol)

that's what was done in Dead Apple

Combining two stars

I love Kafka

#everything is a fucking lie from both sides at this point

No it isn't. The product defends itself.

So is everyone gonna just ignore the fact that the leaked Document that PM sent over to the Union states that Vellmori was the one to resign herself and was the one who didn't want the info being spread around?

Like, I'm not saying PM handled this shit well, because they absolutely didn't, but the whole thing of her being fired is apparently just a straight up fucking lie.

And, if the Document PM sent to the Union is to be trusted (which, if they lied about that, I imagine that would be even more legal trouble than is worth for them with all this shit going on), that means that everyone being mad at PM for not saying anything more is being mad at them for Following Vellmori's Wishes.

Again, I'm not saying that PM handled Any of this well. They absolutely should have made sure that Vellmori didn't feel so threatened that she felt the need to resign. They absolutely fucked up in that department.

But the main thing people focused on, Vellmori's firing, allegedly just wasn't even real.

What the fuck is even going on anymore.

//Btw, here's the source for the translation of the Certificate of Contents that PM sent to the Union and which was later leaked.

the actual 5) get (shadow)banned from everywhere for being irritating

How to have a conversation about a topic you’re not interested in or don’t know anything about:

Listen to what the other person has to say about the topic.

Ask a question about what they said. Asking them to clarify or explain something you don’t understand is great, but any question will do. All else fails, ask them to explain what they like about some part of the topic.

Listen to their responses and go back to step 2.

Do this until 5-15 minutes has passed, then change the subject to a topic of your interest, unless you are actually interested in learning more on this subject, in which case, go on for as long as you like.

Sometimes, they will say something like “I’m sorry to blather on about [topic].” This is an attempt at a conversational dismount. You can either say “no, it was fascinating, thanks” and then bring up your own topic, or you can say “no, it’s fascinating, please keep going” if you want to keep hearing about their topic. Note the tense difference (past -> moving on, present -> keep going).

I just thought I’d write a script for this, because someone who can’t / won’t do this came up in a Captain Awkward column, and listening about topics you have no interest in is a really useful skill to have and not often explicitly taught, particularly to boys and men.

>#i'm trying to get into polish poetry especially these days so?? thanks for reminding me i wanted to read Leopold Staff's collection Sny o Potędze ('Dreams of Might'?), on the grounds of being somewhat Nietzsche-flavored. and to find something of Miron Białoszewski that isn't the genuinely delightful Karuzela z madonnami (The Merry-Go-Round with Madonnas). i do not get the idea of reading poetry in anything but the source language so please send a link to translation(s?) of Białoszewski if you find some - i wanna boggle at the shenanigans edit: upon trying to find anything, the best something so far is this.

Gonna launch a bookclub + videoclub here soon, get ready 🎪

not even about Fitzgerald later popping back up again for Eyes of God, because EoG was introduced more-or-less just before being used vs Dostoy. But here's the thing: in that spot instead of Fitzgerald we could have introduced another character who is as dead-set on Agency's innocence (instead of him 'betting on the winning side') and the maneuvers wouldn't change. But because of Bungou Special there was a route to reuse a not-dead character. That Odasaku looms over the plot so hard is imo signaling how much impact a death should have. And i can't help but be reminded of an interview with the writer Harlan Ellison, in which he goes on at length how tv made violence palpable for mass consumption and death cheap - exhibit A: this thread.

Re: Incongruent details: the saddest thing is that all it took was some extra moves to get from point A to B, the same way fanfic writers can make characters do anything as long as the setup for them changing in the desired direction is there. Like okay, hand injury isn't there but in the anime shoulder injury looked like a graze, but in the manga it was sold harder. So instead of forcing it with a retcon which due to anime is even more obvious (fr we probably wouldn't even notice), roll with the punches and swipe theories go "actually the gunshot is more disabling"/"a wild Yosano (PM medic would also work but that would require preestablishing) appears!" and route to the same outcome.

Like, it's impossible to control one's heartbeat and i will never forget that one scanlation group did the math on "a chair dropped from the Sky Casino would be like a bomb" and proved Asagiri can't do physics. We're already past point of giving a shit to these inaccuracies - but on top of mentioned the results of retcons go against the themes of the story.

Not disagreeing. Commiserating. It's not that we're having a Boring Invincible Hero on our hands, it's that he gets to expouse absurdism and how everything is unpredictable and random happenstance. Dazai Eating Shit and recovering while Dostoy runs out of fallbacks because he never had any: works better. The canon wants to be this, but Dazai was waaaaaay to much zest to sell how he didn't do shit b/c he couldn't do shit. Behavior flip of Dostoy can be read both as 'this is how he's actually like' and 'absolutely tired and fed up with this shit'. That Dazai lacks anything similar makes things worse. ....at this rate we will, in fact, disassemble how this storytelling fails.

Like, imagine we're doing play-by-play from the anime, but instead of heli crash undoubtedly caused by Dostoy trying and failing to wrest the controls not matter how doomed, while we watch it happen from the outside directly after 'you need to control everything' bit... we're watching it happen from inside of the helicopter, POV'd as a One Desperate Vampirized Guard vs Global Terrorist, Demon of the North. Sure, the steel pike (while we're at it: why.) kind of throws a wrench in the framing, but. The result would look less like Dazai mindgaming Dostoy into anime outcome instead of waiting for the poison to off him something something controlling every variable; i did mention 'if they're even poisoned' but as characters, they should know. It would look more like the unpredictable action of an ally (Ranpo->Bram or just the guard themselves having to sit there and listen to this shitshow). Bonus points for both favoring relevancy of non-ability users and 'desperate people are the strongest' bit... because it ain't happening.

Side note on main(?): you mentioning the plan implies Nikolai would expect it to work; him not thinking that creates a cool foil as 200% improvisation guy - but that's limited by options at your disposal. Maybe it's just extra wriggle room in case two anime geniuses do something too ridiculous to predict. Maybe he even it's a fallback in case the ability is resurrection.

Or just 'why not' (also: the contrivance of him being in the right place at a right time implies he was told what would happen after his death): Dostoy's captured, Nikolai is considered dead, there is some time to grab the guy that produces fun reactions. ....in fact, Sigma would cover how Nikolai knows about everything in Meursault. yes yes Overcoat is OP but this does bolster the setup.

Oh wow…so the BSD anime ending wasn’t an anime-only original after all, because it looks like the manga just followed suit.

What a shame. The manga ending is just as terrible as the anime’s and we’re right back in the same place we were a couple months ago. I really can’t hide my negativity about this because this storytelling decision makes everything feel like a letdown anticlimax.

The cope has run out. Really I’m just super upset that Fyodor is still going to die in the most contrived and embarrassing way possible while Sigma lays dead on the floor and Dazai makes his obligatory “actually there was no danger or emotional stakes all along and I pulled this plan out of my ass” speech. Yet again, Dazai acts as a convenient narrative crutch for whenever Asagiri needs to get out of a corner and culminates an anticipated confrontation in the most typical way imaginable.

BSD really is full of so many twists and surprises! Every time I think the plot is going to culminate in something meaningful, I am let down by a barrage of contrived nonsense! Asagiri is truly a genius of storytelling! Who cares about emotions and relationships between characters when you can just say SIKE! And reveal that it was an elaborate ruse all along, ruining the tension and making the buildup to that moment effectively meaningless!

Hey, at least the manga has better art though. The story might’ve sucked, but at least all of the characters looked good while sucking.

I just read this reddit comment about yesterday's staff post and ... 100%

People in the notes of the post don't seem to understand how massive of a move this is. Sure, this is not the Tuileries palace storming, nor the execution of Louis XVI, but it very well could be Tumblr's storming of the Bastille.

See, what happened yesterday was a bunch of trans staffers very politely saying "our boss is full of crap, what he is doing is absolutely not ok", and also "the official line he had been posting narrative of everything being peachy with moderation is bullshit, we acknowledge the systemic problem, and we demand addressing it ASAP".

Now, this has probably been possible just because of the exceptional circumstances: Louis XVI (Matt) is on vacation on his summer palace, and the person who he had left in charge of the court has refused to order the army to quell the internal strife... so they have stormed the Bastille to ask for the abolition of the ancient regime. Mind you, that doesn't mean we are at a point where they are in the middle of a revolutionary coup to create the Paris Commune: that's not in the cards right now. This is more about the people rioting to demand the king powers to have checks and balances. this is about demanding a constitutional monarchy instead of the current absolute king.

The people in the notes don't seem to understand the exceptional situation that the post creates. We are at a point where Matt Mullenweg has been called out by his own employees. His company, in his absence, had allowed his employees to break with the unified PR narrative that usually is forced to follow whatever path the CEO points to.

Now Louis XVI is in a peculiar position. His Authority had not only been questioned by the Paris rabble (us), but now he also had a regiment of elite grenadiers (1er Régiment du Trans Guards) openly in revolt and siding with the people of Paris. They are not firing at the royal palace, but they are saying "you know what? The people in the streets are right. We are not firing at them, your majesty". So Matt's next move is crucial. As I see it, there are several possibilities:

- the king / Matt acknowledges he had been in the wrong (either honestly or just because he doesn't feel powerful enough to win a civil war), accepts to get his powers limited, and allows some partial reform to address people's demands. This is obviously the best option for my friends still working for Tumblr. That doesn't mean tumblr would become a queer communist paradise, but at least we would see things improving.

- the king refuses to engage: he moves the court to another city (names a new Tumblr CEO reporting to him) and move the army to Paris to repress the rebellion (fires the people behind the post, double down in the current moderation policies). Things keep being the same, but without the people who asked for improvements.

- the king gets fed up of having to deal with ungrateful rabble and decides to just make an example out of Paris and orders the army to reprise the St. Bartholomew night, but on Paris population this time. This would be Matt firing everyone involved and closing Tumblr two months from now.

Right now, I wouldn't know which of these three options is more probable. Matt has been very quiet since yesterday, and whatever he posts next would be a big signal of how he is going to react to this development of The Situation.

two in one theory... i am listening very intently if you ever feel up to share it!!

Alright, so this is gonna be... as close to an Abridged explanation of the theory as I can make, because if I went off on everything about it I would end up writing a whole dissertation or five hour video essay script on this shit.

There are gonna be three main sections to this post - Hong Lu's Daiyuisms, Hong Lu's Themes of Identity and how that connects to the concept of Two in One, and the Daiyu-Baoyu theory itself.

Strap in folks.

Hong Lu's Daiyuisms

If you know anything about my theories in the earlier days of Limbus, you might know that I'm one of the very few people who was convinced Hong Lu is actually Daiyu, due to some evidence I found personally compelling. This has not changed, as we've only gotten just as much extra evidence to this as we have to him being Baoyu. So let me just speedrun through some of these points.

The Fucking Jade Eye

Ok hear me out. This is maybe the least important piece of evidence but I can never stop thinking about it. Hong Lu's jade eye? Not actually fully blue! If you look closely on most of his sprites, you can see that he actually has sectoral heterochromia, meaning his jade eye is both blue and black.

Daiyu's name, quite literally, translates to blue-black jade.

Now, you could claim that this is merely meant to be an easter egg reference to her, but... is that really Project Moon's style? After all, when people speculated on Don Quixote being Sancho or a Bloodfiend partially based on her appearance all the way back since near launch, they turned out to be right.

Hong Lu's Father

As of now, there is only one instance of Hong Lu referencing his Father in Limbus, and it's a voiceline from his Base Identity:

Now, if you know anything about DOTRC, this should already be raising some flags, because if Hong Lu was just Baoyu, he would not fucking talk like that about his Father.

In the book, Baoyu is consistently shown to be afraid of his Father, for a good reason mind you, as he's his main abuser. Baoyu would not be looking forward to introducing his friends to that man.

Even if Hong Lu was trying to downplay the abuse he's recieved, this would still not fit his pattern of behavior. When topics that genuinely bother Hong Lu come up, such as what could make him distort or how rich people would enjoy gifts made of humans, he immediately pivots and tries to avoid the topic at all cost. He would not bring up his main abuser in such a lighthearted manner, he would avoid bringing him up at all cost.

However, there is a character in DOTRC which does in fact have a more positive relationship to her Father, and would likely be the one with an opinion such as that - Daiyu. Daiyu loves her Father, and when he dies she completely disappears from the story for a bit to attend his funeral. If there was anyone who would be excited to introduce their friends to their Father, it'd be Daiyu.

Lasso Hong Lu's Corrosion

I made a whole seperate post about this, but I might as well mention it here as well for the sake of completion. The design choices made for Hong Lu which are missing for Faust are very, very Daiyu-coded.

For one, not only does Hong Lu completely turn into a flower, unlike Faust, his horse also gains a flower in its mouth. For those whose knowledge of DOTRC is zero to none, Daiyu is a reincarnation of a Flower given sentience due to being watered by the Jade. I don't think I have to be the one to connect the dots between those two pieces of info for you.

The second is how the halters become a noose for Hong Lu. This, too, is a very Daiyu thing - Rose Hunter as an Abnormality represents the inability to escape one's fate, and Daiyu's fate is to die - the Jia Family arranging a marriage between Baoyu and Baochai leads to Daiyu falling deathly ill, which in itself could be considered a part of her repaying her Debt of Tears - the debt she swore to repay to the Jade/Baoyu when she was still a Flower.

The hilarity of the fact that this E.G.O came out in the same update as Hong Lu being called Baoyu in-story is not lost on me.

Rose Sign Abnormality Log

The third Log for Rose Sign ends in a very peculiar way.

There's multiple ways one can tie Hong Lu's odd reluctance to talk about flowers and the petals. One is the obvious "he's being reminded of Daiyu because she was a Flower" connection, but there's another one.

One of the most commonly potrayed images of Daiyu relates to a scene in DOTRC where she buries fallen flower petals, weeping for and lamenting the mortality of the flowers and herself. Hong Lu's reaction here to his fellow Sinners being reduced to nothing but petals upon Rose Sign's death feels like a notable parallel to Daiyu's flower burial scene.

Like literally everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu

The title for this is a bit of an exaggeration, but at the same time. I'm serious. Kurokumo Hong Lu is perhaps the most Daiyu Identity out of all the Hong Lu Identities we have, and the way he is designed to stand out among them further makes me go insane.

Kurokumo Hong Lu's most defining trait is his attitude - he often complains about his position and how authority treats him, though he doesn't really act out against them in any major way outside of making snarky or sarcastic remarks.

This is, frankly, an extremely Daiyu thing to do. Daiyu is one of the few characters who audibly complains about her treatment in the household. For example she complains about not being given as many opportunities to show off her poetry skills as her male peers are, and she recognises how, when all the girls in the family are given flowers, she's the last one to recieve them and thus is stripped of the ability to pick, being only given the leftovers.

Then there's the whole. Everything about Kurokumo Hong Lu's visual design. Because once you realize just how Daiyu-like the Identity is, you realize just how weird he is compared to other Hong Lu Identities. I mean just look how he compares to his other Identities.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity with a blue tint to his hair in the combat sprite rather than the usual purple.

He's the only Hong Lu Identity whose hairtie is a ribbon rather than a jade ring (Liu Hong Lu technically has the ribbon in his post-uptie art, but he doesn't have it in his combat sprite so I'm not counting him).

He's the only Hong Lu Identity to not be smiling in his combat sprites.

And he's the only Hong Lu Identity (and one of only four Identities in the game) whose Idle sprite has its body facing away from the opponent rather than facing towards them.

All of those combine to make him stand out like a sore thumb in a Hong Lu Identity lineup in a way that makes it feel intentional, especially since he's also the only Hong Lu Identity with that kind of notable attitude towards authority. Other Hong Lu Identities are either obedient, don't express any opinion, or just straight up are the authority.

The Baoyu reveal is framed in a very weird way

This is, admittedly, less of a Daiyuism and more of a not-Baoyuism, but I thought it'd be important to mention nonetheless.

There are a lot of things about Canto 7's reveal of Hong Lu's name being Baoyu that are very strange, especially compared to how the Canto frames Don Quixote's own reveal of actually being Sancho.

For one, the timing itself - why is such an important piece of info being revealed so early? Again, compare to Donqui - she was revealed to be a Bloodfiend in the Intervallo right before Canto 7, and the Sancho reveal only came in the second half of the Canto.

For two, the framing - Donqui's reveals are treated as what they are, Major Reveals. The Baoyu reveal on the other hand happens in a single off-handed line, with nobody reacting to it in any way. Neither Hong Lu nor the other Sinners seem to hear it after all.

And mind you, it's not like Limbus is opposed to giving us important information in off-handed lines - far from it in fact. Project Moon loves shoving little bits of foreshadowing and reveals you don't realize are reveals until way later in these kinds of off-handed lines. But the way those lines are treated is still very different to how the Baoyu reveal is treated.

Usually, when there's foreshadowing in off-handed lines, it's usually either vague enough to be something a character could say regardless of context (see Yi Sang getting hung up on the Sedatives bit in Canto 2 or Ishmael's comment about Syndicates pretending to be Families foreshadowing her own history with the Middle via Queequeg) or something that is in the middle of a scene that distracts from what is actually being said (like Hong Lu's distortion foreshadowing being in the middle of an important infodump or most of everything in Canto 2 being surrounded by a comedic tone).

None of this is present for the Baoyu reveal. There's nothing to distract you from this information, as the scene is already focused on discussing Hong Lu, meaning you're already likely to be paying attention to what is being said about him. There's also no vagueness about it, there's no way you can brush it off since not only are Wei and Xichun newly introduced characters, but it's a whole ass clearcut namedrop.

The only way I can justify that reveal being there in the form it takes is that it in itself is the distraction. Think about it. Didn't I point it out earlier that this reveal came in the same update as the E.G.O with an extremely Daiyu-coded corrosion design? Wouldn't it make sense for that reveal to be there to lower your guard, make you think you resolved that mystery, only to later on reveal it wasn't the whole story after all?

Hong Lu's Themes of Identity

So this section is a bit more vague than the Daiyuism section, because Hong Lu is the type of guy to just Say Shit all the time. It's basically just. Anything that I find relevant to the idea of Hong Lu's Identity being more complex than him just being a random guy using a pseudonym, with some (but maybe not all) of them directly tying to the idea of Two in One.

"Which one is the real you?"

There are currently two seperate scenes where Hong Lu muses on the idea of someone's identity being in some way vague or obscured.

Is Dante the person or the clock? Is the dreamer the one in the dream or the one who wakes from it? Which you is the real you? Does it even matter if that you will flutter away in the end?

This idea of there being one true self. That even if there are two, there is only one of them that is actually you. Curious, right?

Face-changing dance

During the Canto 2 scene where everyone gives their reasons for whether or not they'd be a good pick for being the one to dance, Hong Lu says this.

Bian lian is a kind of dance literally translated as "face-changing". It involves rapid changes between various masks and make-up to represent different emotions or characters.

Now, it's no secret that Hong Lu is a great actor, as we see in Canto 4, and Canto 7 shows how the comparison to theatre and actors can be used to symbolize one's performance of identity, as it does for Sancho and her Don Quixote persona.

Mind you, this reveal comes in the same scene as Sinclair's dance invoking the image of a bonfire burning all through the night according to the Mariachis, a clear foreshadowing to Canto 3 and the Literal burning down of Sinclair's home.

Hong Lu knowing bian lian could be further foreshadowing to his own skills in deception, and how he too is a sort of actor, not unlike Don Quixote. On the other hand however, it could also be a more literal foreshadowing, that he (Baoyu) Quite Literally changed his face. We won't know until Canto 8, but it is an option you know.

The HamHamPangPang dish(es)

For those who don't know, here is a list of the Sinner-themed dishes that were available at HamHamPangPang.

Now, chances are, not all of them have deep meanings. I don't think there's much of a deep meaning to Heathcliff and Ishmael's dishes, I think PJM just legit don't know much about British/American cuisine so they just picked something recogniseable.

However, not all of them are meaningless picks either. Ryoshu, likely a mother, has a meal literally called "parent-and-child donburi". Don Quixote, a Bloodfiend, has a garlic-based dish. These were clearly done on purpose.

So, what does it say that Hong Lu's dish is actually two different dishes? That he's the only one whose dish is two different dishes? And it's not like the two are in some way inherently connected, since they're of completely different cuisines. Japchae is a Korean dish, not Chinese like the Mandarin rolls.

And just in case you weren't convinced that Hong Lu's choice of dishes is purposeful - another name for Mandarin rolls is flower buns, and one of the special occasions japchae is commonly served for is weddings. If you had read through the Daiyuisms section and somehow have no idea what the significance of that is, I don't know what to tell you.

The Daiyu-Baoyu Theory (finally)

So. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could still be Daiyu despite being revealed as Baoyu. I gave some evidence for why I think Hong Lu could be a Two in One deal, or that at the very least there's something more complex going on with his identity. But let's discuss the theory itself, how it would recontextualize certain things, and why I think it's an extremely fitting an thematically resonant direction for Hong Lu's Canto to go in.

The Theory

Here's what I speculate is going on.

Daiyu, just like in DOTRC, is someone who was taken in into the Jia Household rather than born in it, and who strongly connected with Baoyu upon meeting him. The two would end up forming a bond strong enough that they would be willing to die for one another (or, if they're in particularly argumentative moods, to kill themselves just to force the other to have to live a long life grieving over them - this is an actual argument they have in DOTRC and I pray to god this is adapted into Limbus because it's too fucking funny).

At some point, Baoyu either dies or is brought to near death, likely through the same circumstances as in DOTRC - being beaten by his Father. To save him, his memories and consciousness would be transferred to his eye, a process not dissimilar to the one Xichun brings up in Canto 7, and implanted into Daiyu's body, causing them to become a vessel for Baoyu. This would be how Hong Lu as he is now is created.

All of the above is the main basis for this theory. Everything else that I might speculate about, such as the exact nature of the two's relationship, Daiyu's more exact background and personality, how their pre-reincarnation lives could be adapted - all of those are things that are purely speculative and ones that I don't really expect to be actually fulfilled. The only bits that I am sure are likely to be true is what I laid out above.

So... what does it all mean for the future? I'm glad you asked!

The Recontextualization

Here's a collection of just a couple of things that Hong Lu has said or is depicted as that would be heavily recontextualized if this theory ends up being true.

Hong Lu surviving despite claiming he didn't fight back when his siblings first tried to kill him: With the context that he used to be two seperate people, the answer to how he survived is made very simple. Baoyu is the one who wasn't fighting back. Daiyu, however, could have still protected him in turn.

The red ribbon on Hong Lu's weapon: There is only one other Sinner who has a similar decoration on their weapon - Ryoshu, who also has a red ribbon on her sword, which could be easily connected to Yuzuki and her death. With the context of Hong Lu being Baoyu occupying Daiyu's body and thus effectively rendering their self non-existent, the red ribbon could be a parallel symbol - a symbol of Daiyu and their 'death'.

How Hong Lu treats his weapon in his base E.G.O: The way Hong Lu holds his weapon in the illustration is more like he's cradling another person. This could be a representation of how he feels about Daiyu's situation. Likewise, in the attack animation, he's not really attacking with the weapon itself, is he? He's simply using it to direct a ribbon (which in itself is missing in the illustration), the part that is actually the attack. If the weapon in the base E.G.O represents Daiyu, this could be a parallel to how Baoyu feels like he's merely directing Daiyu's body to attack, rather than being the one actually attacking.

The duality of Hong Lu IDs: There is a notable pattern among Hong Lu IDs, and that is the focus on his attitude to violence. When he's in a situation where he's obedient towards his Family, he's either uninterested in violence, bored of it, or otherwise given no other choice but to use it as a reprieve from boredom. However, when he's in a situation where he's disconnected from his Family or otherwise questioning the status quo, he's shown to not only be much more aggressive and violent, but to outright enjoy it. With the context of Hong Lu being composed of two people, this duality could represent each of his components - the obedient and violence-averse being more Baoyu-like, while the questioning and violence-favoring being more Daiyu-like.

So, there's a bunch of stuff that would be given new meaning under the premise of this theory being true. But now, what about the future? What would this theory mean for the themes and ending of Canto 8?

The Resolution

I believe this is how the Daiyu-Baoyu theory will affect Canto 8.

At some point, whether before or during the Canto, it will be revealed that Hong Lu is both Daiyu and Baoyu. There will be an attempt to seperate the two, perhaps to implant Baoyu into a more fitting, more Jia Family-approved Vessel. Perhaps because the 'arranged marriage' from DOTRC could be adapted into something more... let's say Fear and Hunger kind of marriage rather than traditional marriage.

This will leave Hong Lu to be returned to their state as Daiyu, who will be revealed to be a very different person to what the Sinners knew Hong Lu as. There is a non-zero chance that Daiyu will be unable to hear Dante or be revived by them due to the one who signed the contract being Baoyu, and so they could end up acting as an uncontrollable ally unit not unlike Xichun in Canto 7.

The climax would then be Daiyu and Baoyu reuniting and being unwilling to part with each other again, even for the sake of returning to being the fake persona that is Hong Lu, leading to a potential duo boss fight/distortion boss fight/duo distortion boss fight.

The ending would be the two of them deciding to embrace their new identity as Hong Lu and truly becoming one, discarding their pasts and the selves that had been forced on them by the Jia Family. This ending would have a twofold meaning regarding how it connects to the DOTRC adaptation.

One - it would be a direct parallel to the ending of DOTRC where Baoyu leaves to become a monk. By becoming Hong Lu and discaring his previous identities, he'd be leaving behind the earthly attachments inherent to being Baoyu and Daiyu and become spiritually whole.

Two - it would be a reflection of the major theme of DOTRC, that being "Truth becomes fiction when the fiction's true. Real becomes not-real when the unreal's real." Hong Lu, as a person, is a 'fake' persona used by the 'real' Baoyu and Daiyu. However, by discarding those two identities and deciding to just be Hong Lu, the fiction of his existence becomes the truth, while his former real selves become not real.

Conclusion?

I could honestly just keep going with this post, but I think I'm going to stop myself here before I'm forced to find out what tumblr's character limit on posts is. Believe me, I was trying to be brief, and still this post is. This fucking long.

I hope this explains why this theory has been the subject of my brainrot for the past however long, and why I feel like it's surprisingly plausible despite being as deranged as it is.

Godspeed and godbless, I have classes tomorrow and I'm spending my time on this.

Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis

Woo, first post, and its about Heathcliff. Alright straight to the point. Its as the title says, this is a Sin Analysis on all of Heathcliff’s IDs. This was made awhile ago before R Corp. Meursault was revealed. And yes, that does somewhat have something to do with R Corp. Heath. Anyway, this was made using @lu-is-not-ok‘s guide to Sin Analysis….mainly because its much more in-depth than what I could have done on my own. This doesn’t include any E.G.O. because my brain can only do so much. But here it is, my official Heathcliff ID Sin Analysis and how R Corp. Heath has the weirdest Sin affinities when looking at the ID in this light.

LCB Sinner Heathcliff

Envy - Heathcliff’s whole thing is Revenge. His bat has Revenge written on it, clearly showing that getting revenge is his thing. This sin showcases that he wants to get revenge on someone, something or multiple people/things. Due to him being a backstreets kid, he most likely wants revenge on the rich, though its also possible, he wants revenge on whatever got him into his position as a Sinner. This is unlikely to be Catherine due to his last sin affinity.

Wrath - Wrath is about as obvious as Envy. Heathcliff was born in the backstreets and grew up there. His Wrath is his want to defy the rich and prove that even those born in the backstreets can be as good as them, similar to Rodion.

Lust - Lust once again, is obvious. In all honesty, base Heathcliff has pretty basic and obvious sin affinities. The reason that Heathcliff has a Lust sin affinity is due to his want to be with Catherine again.

N Corp. Kleinhammer Heathcliff

Envy - N Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Envy can be seen in two ways. First is the same as Base Heathcliff. He wants to get revenge on the rich for being a backstreets kid. The other is a sort of distorted want for revenge against those with prosthetics. This would fall in line with N Corps. Ideals, but this also falls in line with another N Corp. ID, N Corp. Faust. NFaust also has envy as one of her sins. N Corp. Faust seemingly has no reason to want revenge on anything, but she could want a form of retribution against those with prosthetics, making N Corp. Heathcliff have the same reasoning behind his Envy sin affinity.

Gloom - N Corp. Heathcliff’s Gloom sin affinity represents his past. This version of Heathcliff seems to be much more sad and depressed than most of Heathcliff’s IDs. This is due to both the events that led to his separation with Catherine and his current situation, that being his brainwashing at N Corps. hands. He actively fights against the brainwashing but is slowly failing, as seen through multiple of his voice lines and dialogue.

Lust - Lust for N Corp. Heathcliff would actually be the same as Base Heathcliff. It represents his want and desire to return to Catherine. He directly calls out to them on his Death and even mentions in his Extra Conditions dialogue, that if he keeps this up he will be able to go back one day, almost certainly meaning his want to be with Catherine again.

Shi Association South Section 5 Heathcliff

Lust - Shi Heathcliff is interesting as he shares all the same sin affinities as Base Heathcliff but reversed. Lust for Shi Heathcliff seems to represent his Lust for combat and death, similar to Ryoshu. He doesn’t seem to have any desire to be with Catherine again, if this version of him ever met or was with them in the first place.

Wrath - Shi Heathcliff’s version of Wrath could represent that he doesn’t really like how the Shi operate. He prefers getting personal with his kills and gets bored with the typical fast kills. He would rather do his own thing than actually be an assassin.

Envy - Shi Heathcliff still has a bit of his Revenge attributes in him. He mentions how he will make another Shi member pay for having slept through their alarm. This shows that this aspect of him still exists but to a much lesser degree than his other IDs. Its likely that Shi Heathcliff is still a backstreets kid but it isnt made clear if he wants the same revenge on the rich as his Base ID does.

R Corp. 4th Pack Rabbit Heathcliff

Wrath - Wrath is interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff, as it almost seems to be the opposite of him. He doesn’t care about doing anything other than fight, which is exactly what he exists for as a R Corp. soldier. He likes what he does so its interesting that he has a sin that represents defiance.

Gluttony - Gluttony in context of R Corp. Heathcliff is similar to Lust for Shi Heathcliff. They both want more combat, they want to fight and kill more enemies. R Corp. Heathcliff is a soldier, his existence is combat, even more so due to him most likely being one of R Corps. Clone soldiers.

Envy - Envy is also interesting for R Corp. Heathcliff. Due to him most likely being a clone, he shouldn’t have any reason to want revenge or retribution for anything done to him. He almost certainly doesn’t want to be with Catherine and definitely doesn’t even know who they are. He has everything he wants or cares about. 

Its interesting that R Corp. Heathcliff has two sin affinities that seem to go against his existence. Maybe this is an example of our version of a sinner bleeding into a mirror worlds version, meaning that R Corp. Heathcliff’s version of Wrath and Envy are actually Base Heathcliff’s.

Addendum: 7/11/23 - Since originally writing this, R Corp. Meursault has been revealed, and through his trailer, a pseudo-confirmation that the R Corp. IDs are indeed clones…….which brings in so many other questions when it comes to them, but does make what i said about RHeathcliff, his sin affinities and him being a clone a bit more concrete……it makes it more confusing that he has these affinities since hes a clone and doesnt/shouldnt care about things the other Heath IDs do.

Lobotomy E.G.O::Sunshower Heathcliff

Envy - Envy for Sunshower Heathcliff represents his disdain for Technology. As a member of the Technology Liberation Alliance, he wishes to “liberate” all technology and return to a time before it. But he doesn’t seem to truly care about this.

Gloom - Gloom is easy to understand for Sunshower Heathcliff. All of his friends have died in some way. He doesn’t have anyone and is alone. He roamed the backstreets before joining the TLA and currently does. Its also possible that parts of his sadness are brought about by his E.G.O equipment, as he mentions having cold and dark feelings rush into him when he first put on the E.G.O equipment.

Sloth - Sloth is also easy. Sunshower Heathcliff mentions sleep and sleeping a lot. He is constantly thinking about falling asleep or finding some dark alleyway to stay in, away from everything and everyone else. He doesn’t truly care about anything other than sleeping, after the death of his friends.

Desire (lust) to wait (sloth) so that curses (gloom) accumulate to cause more damage (wrath)? Nonsense straight out of Persona 5, with biding one's time specifically so that revenge will be sweeter. Also lol that mechanically he's what is labeled as buddha murti but what looks like khakkhara. Imagery of Heathcliff looking like a guy but being merely a staff to bonk the deserving(?).

The corrosion line kind of reinforces the 'playing the long game' take: "The wheel of samsara turns once." As in, it turns and the target is dead - but with it, there is no long game to play anymore, so (the reason to continue) Heathcliff is not more as well.

"I have not broken your heart - you have broken it; and in breaking it, you have broken mine."

is the quote that comes to mind, tho i'm sure someone who actually read it can pull out something much better ;^) Does that mean the quote is/will be a feather Cathy?

as for resistances: the pattern of weak-to-envy continues, in that someone else would have to sit his ass down and explain that this notion makes the world worse (instead of being to the point about it). Lust resist because it's the sort of harebrained plan that's less do-gooding and more feel-good (partially about one's inaction/inability to act). Light sloth resist as most of the time this mindset is in snooze mode ;D ...and also, why are they're equal? balancing aside maybe because if proportions are off, the behavior/vibe changes? Gloom it up too hard and it's just whining without doing anything at all. Wrath it up and retaliation is immediate. Lust it up and it's less karma themed and more just pummeling the target. Sloth it up and one ignores the opportunity to take revenge, blinded by despondency?

Oh this Sin Cost for Heathcliff's Ya Śūnyatā Tad Rūpam is juicy. I don't have the brainpower for in-depth analysis right now but.

The pairs of opposites in Wrath-Sloth and Lust-Gloom. The sheer addition of Wrath and Gloom compared to Outis's. The lack of Pride compared to Outis's. It's just so.