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Nowhere, Black Sorrow and an interpretation of Ivan's love

Gonna talk a bit about Ivan's emotional state in Nowhere and how it… is mostly right there in Black Sorrow too, just in a slightly more matured manner. I've got some similarities and differences I wanna highlight!

(It'd be good to read my lil initial impressions on the release of Nowhere first, tho!)

Firstly, the key thing about interpreting the content of Nowhere is that it's a private song. Written for Ivan himself, composed with no outside input, never meant for public performance. Therefore, in it, we can trust that Ivan is expressing himself as freely as he can (through the lens of his stunted emotional development yet strong ability to look inward and rationalize, but still), which is a very rare occurrence, given that one of his biggest traits is being private and cagey. The song Nowhere is raw emotion for a change, an open display of his head and heart.

And it sounds like just that. We hear the result of Ivan trying a romantic, ballad-like love song, starting with that and presumably just scrapping it for the subsequent melodic, hopeless freestyle rap session about his loneliness, pain, sense of being fundamentally unlovable/unwanted, belief that his existence is devoid of value and his pessimism.

But the love he knows he feels for Till IS there, fantastically represented by the ballad-like part that stays in the background for the rest of Nowhere. And it's recognized for what it is. 

… which is a big deal in itself!! Ivan talks down on his capacity for love a lot and would later call it a "shallow emotion", but he's way too analytical and knows himself too well to be avoiding that love is what it is. He damn well knows he's in love. And this song, the earliest song in his musical timeline, is pretty much the only place he says it out loud. 

Followed, of course, by all those verses about his meaningless and inconsequential life, being overwhelmed yet persisting calmly/numbly, the light he can't look at and dreams/hopes that are unreachable from the beginning because everything (and himself) is stained. And yet, the recognition of his emotions stays running in the background; to be literal about it, his feeling of love stays present and sung no matter how deep he dives into his bleak outlook. Constant, steady, never drowned out. Two things that are truths to Ivan. It feels to me like precisely the two factors that govern his inner emotional life: the belief that he's not built for it and the knowledge that he loves, regardless.

And "this always happens to me" is the sentiment that results from all that, taking the spotlight as the general mood and baseline of Nowhere. 

His belief that that the boy he was in the slums - a human who didn't feel like he belonged anywhere, neither an equal existence in relation to the segyein nor feeling part of humanity, a type of existence that's stained and rejected - is the same person he is in Anakt Garden and the ame persona he will continue to be. Of course, that applies to his love too. Not gonna work out because that's just how it is for someone like him, another piece of the "this always happens to me", destined to be unwanted. 

(We've gotta remember that Nowhere was written at the time he was living in Anakt Garden [source: official post], the time where he developed his feelings for Till and tried to be close to him in ways that neither Till nor Ivan himself could understand properly - so, is it surprising at all that he'd continue to feel mismatched with other humans, stained, wrong and hopeless? My personal belief here is that what he experiences with Till echoes with what he experienced in the slums, all contributing to sustain his view and thoughts about himself as an individual. It's all the same. Again: this always happens to him.)

Now here's the thing: that defeatist attitude about loving Till is honestly the same one he carries over to Black Sorrow and is guided by throughout all of the main Alien Stage storyline.

Another thing that's very important to remember in regards to THAT is that Ivan never told Till how he felt in any type of way, he also didn't intend to show it or let it be known in way Till could interpret, understand and give an answer to [source: Vivimeng Q&A at the 2024 GAF event of which we only have attendee records]. He mostly fought, made up, played and spent time with Till. The most straightforward example of "acting upon his feelings" we could refer to is when he asked Till if he wanted to kiss [source: official comic], which was absolutely not framed as a confession of romantic inclinations, but just as "something some kids in Anakt are doing". It was neither expressed nor understood for its true human meaning. Ivan never says anything because he has simply assumed that he's unlovable, considers himself rejected by default (he's aware Till likes Mizi, but it's been made clear that this is mostly irrelevant to him, Till could love anybody or no one at all and he'd still have his pessimistic outlook because he considers himself the problem [source: GAF event Q&A again]) and leaves it at that. Around the segyein, he even goes out of his way to protect either Till, the privacy of his own feelings or the nature of love (as one of the few freedoms pet-humans have) by giving the impression that they're not that close and Till is not that important to him [source: Ivan interview from the Alien Stage Patreon, specifically these bits].

With that said, let's recall Black Sorrow.

It's inevitably different because it's not the raw and fully honest Ivan, but a song meant for performing, for an audience and for the competition. Still, it's his character introduction song and it's the one that tells us his viewpoint on Till. And in it, his definition of love is already, well, that it's "his black sorrow". A feeling surrounded by darkness, love for someone unreachable, the knowledge that it ends in a "cold spot stained with blood", not meant to work out for him in any way. Just as he thought at the time of Nowhere. 

Because that always happens to him. He thinks that way in Black Sorrow, he thought that way in Nowhere, he still thinks that way in Cure.

But there's one thing that's extremely different between Black Sorrow and Nowhere! And I think it's an important aspect of Ivan that the new song and the new opportunity for character analysis allow us to bring forward.

It's in this little moment, the prelude to the climax of Black Sorrow:

When the first point tally is coming, no matter when you pause the video, Ivan's points are gonna be the same as Marty's. Unlike in Blink Gone, with Luka shown to be leading and Till falling in second place, Ivan and Marty don't know how it's going. But they'll get their final count soon, so this is the point where things need to get real serious. And it's the point when – as he watches the set's falling stars – Ivan dives into his most painful but also very important memory with Till. Through which we reach the song's climax, his performance turns much more emotional and he ultimately crushes Marty's score by a great margin.

What I'm trying to say is: in Black Sorrow, Ivan is in a very similar place as he was in Nowhere, in regards to his emotions and his love. We can assume he's more accustomed to it. But most of all, he's purposefully tapping into his feelings (both his love and his pain), drawing strength from them to deliver a winning performance. It's like opening his chest up and reaching into his heart, yes, but it's also done in a very controlled manner, because as soon as he's able, Ivan composes himself. When he finishes performing, he's his usual calm self again. 

(Writing this I realize I'll need another post to dive deeper into Black Sorrow alone to cover some more points that are unique to the song, so I'll leave that for later.)

And that's the aspect of his character that I think is so important to highlight, the fact that he just… know himself so well. And how, despite viewing himself negatively in some ways, he also greatly accepts himself.

Nowhere is a very downbeat song, of course we're all face down in puddles of tears for Ivan, but him? I think it'd be… in a way, misjudging and underestimating him to settle on a very depressive or fully self-loathing view of him. Because he's pessimistic, but in a rational, "that's exactly how things are" kinda way. He looks down on what he considers his bad sides, but also keeps them close and doesn't hesitate to use all of his skills and traits. He's hurting, but he remains collected and undefeated by his various pains. He's emotionally vulnerable but also SO full of sentiment, determined, clever, capable of great acts of gentleness and dedicated as few will ever be. 

And, when it comes to his love for Till, his belief that it's doomed to be unrequited doesn't stop him from continuing to feel that way, continuing to look after Till, drawing strength from his love when needed and ultimately do what must be done to push for Till's victory in Cure.

That's all for now! Please remember that these are only my views and that for this piece I focused on interpreting Ivan's love in particular in the context of Nowhere tied to Black Sorrow, so other themes are not as covered (not because they're not important in Nowhere or his whole character, of course) and even most of the nature of that same love is also not covered. I'll continue to write more analysis posts if possible.

I hope it's been an interesting read!

idia’s simultaneous call-out and self-reflection while also still being directed at rollo hits really hard man 😭

like he's not just talking to rollo, he is also acknowledging his own feelings especially with the whole book 6 debacle

Breaking News 🥺😢💔💔💔

Gaza under fire again‼️‼️

✅️Vetted by @gazavetters , my number verified on the list is ( #523)

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We wake up afraid from bombing and unfortunately the war return again. 💔💔💔

I'm so afraid about my family and my kids please help us evacuate from this place we are crying now and screaming because of the strength of bombing around us.

please help us everything is very dangerous and we return to the killing people. you can support us and my family by donating or sharing my compaign.

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free palestine

What are your ryomina headcanons? I've loved these two since I played P3 FES, and I'm so excited to get back into the fandom^^

hi!! thank you so much for the ask, welcome back to the p3 fandom, it's always a delight to see new and old ryomina fans alike! 🥺💛💙

as for headcanons, here's a "few" i that i tend to come back to a lot! my interpretations of them are influenced from both the source material and other's fanworks, so i've linked to them as i saw fit! hcs in no particular order under the cut because oops this got long (900 word bullet point list, mentions of reload content up to 1/1)

minato's hair is dyed blue (hair originally brown, you can see it in his roots!) and he has a beauty mark on under his left eye. i like mirror imagery and there's definitely a few arts i've rb'd that portray them this way :) (e.g. this one by feliichu and this one by marasschino)

as far as i'm concerned the bathhouse scene from the manga where ryoji's hair down = similar shape to minato? that is canon to me. this art from xierru is a fun depiction of hair down ryoji :D

ryoji is homeless. everyone say thank you foxmulder_whereartthou for this awesome fic it's why i have the headcanon! but like seriously. we have no idea where ryoji lives and i could believe this.

minato dying at the end of the game is sad to an outsider's POV BUT!!! ryomina gets to be together in death for the rest of their lives (this illustration from mafuwara is a gorgeous representation of them as nyx avatar + the seal)!

speaking of the seal, they are like telepathically communicating to me in the great seal together. (mymp3 had a comic wip with this. give it a looksie :D)

ryoji likes cuddling with minato because he's warm :) (something something orpheus has fire affinity, minato is warm by extension and ryoji is cold because he's death)

ryoji's camera roll is filled with pictures of minato! ryoji... loves life, to me. and i feel that photography and journaling are perfect ways of expressing gratitude and capturing the moments in life that are most important to you :3

my other favorite activity for these two is stargazing- i feel like it's something they could appreciate either in life or death (looking at the stars from the great seal...)! they do a bit of this in the fic eurydice's vow by crescentmoontea (P5R spoilers, takes place in third sem it's a very fun fic concept).

between ryoji and minato i feel like ryoji was the one who fell in love first- and it doesn't really click in place for minato that he loves ryoji until december hits (appriser reveal + ryoji transforming into thanatos). its about the realization that ryoji was with him for his whole life and that he gets him like no one else does.

ryoji is like a sad and wet puppy who is so scared minato won't like him back. he is so scared of being rejected by minato to me like. this boy straight up deflates after he does his "i know i said i wanted us to be friends, but... i actually want to be something more." / "what about you?" on 12/1 ???

AND SPEAKING of wet puppy ryoji. ryoji is like. every animal in the world to me. he's a bird. he's a cat. etc. and also ryoji knows every language in the world ever and uses it to express his love for minato. see this fic from superheroics to see what i mean.

both of them are lactose intolerant. "this isn't lactose, it's milk!" i definitely think ryoji would make himself sick eating ice cream and milk he doesn't know what lactose is. (i made a silly poll about this once and the tags were very entertaining.)

i see minato as transmasc or nonbinary depending on the day (schrodinger's headcanons babey they're simultaneously true and not true at the same time!!). either way he's not cis to me and ryoji is like. His Gender. anyway go read this fic by nail_gun for t4t ryomina :D !

ryomina are WEIRD GUYS TO ME!!! they are so strange and they understand each other better than anyone else because of the circumstances of their relationship!!! if you asked them to do the "i wonder what i taste like" meme i think they'd start biting each other (affectionate) tbh but that's just me.

after ryoji gives minato the music box in 12/31 on reload, minato listens to the music box every night in january. this boy has insomnia and also chronic illness to me (things that housing death does to you). but i think he finds comfort in the melody and memories he made with ryoji.

in general, i think it's fun to imagine minato taking ryoji to places and show him things he's interested in! i feel that ryoji takes a lot of interest in minato's life, this isn't really a hc because in reload, minato DOES give ryoji a tour of the school (11/9) and possibly port island (11/12). but ITS CUTE OK! (tangentially related fanwork: this series of doodles from vinnigami: 1, 2, and 3)

not a hc but minato's kindness is like the backbone of their relationship and i think we would not have the ryomina we know and love today if minato wasn't such a kind soul. oh minato.... we can learn so much from you... like ryoji did!

anyway! that's all the hcs that i could think of, thank you for the ask! i had a lot of fun answering this, these two mean a lot to me 💛💙

i hope you don't mind the links to the fanart and fanfic as well, the fanwork people have made for ryomina have really made an imprint on me! if you want to see more of them, i definitely recommend looking through my tag for them because oh. i got a lot of them reblogged alright 😂 (<- SOOO NORMAL)

Wanted to bring attention to the fact that Bisan called for mass protests today (April 1st). It’s okay if you can’t march yourself, but please make it a point to spread this so that those who can march do so—and also take this as your own checkpoint to ask yourself if you’ve been faltering in terms of sharing information about Palestine, doing what you can to fund humanitarian aid in Palestine, and staying informed as to the ongoing genocide in Palestine. Some might say it has been 6 months of this, but to me that’s all the more reason to make noise now more than ever. This is one of very few spaces on the Internet where Palestine has not been abandoned in people’s endless efforts to dehumanize Arabs. Please continue amplifying the dialogue surrounding this genocide. Free Palestine. Free Palestins always.

Can't express how stress free being open minded is.

Some lesbians use he/him? Oh cool.

Some people have people inside their head and sometimes it's fictional chars? Sick your brains like a pirate ship they're all working to run.

Some people like being treated like a pet dog? Bark bark bro.

Being fat isn't unhealthy but a perfectly normal type of body to have? Kinda beautiful how different we can all be.

Something doesn't make any fucking sense? Cool an opportunity to learn. And even if I can't figure it out it's cool we still have mysteries today.

Messages between me and Ibrahim @wolf-aid on the 17th of april 2025, shared with his permission

Ibrahim is only fifteen years old, and this is the kind of things he has to deal with because of the occupation. He dreams of continuing his education, but this genocide has taken that from him. Ibrahim’s home, school, and the places he used to spend his time have been destroyed, and he has been displaced multiple times and lost many relatives in the bombings. No one should have to go through this, and especially not at his age.

On top of this, both of his parents suffer from health issues, which is scary enough for a child to experience even outside of a war zone where they can’t get adequate treatment.

Prices in Gaza are sky high for food, medications and other necessities, and evacuations are expensive too. If you can donate to Ibrahim’s campaign, you are helping this family survive until the border reopens, and making sure they can afford to leave when they have the chance.

Thanks to Ibrahim’s hard work campaigning for his family, they have reached almost 90% of their goal, but they still have a little under 10,000 to go. Please don’t ignore him and don’t let this campaign slow down when they are so close to reaching their goal 🙏🏼🇵🇸

€70,433 raised out of 80,000

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Donate to Help Ibrahim's escape the Gaza war, organized by Safaa Alanqar

Hello I am Ibrahim, 15 years old, I seek your help and assistance to save my lif… Safaa Alanqar needs your support for Help Ibrahim's e

@90-ghost @tamamita @rhubarbspring @heritageposts @dirhwangdaseul @neechees @butchniqabi @socalgal @newporters @pikslasrce @vampiricvenus @danlous @loumandivorce @jackiedaytona @deepspaceboytoy @autisticmudkip @nashvillethotchicken @femmefitz @pitbolshevik @sawasawako @iregularlyevadetaxes @omegaversereloaded @hotvampireadjacent @boobieteriat @mens-rights-activia @ot3

i will go feral when i see nagumo animated

ESPECIALLY this scene