bossviper28 - The Emperor of Everything

bossviper28

The Emperor of Everything

56 posts

Latest Posts by bossviper28

bossviper28
1 month ago

Persona: a... card game?

This is something I’ve been meaning to talk for quite a while. In the first Persona game, if you go to Peace Diner before heading to Mikage Hospital at the beginning of the game, you can talk to this NPC:

Persona: A... Card Game?
Persona: A... Card Game?
Persona: A... Card Game?

These three lines are all sorts of interesting because it means there’s an actual card game played with “spell cards”, which are also the name of the cards you use to create new Personas and are acquired by negotiating with demons.

Persona: A... Card Game?

Now, Megami Ibunroku Persona is set in the same universe as Shin Megami Tensei: if… as well as Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner. The former is more explicit as the game doesn’t shy from pointing out Tamaki’s experience dealing with demons. The latter is referenced once during the Snow Queen Quest and confirmed in a guidebook.

What I’m trying to say is, there’s nothing wrong with there being a card game based on demons. There have been many demon-related incidents in this ‘verse, and creating a card game means that if an incident happens the Devil Summoners can have an easier time at damage control by blaming crazy fans/publicity events, etc. What’s eye-catching is the fact that it’s called Persona.

The student who gives you this info is wearing a Karukozaka High School uniform. He obviously wasn’t around for the Hazama Incident since he doesn’t know demons are real. I can only imagine the students who didn’t transfer out wincing every time he brings that card game up.

Going back to the main topic, I shouldn’t have to mention the fact that the Megami Ibunroku Persona cast isn’t the first batch of Persona-users to exist. The card game was probably made by one of those older Persona-users for the same reasons I speculated before, maybe with the help of Devil Summoners.

bossviper28
2 months ago

I just. The parallels in Hector and Isaac’s designs are so good.

image

I love the angel/devil motif they have going on. Hector is conventionally pretty, with a soft face, long wavy silver hair, baby blue eyes, and is dressed in blue (and black, to symbolize his dark past). Isaac has stronger features (which is a godsend among the plethora of “same faced long haired pretty boys” drawn by Kojima), slick red hair that covers half of his face, grey/yellow eyes, and is dressed in reddish black. He even wears red makeup and has black tattoos all over his body.

The angel/devil motif is blazoned in the Devil Forgemaster crest as well, as they’re not one thing or the other, but in between. Not angels nor devils, not fully human nor fully otherworldly, always on the edge: from there, they choose their own paths. And I adore when in fanart their positions are reversed compared to the placement of the wings on the crest <3

image

https://at.tumblr.com/whitecatarts/hector-and-isaac-castlevania-has-always-been-one/2clhzacnuoqj

Speaking of Isaac in particular, red hair and yellow eyes hint at some kind of demonic nature. In the franchise, only two other characters have flaming red hair: the vampire Walter, and the Succubus in SoTN (and Simon in Chronicles, but I don’t understand why). Red hair has been historically associated with witchcraft and vampirism, and Isaac descends from a formidable family of dark sorcerers and is the loyal servant of a vampire. As for the yellow eyes, the only other character in the series with the same color is Alucard, a half-vampire. There is enough evidence to theorize that Isaac could be a cambion, or a changeling. After all, he and his sister Julia look absolutely nothing alike… Too bad that it would ruin the overall theme of “humans who don’t belong to the human world” :\ it’d make for an interesting AU, I think.

And yet, and yet. They still have part of each other in their design. Hector has a red sash wrapped around his waist; Isaac’s armor includes a little blue crystal. They also carry the pain caused by the other: Rosaly’s black headband is wrapped around Hector’s sash, as her tragic fate was caused by Isaac and Hector’s past; Isaac’s outfit is what’s left of his Devil Forgemaster uniform after Hector slashed and broke it, much like Hector’s actions indirectly broke Isaac. They’re intertwined to the core.

Isaac having the Devil Forgemaster’s crest tattooed on his back says a lot about him. Unlike Hector, who could take off his vest and stop being recognizeable as a Forgemaster, Isaac chose to be branded for life. This might also be why he stayed away from human civilization during those three fateful years: he really couldn’t have shown his face, or better his body, anywhere. It speaks about his loyalty, running much deeper than Hector’s, but also of his insecurity, so eager he was to show his commitment to his Lord. Hector didn’t need to be tattooed: his proficiency was more than enough.

Even their own names are parallels of each other! Hector is Greek in origin (most famous example being General Hector of the Trojan War) and it means “to hold fast” or “restrain”, hinting at his strong will that allows him to break free from Dracula’s Curse. Isaac is Biblical in origin and refers to the son of Abraham, who was nearly sacrificed in the name of God to prove Abraham’s loyalty: Isaac, loyal to Dracula beyond reason, also get sacrificed to his “God”, but unlike his namesake, he was not saved in time. It also means “he will laugh”, which Isaac does… a lot… not for good reasons…

Honestly at this point my only problem is with the details of Hector’s design. I have no clue of what’s going on with his arms, or if he has holes in his pants and how he covers them. But otherwise I really appreciate how much thought was put into both of them. And this is not even getting into the parallels of their personalities.

bossviper28
3 months ago

Sharess was originally a good aspect of Shar *and* Lolth?

...and perhaps the fragment of remaining goodness from both evil goddesses, with all three being possibly originally the same entity? (At least in late 1st and early 2nd edition AD&D lore)

Sharess Was Originally A Good Aspect Of Shar *and* Lolth?

Depictions (from left to right) of Shar, Sharess and Lolth, from 2003's Faiths and Pantheons

It might be a bit obscure, but rather than Bast merging with/absorbing the goddesses Felidae and Zandilar the Dancer; Sharess was originally intended to be a Chaotic Good aspect of Shar, as seen in her very first description in the original 1987 "Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting": "Sharess, a CG aspect of Shar worshipped in Calimshan, Waterdeep, and by idle rich or decadents all over the Realms. Sharess is a goddess of lust, free love, and sensual fulfillment, and is worshipped in prolonged fests with scented baths, music, good food, dancing, and other gratifications."

This when asking one of the writers/editors, Matt Sernett about this, he confirmed that Sharess was actually meant to be a benevolent aspect of Shar, and this not being a misdirection as presented later in lore.

This was basically repeated in 1988's "Empires of the Sands", as well as in the 1993 2nd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, though the latter further suggesting Sharess' benevolent nature might be an act, or that Sharess became a separate being from Shar by this point: "The true nature and identity of Sharess is unrevealed. She may he a direct part of the evil Shar, preparing her following for despair and loss. Or she may be a new thing entirely: a goddess of excess."

This starts to become even more interesting with 1991's "Drow of the Underdark", in the section with the short dictionary of Drow language. There "valsharess" is explained as meaning "Queen", and "Quarvalsharess" "(the) Goddess" in Drow language, specifically and only meaning Lolth (other goddesses are are written as quar'valsharess, and not starting with a capital letter).

The same sourcebook, details the syncretic She-Spider cult - who seemingly consider Lolth and Shar to be the same goddess. The cult was opposed by both goddesses, which is curious, seeing Shar's eagerness to subsume other deities. Though Lolth did latter possibly send her priestess (Malabeth Tr'rudena) to infiltrate the cult.

Sharess Was Originally A Good Aspect Of Shar *and* Lolth?

A card from TSR's Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Trading Cards, depicting Malabeth.

This is a proof (along with the mention Shar worship is relatively popular among Drow), of such syncretic cults between the two goddesses existing, as well as one of the hints Shar and Lolth are or were to a degree aspects of each other. Similarly how Sehanine Moonbow in both 2nd edition and 4th edition, was stated to be aspect of Shar's sister, Selûne, most notably first in the above mentioned 2nd edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting: "Sehanine: Sehanine is an intermediate power among the elves of the Realms, for they refer to her as an elven version of Selûne, the mortal goddess of the moon."

Indeed, Sharess herself might had been a hint at the connection between Lolth and Shar.

There appeared more hints overtime, like similar antagonism between the 2 pairs, Shar and Lolth becoming both connected to the New Moon, and even more in late 3.5 edition and 4th edition/Nerath lore. For example, it was stated at the very end of 3.5th edition that the god Mask is Shar's son, mirroring Vhaeraun being the son of Lolth. The two gods are very similar, both being gods of thievery connected to shadows, as well as Vhaeraun being called the "Masked Lord", "Masked Mage", "Masked God of the Night". Furthermore, both gods share near identical titles - Vhaeraun being called the "Lord of Shadow" and "Shadow Lord"; Mask being known as the "Lord of Shadows" and "Shadowlord". Both having a similar to near identical symbols. With there being theories, and hints before this reveal, Mask and Vhaeraun might be connected, maybe even aspects of each other, Mask even kinda hinting in one novel (1998's "Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad" by Troy Denning) he is the same as Vhaeraun.

Sharess Was Originally A Good Aspect Of Shar *and* Lolth?

Symbols of Vhaeraun (left, from 1998's "Demihuman Deities") and Mask (right, from 1996's "Faiths and Avatars")

Sharess Was Originally A Good Aspect Of Shar *and* Lolth?

Pictures of Vhaeraun battling his son, Selvetarm (left, from 2004's "Player's Guide to Faerun"), and of Mask (right, from 2003's "Faiths and Pantheons") On Nerath, in turn Lolth and Sehanine are described as sisters, like Shar and Selûne are. So the (at least initial) opposition to the She-Spider cult from both, being possibly from not wanting for their connection to be revealed; or alternately be merged back by the power of belief.

Though to be clear, this could work either way if Shar and Lolth are or were aspects of each other, or not. As Sharess, in her original lore, possibly sprung into existence from the worship of the syncreticism of Shar and Lolth, that arose among drow, and then spread to other races/species, possibly originally named "Quarvalsharess"; before the name became shortened/corrupted among non-drow into just "Sharess". Or even started out named already Sharess among even drow, shortening from Quarvalsharess, to emphasize the "Shar" part.

It's probable Shar at least had more control over the Sharess aspect than Lolth (seeing Sharess was directly stated to be connected to her), and possibly the new goddess, in part absorbing or mirroring whatever benevolent aspects the two goddesses had, became an independent being. This quite probably being at least in part also caused by "Time of Troubles", when gods were forced into singular avatars, this event would have cut-off Sharess from both Shar and Lolth. Especially seeing the possibility of Sharess being an independent entity, was first mentioned not long after the Time of Troubles (ie when 2nd edition Forgotten Realms setting was set).

Sharess Was Originally A Good Aspect Of Shar *and* Lolth?

Depiction of Sharess, from 1995's Polyhedron #109

Soon though, Sharess was given a different origin (first in 1995's “Forgotten Deities: Sharess” in Polyhedron #109, then further developed with some changes in 1997's "Powers and Pantheons" and 1998's "Demihuman Deities") , if still being connected to Shar, and (more indirectly) to drow, and being an amalgamation of aspects of multiple goddesses (but different ones); it's still though an interesting possibility/alternate origin for home campaigns.

Or perhaps even theorizing some part of Shar or even Lolth did get into the divine merger that was Sharess. ("Was", as in 5th edition lore, Sharess was basically split back into Bast and Zandilar).

bossviper28
3 months ago

Lolth didn't start out as a Misandrist?

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

This might seem strange, but originally it was presented as unclear if Lolth was a misandrist, was behind the sexism in Drow society, and the misandry among Drow being itself much less severe. As stated from even late 1e AD&D article in Dragon Magazine #129 "Children of the Spider Goddess." (from which I take the main image):

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

And indeed, the text implies Drow are still less sexist and more meritocratic and egalitarian than many other societies, species and races, while still being an evil matriarchy.

This comes back to the Dark Elves and Lolth's first appearances in "Against the Giants" module trilogy (G1: "Steading of the Hill Giant Chief" and G3: "Hall of the Fire Giant") and Drow series ("D1 Descent into the Depths of the Earth", "D2 Shrine of the Kuo-Toa", "D3 Vault of the Drow and "Q1, Queen of the Demonweb Pits" (latter all collected into the Supermodule - "Queen of the Spiders") - were Drow Elves who worship the Elder Elemental God, still keep the matriarchal structure of their society.

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?
Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

These being the lore written by Gary Gygax (pretty much the creator or one of the creators of D&D)

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

It's also further evident in the connected series of modules The "Village of Hommlet"/"The Temple of Elemental Evil", were there is a lead human male cleric of Lolth, Lareth the Beautiful.

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

Lareth, no longer as beautiful as once

Lolth was even stated to be pissed of on whoever harms or kills Lareth:

Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?
Lolth Didn't Start Out As A Misandrist?

This was changed in Second Edition of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, Lolth becoming increasingly misandrist (though even there still allowing male priests/clerics, as stated in 1991 "Drow of the Underdark" and 1998's "Demihuman Deities", specifically the latter stating 4% of Lolth Drow priesthood are male priests), though some writers tried to tone it down at least. Though only in Critical Role, Lolth is not as misandrist as in modern lore at least, calling back to her earliest characterization.

Still, I think it is interesting, seeing how the perception of Lolth in pop-culture, is different from how she started out, if due to old lore being forgotten in place of newer one, and also how R.A. Salvatore's very popular Drizzt novel series did portray Lolth as such (though even in some of his novels, till fairly recently, he did hint Lolth exaggerates/fakes how much of a misandrist she is).

bossviper28
3 months ago

D&D Demon Lords and Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt and Slaanesh

(Warning, some mature topics are also discussed)

Slaanesh, like other Chaos Gods, takes inspiration (sometimes probably subconsciously) from multiple sources - mythological and religious figures, literary ones, but he/they seems to be among these, particularly inspired by 2 Demon Lords/Princes from Dungeons & Dragons, that predate him/them. Here we discuss one of them - Graz'zt.

Graz'zt was first introduced in 1982's module/adventure "The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth" (and mentioned in 1976 prototype, but solely by name).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

He is here already described as the "most handsome of Demon Princes", and one of the most powerful of them (rivaling the 2 top Demon Princes mentioned before in lore, Demogorgon and Orcus). Graz'zt somewhat unique beauty, is similar to Slaanesh who is described as uniquely/most beautiful out of the 4 Chaos Gods. As seen here, he already has a connection to Succubi (as well as Lamias, but that will be important later), and the number 6 (Slaanesh' holy number), having six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Better quality scan for Graz'zt's illustration (if colored in childhood), by Cullen Burn on Twitter

Further details about him, as shed in the 1987 Manual of Planes: "Graz'zt makes his domain in a great palace that fills an entire layer and dominates the nearby layers of lesser demon lords. Here Graz'zt marshals his army against the forces of Orcus and Demogorgon."

And how Slaanesh's realm is described in 1988's "Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness": GENERAL: Slaanesh is the Lord of Pleasure, the Power of Chaos dedicated to the pursuit of hedonistic pleasures and the overthrow of all codes of decent behaviour. He reigns in a vast and luxuriously appointed palace in the void, where favoured followers litter the floors, indulging themselves in all forms of perverse pleasures of the flesh.

This might be a lesser similarity, but it is curious realms of both are specifically described as "palaces". And as opposed the later lore, the palaces filing the whole realm/dimension in both cases.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Slaanesh, one of his/their's only canon illustrations, exactly from "Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness"

Not 100% canon, but later it's elements (partly) canonized, Graz'zt was connected to Drow in Gord the Rogue series of novels, by Gary Gygax (co-creator of D&D). Specifically, in 1986's "Artifact of Evil", the drow elf priestess Eclavdra converted to serving and worshiping Graz'zt (as did seemingly the drow of Oerth, or at least house of Eilserv, in that continuity), as well as became his lover. And in turn, he helped her to become the queen/ruler of drow. Part of this was canonized since 2nd edition, in 1993's "Iuz the Evil", with Eclavdra being described as worshiping Lolth, but serving both Lolth and Graz'zt. 2006's "Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss" indeed confirmed Eclavdra converted to worshiping Graz'zt, became his lover (and they even had a son Athux). Seemingly latter serving both Graz'zt and Lolth for a time, before returning to solely worshiping and serving Lolth. Though it makes sense, as Eclavdra was noted in the Gord novels to be certain to betray Graz'zt. This in some ways, makes her similar to the later character of Morathi from Warhammer (Fantasy and Age of Sigmar).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Eclavdra, 5th edition depiction

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Graz'zt as presented in 1994's Planes of Chaos

"Iuz the Evil" was also the first appearance of Graz'zt in second edition of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons.

(Also, in 2E, Tanar'ri was the term used for all Demons, unlike later it being used for one, most common category)

Graz'zt and his Realm (now given a name "Azzagrat") was further developed, and changed a bit in the in 1994 "Planes of Chaos", making him , and making him in many ways more resemble Slaanesh: "The best known of the Triple Realm's towns are actually always connected to one another and to the Plain of Infinite Portals; the connections between the three are murky to any mind less chaotic than a tanar'ri's, and sometimes makes travel here extremely frustrating. The towns themselves are often clean and even beautiful, though the streets are still mazes; the horrors of Azzagrat are hidden better than most of the terrors of the Abyss. Screams from behind closed doors are more common than blood in the streets. If a basher doesn't poke her nose in, she might not learn what she don't want to know."

"Other notorious characters include Maretta, the Lady of the Counting-House (Px/fd (succubus)/S2/CE), who watches over the revenues from Graz'zt's pacts with creatures of the Prime. Maretta rules a haven of pleasure and discipline in the underground core of Samora, a city of vice that pays huge yearly tributes to support the Blood War. Maretta occasionally sends a legion of cambion to the front, but for the most part the city is a haven for those avoiding the war. It's one of the few places in the Abyss built with an eye for excessive ornamentation; some say it's as blinding as Mount Celestia, but gaudier."

"A basher'd be smart to avoid the Argent Palace Graz'zt's abode of 66 ivory towers and a hundred cold, mirrored halls - if at all possible. The palace is a frighteningly clean, echoing place where visitors often lose their guides to the ravenous, mad bodaks and worse creatures that Graz'zt releases from his dungeons occasionally for amusement." Here again visible the connection to the number 6.

Second edition also presented Graz'zt's very ambitious plans - of not only conquering/uniting the Abyss, but all of the Lower (Hellish) Planes, and all species of fiends, and march and defeat the Upper (Heavenly) planes (first being detailed in 1996 "Uncaged: Faces of Sigil"). If first via his servant (and possibly child), the Cambion (half-demon) the Rule-of-Three. But this was developed further in 3rd edition and later, and while it seems like an absurdly ambitious plan, it is suggested to be a real possibility.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

The Lamias, who often serve and worship Graz'zt, are also quite interesting, that in "The Ecology (Love Life) of the Lamia" (found in 1993's Dragon #192), it was revealed that while the Lamia Nnobles (serpentine Lamias) have two sexes, the common (leotaurian) Lamias are hermaphrodites, despite their feminine upper bodies. It's also described that only when mating with a human (and possibly demi-human), Lamias have children of their type/caste - two Lamias mating, produces Lamias of a lower caste. Common Lamias mating with humans of either sex, either being impregnated or impregnating them. Two common Lamias mating, creates a bizarre creature - S'air, the horned lion-goat on the article's cover, a being of animalistic intelligence. S'air are named after creatures of the same name - if spelled by modern translators more often as Sayir, found in the Bible. Often translated as satyrs, goats or devils. In general, Sayir seem to be meant to be goat-like demons, possibly related to latter stories of Jinn, and the Demon/Fallen Angel Azazel. Graz'zt having some similarities to Azazel - especially seeing how the angels name is sometimes written as Azzael or Azzazel (compare to the name of Graz'zt realm Azzagrat), Azazel being father and one of the minds (and fathers) behind the conception of the Nephilim in the Book of Enoch), sometimes described as having six fingers and six toes on each hand and foot (II Samuel 21:20, 1 Chronicles 18-21).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Depiction of a (common) Lamia in the original 1977 Monster Manual. Note her/their hind legs are of a goat

This makes also lamias seem a lot like the Late Medieval and Early Modern folklore about Succubi/Incubi, who were sex switching beings, that had to reproduce with humans. This was latter introduced to Succubi properly, but in 4th edition of D&D (though as will be seen bellow, implied since 2nd edition). What is also very interesting, 3rd edition states (in 2006 "Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss") Lamias and Graz'zt are relatives - Lamias being descendants of the Obyrith/Lovecraftian proto-Demoness Pale Night, Graz'zt's mother (as stated since 2nd edition), further showing a close connection between the two.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

4E Lamia, partially in her Eladrin/Elven form, from the 2007 Monster Manual

4th Edition, for it's duration, majorly re-imagined Lamias, if still keeping their connections with and worship of Graz'zt. Here they are re-imagined as belonging to the Fey (Fairy) group (along with elves and other faerie creatures). But a truly bizarre example of fairies. Their true form being that of a hive of scarabs, around a Fey (usually elf or eladrin) skeleton, taking the form of an attractive humanoid (most commonly eladrin, elf, drow or human). They devour their victims by first seducing them, by shapeshifting to a look and gender of the target's preference. They also reproduce in a horrific, corruptive, John Carpenter Thing-like fashion, by splitting their scarab mass, devouring a (often first seduced) fey (usually eladrin, elf or drow), aside from their skeleton, and taking their form, along with their memories. Though here being further similar in man ways to Daemons of Slaanesh, and their "relation" to elves and Eldar/Aeldari.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Graz'zt, as depicted in "The Book of Vile Darkness"

3rd edition, starting with 2001's "The Book of Vile Darkness", further emphasized Graz'zt connection to pleasure and desires, as well as started using the using the title "Dark Prince" for him, like Warhammer did for a long time for Slaanesh: "Tales are told among common folk that a dark-skinned fiend sometimes visits witches and sorcerers, granting them both sexual favors and magical powers. Graz’zt is the truth of that legend. A deeply sexual, erotic being, the Dark Prince never goes anywhere without a retinue of female monsters—usually lamias, succubi, or mariliths. He is dangerously charming and seductive, and he speaks with such eloquence and grandeur that one might think him a devil, not a demon."

"Graz’zt loves seduction and guile. Although he is not afraid of war, he would rather trick and charm his opponents than beat them in battle."

"Graz’zt enjoys blood sacrifices made in his name, and sexual rites are important in services dedicated to him as well. His temples are dark, secluded places where orgies are common."

This edition also added to Graz'zt design the fact he has 6 small horns.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Graz'zt as depicted in Dragon Magazine #360, "Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz'zt"

5th edition, further developed Graz'zt in Out of Abyss making him again even more similar to Slaanesh:

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Graz'zt in Out of Abyss' promotional materials

It's also worth to note that Graz'zt, while primarily male, his gender and sex were started to be presented as somewhat fluid (similar to Slaanesh since his debut), starting in Second Edition. In his debut in this edition, in 1993's "Iuz the Evil", he is described: "Graz'zt rules three Abyssal planes and is a powerful tanar'ri Lord. He is proud, and unusually self-controlled and cool for a tanar'ri. His favored form is that of a very tall and heavily-muscled, ebony-skinned man, with glowing green eyes, pointed ears and small fangs. He also has the peculiarity of being six-fingered and six-toed in whatever form he appears in."

This is basically repeated in the above mentioned "Planes of Chaos": "Graz'zt, a powerful tanar'ri lord, rules three Abyssal layers. Also called the Lord of Shadows or the Lord of the Triple Realm, Graz'zt is known for his pride, unusual self-control, and coolness (uncommon for a tanar'ri). He favors the form of a very tall and heavily muscled ebony-skinned man with glowing green eyes, pointed ears, and small fangs. He also has the peculiarity of being six-fingered and six-toed in whatever form he appears in."

These just state he has a propensity to change form...but 3 years latter, in 1997's "Faces of Evil: The Fiends":

"GENDER It's not uncommon for the tanar'ri to take genders as they will. Some days they're male, some days female; some days they're neither, and some days they're both. They tend to stick with one or the other as they grow older, and to all those who think this implies order or stability, why, I argue that it's simply another example of the fiends letting the strongest urge dominate (as they do in all other aspects of their lives)."

Suggesting together Graz'zt probably also assumes female and nonbinary forms, aside from his main form.

This was further suggested in 3rd edition (specifically 3.5E), were Graz'zt was shown, as part of his feud with the Queen of Succubi Malcanthet, transform into/impersonate her, as seen first in lore of the Demon Lord Kostchtchie, in the 2006 article "The Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Kostchtchie: Prince of Wrath" in Dragon #345: "The conflict between the Dark Prince Graz'zt and the Queen of Succubi Malcanthet is one of the most notorious in the Abyss. When Graz’zt hit upon an idea that would not only humiliate Malcanthet but might provide him access to the Stoldottir Gate, he put a dangerous plan into motion. Disguised as the Queen of Succubi, Graz'zt managed over the course of hundreds of clandestine meetings to seduce Kostchtchie and gain his trust, convincing him that, as Malcanthet, he wanted to be Kostchtchie’s bride and merge their resources to destroy several other demon lords."

Kostchtchie, thanks to the real Malcanthet's manipulation on her own, discovered the truth, and went into a complete rage. But what is interesting, it's also described as such: "Yet to Kostchtchie, nothing could have been more humiliating. His realization that he had been manipulated by a woman (even if that woman was actually Graz'zt in disguise) fueled his misogyny like never before, and the fact that the other tanar'ri lords (Graz’zt in particular) now viewed Kostchtchie as a besotted fool triggered one of his greatest rages ever."

Stating Kostchtchie considers Graz'zt at least partly a woman, and even the text seems to partly agree. And this even fueled Kostchtchie's misogyny, not homophobia, or any form of queerphobia.

Graz'zt again impersonated/transformed into Malcanthet in 2007's "Expedition into the Demonweb Pit", as part of his plans:

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Graz'zt And Slaanesh

Graz'zt impersonating Malcanthet, circled

And in 5th edition, in "Out of Abyss": "The appearance of the Dark Prince is a warning that not all beautiful things are good. Standing nearly nine feet tall, Graz'zt strikes the perfect figure of untamed desire, every plane and curve of his body, every glance of his burning eyes, promising a mixture of pleasure and pain. A subtle wrongness pervades his beauty, from the cruel cast of his features to the six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot. Graz'zt can also transform himself at will, appearing in any humanoid form that pleases him, or his onlookers, all equally tempting in their own ways."

In general, these similarities, and possible inspirations are very interesting, especially how it seems Graz'zt and Slaanesh started to mutually influence each other.

bossviper28
3 months ago

D&D Demon Lords and Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth and Slaanesh

(trigger warning: mature themes and topics)

Another, perhaps less obvious similarity is between Lolth and Slaanesh, and how Lolth possibly in part inspired the Prince of Pleasure (and even maybe got some inspiration in return).

Lolth, in her first appearance in 1978's "D3 Vault of the Drow" module, was hinted to have a connection to excess, including debauchery but also excessive ambitions. In the same module, drow society in the city state of described as: "The main ways of this ancient and depraved city are thronged with as unlikely a mixture of creatures as can be imagined. Green cloaked Illithids and Kuo-Toans rub shoulders with Dark Elves. Ghosts and ghouls roam freely, and an occasional shadow or vampire will be seen. Bugbears and troglodytes are common, as are other various servants and slaves of the Drow (dwarves, goblins, half-orcs, humans, and orcs are sometimes free inhabitants of the place). All are pale from dwelling in the sunless Vault. Trolls slink by evillooking men wearing the green garb. None are disturbed to pass a lesser demon or succubus, a night hag or mezzodaemon. These crowds part hurriedly for Noble Drow riding nightmares or the more powerful demons or nycadaemons (see special section at the end), but those of the Dark Elves with pack lizards must slowly force their way through traffic. Beggars of all sorts are seen, and half-Drow thieves, pimps, and harlots are as common as the enslaved human and elven prostitutes displayed before certain establishments."

"The tiers and dungeons of Erelhei-Cinlu reek of debauchery and decadence, and the city's inhabitants are degenerate and effete. (Those with any promise and ability are brought out of the place to serve the fighting societies, merchant clans or noble houses. The rest are left to wallow in the sinkhole of absolute depravity which is Erelhei-Cinlu.) The most popular places in the city are the gambling dens, bordellos, taverns, drug saloons, and even less savory shops along the two main streets. The back streets and alleyways too boast of brothels, poison shops, bars, and torture parlors. Unspeakable things transpire where the evil and jaded creatures seek pleasure, pain, excitement, or arcane knowledge, and sometimes these seekers find they are victims."

Succubi are also noted to be most probable to appear out of fiends in the city streets, even one Silussa, having an role along with her lover, the drow vampire Belgos. As detailed in the sequel module, "Queen of the Demonweb Pits", succubi are specifically mentioned among Lolth's servants in the Palace of Lolth.

While the city's decadence and debauchery aren't directly stated as connected to the worship of Lolth, it is suggested to be the case, especially in how the temple of Lolth is described as having: "An obscene tapestry at the rear of the temple screens a pair of double doors which lead to the lower level of the place."

"2) The bed chamber of the High Priestess is as lewdly and evilly decorated as the outer room. There are no spider tapestries here, merely opulent furnishings, including various jeweled objects of great value (13 items with a worth of 1,000-8,000 g.p each)—including a strange platinum rune set with black opals (if it is touched a nycadaemon is summoned, and it will expect something altogether different than the party of adventurers, so it will immediately attack!). 3) Behind the secret door is a cell wherein is chained an insane human of great strength (9th level fighter; H.P.: 73; 18/81 strength, 11 intelligence, 9 wisdom, 16 dexterity, 18 constitution; 17 charisma) kept here by Charinida for whatever purposes please her at the time. There are several whips and torture instruments on one wall, and near them is a gag and a ring of invisibility. Note that the prisoner is bound to the east wall where the secret entrance to room 4) is."

Lolth's (probable) depiction on the cover (by Keith Parkinson) of the 1986 compilation of the Giants, Drow modules, the supermodule Queen of the Spiders, might had inspired John Blanche's depiction of Slaanesh in 1988's "Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness":

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh
D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

The positions of the two are even very similar, if mirrored

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Slaanesh is also described to look (to mortals) as golden haired, and in combination with this picture, fair-skinned, which seems less similar to Lolth...except how she appeared in the 3rd episode of the 1983 Dungeons and Dragons cartoon "The Hall of Bones", were she appeared exactly with those physical traits, in her human or elven form:

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh
D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Along with the succubi, it's also worth mentioning Lolth is probably named and based in part on Lilith. Especially that the Hebrew form of the name Lilith, discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls, was Liloth, Liliyyot or Liliyyoth.

Lolth's name is also curiously influential here. It's notable it was often misspelled by players and fans as "Lloth" since her debut, this even finding it's way to official sourcebooks and novels set in Forgotten Realms (first in the 1988 novel "The Crystal Shard" by R.A. Salvatore, but especially in 2nd edition (1989-2000)). It was in the same edition, clarified as an alternate spelling, mostly used in the city states of Menzoberanzan and Uluitur (and often on the suffrace above them). But in the first edition, and original 1986 Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay sourcebook (and it's reprints), we are introduced to a mysterious divinity of hedonism worshipped once by elves, Meneloth:

"•THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE ELVES• Largely untouched by the collapse of the interdimensional gateways, the Elves in their island Kingdoms continued to prosper. Their already considerable knowledge of Old Slann magic allowed them to control and direct many of the new entities. From amongst these beings, the Elves chose several benign creatures and cultivated their worship, including the hedonistic creature they call Meneloth."

Meneloth was for years thought to be somehow connected to Slaanesh, either as an alias or a Daemon Prince or Greater Daemon serving them, something this passage vaguely implies seeing Meneloth's connection to Chaos, elves and hedonism. The only "semi-official" confirmation of Meneloth's identity, is from a 2004 pulication for a French Warhammer Fanzine "le Grimoire" "Warhammer : Chaos - Les Terres Du Nord" (but one on which worked official Warhammer writers/creators: Alfred Nuñez Jr. and Anthony Ragan. As well as Stephan Foulc, but he only worked on official Warhammer stuff after this books publication):

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Or Google Translated: "Slaanesh is the Prince of Chaos, the Power of Chaos dedicated to the pursuit of hedonistic pleasures. He is the Master of Pleasures, lord of excess. He reigns in a vast palace lavishly arranged in the void, where his favored servants cover the ground indulging in all perverse forms of carnal pleasure before his divinely graceful and ravishing eyes. He is represented by the peoples of the North in the form of an oversized albino serpent named Loesh. He is also worshiped by the elves as Meneloth."

Here is also mentioned the name of Slaanesh- "Loesh", also connected to a related alias, "Loeth", both similar to the "Lloth" spelling of Lolth's name. Or even more so to another spelling mentioned in 1991's "Drow of the Underdark, "Loethe".

In her appearances in D3 Vault of the Drow, 1980 Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits, 1980 Deities and Demigods and 1981 Fiendish Folio, Lolth was described as having 66 hitpoints (though it might had been meant 166 after D3 (as Gary Gygax described the appearance of Lolth there later as an "avatar), but 1 was lost in latter publications). Still, note that later Slaanesh' number was noted to be 6.

Also, in 1987's Manual of Planes, Lolth's realm is in on both on the 65th and 66th layers of the Abyss (and she is ultimately more associated with the 66th layer).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

A very early depiction of a Warhammer female dark elf - "Forces of Fantasy" 1984. Note what seems like pitch black skin (like of a drow from D&D), and the the large spider symbol, akin to symbols of Lolth drow wear in D&D. It's notable in very early Warhammer lore, before 4th edition (1992), dark elves worshiped the Chaos Gods (with Khaine and Khorne being seen respectively as the elven and human names/aspects of the Blood God - as described in 1988 White Dwarf #108), especially Slaanesh. This artwork was also basis for the figurine described officially as the "Witch-Queen of Dark Elves", a seemingly a very early version of Morathi

Lolth, as stated above, is worshiped and closely connected to drow/dark elves, being their main deity. She was also described in some sources as worshiped also by other "depraved elves", something she desires somewhat secretly from her drow worshipers, to expand (along with worship among humans, which is also present).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth, in her demonic form, "Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits", 1980. Also used in 1991 "Drow of the Underdark"

Her connection to elves, was first expanded in the original, 1980 "Deities & Demigods" sourcebook, were she was, in a legend described there, involved in the very creation of elves, as well indication she started out as something other, and fallen into demonhood, when describing the chief deity of the elves, Corellon Larethian:

"The god is also mighty in battle, and is said to have personally banished such demons as Lolth from the sunlit Upperworld. Elven lore states that the race of elves sprang from the drops of blood Corellon shed in this epic battle."

It implying Lolth has a connection to darker side of the elves, due to having a hand in their creation. And indeed, multiple instances of the drow origin, states Lolth sowed corruption in elven hearts, causing the origin of the dark elves (or alternately, corruption/fall of dark elves into drow elves).

(Latter descriptions of this legend, have Corellon Larethian's blood being spilt in his battle with the king of the orcish gods (and his brother) Gruumsh, and from this blood (and mixed with the tears of the moon goddess, Sehanine Moonbow), rose elves, while from blood of Gruumsh spilled by Corellon, orcs. Though even other versions, describe elves and orcs existing even before this event.)

Lolth's archenemy, Corellon Larethian, might also be an inspiration for Slaanesh, seeing as far as the very same 1980 Deities & Demigods book, he is described:

"Corellon Larethian represents the highest ideals of elvenkind: "he" is skilled in all the arts and crafts, and is the patron of music, poetry, and magic. Corellon is alternately male or female, both or neither."

Corellon is a highly benevolent figure compared to Slaanesh (described as Chaotic Good), if not without a darker side described in some later lore (2nd edition and latter).

Like Lolth is seemingly inspired by Lilith, Corellon Larethian appears to be inspired in part by Adam - both the physical Adam, as ancestor of humanity (and who, in some Jewish writings, is described as a hermaphrodite before the creation of Eve from his rib; the rib, due to it's ambiguous meaning in Hebrew, probably originally meant "other side" or "other half"); and the divine model and oversoul of humanity (and manifestation of the Abrahamic God to a degree), Adam Kadmon, also described as a hempahrodite. Adam Kadmon is not a Biblical figure, but from Jewish (originally), as well as Christian and Gnostic mysticism. His name might be in part derived from an alternate name of Adam Kadmon - Adam Elyon. Corellon - Cor Ellon - Cor Elyon (Elyon is also one of God's names).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

The battle of Corellon Larethian and Lolth. The Complete Book of Elves, 1993

Other elven gods though - the pantheon being called "Seldarine" - are also described as malleable in terms of sex and gender - first in 1980s Dragon #62 (their proper debut) 2 elven deities were described as such - Labelas Enoreth (god of longlivety, time and history) and Hanali Celanil (goddess of love, romance, beauty, fine art, artisans and artists), and in 1992's "Monster Mythology" all of the Seldarine were described as having malleable sex and gender (if there is one their appear/are represented more often as). Lolth was described in 2nd edition as a fallen member of the Seldarine in 1994's "Planes of Chaos" (if being, arguably, implied being such since 1980 Deities & Demigods). So despite her misandry, sharing the sex and gender malleable nature of the Seldarine. Though so do demons in general, as I wrote in my post about Graz'zt and Slaanesh, and it's notable as I mentioned in my other post, Lolth's was not always portrayed as a misandrist, and some modern publications do imply her misandry is at least partially "performative".

As expanded in 1998's "Demihuman Deities", and even more in the same year's novel "Evermeet: Island of Elves" by Elaine Cunningham, Lolth was originally Araushnee, the lesser elven goddess of destiny and artisans, and wife and lover of Corellon Larethian (adding a further layer to their status as each others nemesis), that was cast out and transformed into a demon after an attempted murderous coup, and several other attempts at Corellon's life, and attempts to replace him. The artisan part of her portfolio was curiously taken over by the mentioned above Hanali Celanil.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

4th edition depiction of Corellon's and Lolth's battle. Dragon #394, 2010

As I mentioned above, Lolth, despite sexuality, lust, desire decadence or debauchery usually not being described as part of her divine portfolio, Lolth is described as beings deeply connected to lusts and desires, as well excess. In 2nd editions 1991's "Drow of the Underdark" (this and other details, repeated in "Demihuman Deities"), Lolth's avatar was described as basically having a seduction attack, like a succubus (or akin to Slaanesh supernatural charm that seduce anyone), and some other interesting details, like being implied to be amorous to a degree towards mortals, regardless of gender:

"Even more, Lolth enjoys corrupting elves and humans to her service. In drow form, her direct physical embrace can act as a charm person (save at -4) on a human or demi-human of either sex. She customarily leaves a poisonous spider to aid, guard, and keep watch on those who personally serve her, and gives them any one magical item that she possesses or one magical item that she possesses or can seize. Lolth can appear kind, rendering aid to those she fancies —but she really cares only for herself; her favor and aid can never be relied on."

"She enjoys the company of spiders of all sorts; when in drow form, she often clothes herself entirely in clinging spiders."

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth, clothed only in spiders, webs and her crown, surrounded by most members of the Dark Seldarine. "Demihuman Deities", 1998

Demihuman Deities also gives, I think for the first time, one of Lolth's titles the "Mother of Lusts".

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth's drow form, clothed in what either seems like chitinous armor/clothing, and some spiders crawling on her, or her clothes/armor are are conglomeration and/or merging of various arthropods, including centipedes. "Faiths and Pantheons", 2002

3rd edition also describes Lolth as having access, and giving access to the Lust Domain (along with the Envy, Pride and Wrath Domains) in the 2004 "Seven Deadly Domains" article in Dragon #323 (also stated in 2005's "Spell Compedium").

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth's demon form, as described in 3rd edition, murdering curbstomping "fighting" some elves. Note the 6 antennae on her head, as well as having 6 eyes. "Complete Divine", 2004

Lolth is also noted to value incredibly personal ambitions, and courage to do anything to fulfill it. This is why she "forgives" worshipers breaking her rules in pursuit of ambitions (if they aren't caught or get away with it) and even a number of priestesses, that for personal ambition, betray her, and worship her son and enemy, Vhaeraun, if they return to her in pursuit of her ambitions, and even giving them powers during their betrayal, like was with Shakti Hunzrin. And as was with the mentioned in my Graz'zt post Eclavdra, as described in 2006 "Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss" returning to Lolth after betraying her to the worship and service of the Elder Elemental God and Graz'zt (both great enemies of Lolth), explaining to the demon godess she done it in pursuit of her ambition, and recognizing Lolth as the superior master among all of them, was rewarded the position of the highest priestess of Lolth in the whole multiverse, and later (in 4th edition), Lolth even gifted her with a level of divinity.

In general, even Lolth encouraging a level of betrayal among drow (what makes many compare her to Tzeentch), can all be seen as a form of excess (and seeking to fulfill ambitions at all cost), liking her even more to Slaanesh.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

A (kinda) more erotic and well, weird version of Lolth (or her avatar) in her demonic form, torturing an elf. "The Book of Vile Darkness", 2002

And in Ravenloft, in the Domain of Dread, Lolth's aspect there, the Spider Queen (as described in 2004's Ravenloft Gazetter V), does have hedonism as part of divine portfolio, and it as a crux of her worshipers dogma among Shadow Elves (pretty much entirely) from the Unseelie court. Their dogma being: "Pleasure is the only goal worth pursuing, and it must be sought ceaselessly and without thought for the consequences. Take what you want. Other people do not matter; they exist only as objects of or hurdles to your satisfaction. If they are hurdles, they must be dealt with harshly, and dealing with them is itself a source of pleasure. Murder, deception, hatred and pain are all art forms, and the Spider Queen favors those who master them. Spiders, who live only for themselves and kill their mates once satisfied, are the perfect animals. You must be as selfish, deceptive and sadistic as they are. The Spider Queen helps those who help themselves."

The Shadow Prince (and the ruler) of the Unseelie Court of the Shadow Elves, Loht, while being evil (though not monstrously so), also is against and roots out the worship of the Spider Queen, like Malekith, the Witch-king of Dark Elves in Warhammer is towards the worship of Slaanesh among Dark Elves. (These details were first mentioned in the 1997 "Domains of Dread" Ravenloft campaign setting and 1998 "The Shadow Rift" module).

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth, cocooning her victim. Lolth, Spider Queen Magic: The Gathering card, "Adventures in the Forgotten Realms" expansion, 2021

Though as opposed to Slaanesh, Lolth is one of, if not the powerful demon lord since second edition, specifically 1995 "Monstrous Compendium - Planescape Appendix II", were Graz'zt (who was discussed earlier) and Demogorgon (holder of the title of the "Prince of (all) Demons" (and technically the strongest of demons), both at least to a degree, fear Lolth: "Even a demipower such as Demogorgon or Graz’zt prefers not to aggravate the Spider Queen needlessly, and interfering with Lolth’s handmaidens is a quick way to draw her attention."

There is some caveat to this, and certain Demon Lords are implied to be possibly/potentially even superior to Lolth (the Pale Night) in their full power, or if they gain (Demogorgon), or regain (Obox-Ob) their full power. And Lolth is usually not interested in ruling the Abyss, her focus more being on the Material Plane.

While Slaanesh is usually the weakest of the 4 Chaos Gods (if still more powerful than everything else), but since at least the 1997 5th Edition Warhammer Armies: Realm of Chaos, it is stated Slaanesh in time will probably become the most powerful Chaos God.

Lolth is also served by Type III Demons (later known known as Glabrezu), even having a closer connection since start.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Lolth (in drow form, in the middle) along with a Type III demon/Glabrezu (on the left) and Type II Demon/Hezrou (on the right). Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits, 1980

As even from the start, not only they were among her minions, in Vault of the Drow there was a Lolthite artifact, the Demon Staff, that allowed a Priestess of Lolth to transform into a Glabrezu.

Why this is is important? Well Type III demons/Glabrezu very probably were an inspiration for Warhammer's Keepers of Secrets:

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Artwork of a Glabrezu/Type III demon from the original 1977 Monster Manual

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh
D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Artworks of Keepers of Secrets from "Realms of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness". This design is the closest to Glabrezu (if less canine and depending on Daemon, more goat-like or bovine), though later designs also retain a certain similarity

Glabrezu are powerful (physical and magically) and manipulative demons, that corrupt mortals. In canon compared and contrasted to succubi, who pray on lust, Glabrezu pray on desire for power in all forms of it. Later lore curiously further connects Glabrezu and Lolth, and her worship. As first detailed in the 1990 Homeland novel by R.A. Salvatore, Drow have a ritualistic initiation orgy as form of Lolth worship - the Ceremony of Graduation/Day of Graduation (itself a further similarity between Lolth and Slaanesh worship), were the graduating students engage in sex with each other. Demons might also be summoned (and also engage in the orgy), including more often than sometimes a Glabrezu

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

A drow priestess summoning a Glabrezu, from the 2012 "Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue"

In 3rd edition, it was further specified this is one of the occasions were a Draegloth (a child of a drow priestess and Glabrezu) could be conceived.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

3rd edition artwork of a Draegloth from 2001 "Monster Compendium: Monsters of Faerûn"

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

A (male) Draegloth restraining an elf, 4th Edition Monster Manual 3, 2010

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

A less monstrous female Draegloth, an idea from 4th edition (originally there was not much sexual dimorphism between males and female Draegloths). Notice similarities similarities to contemporary 2006 depictions of Keepers of Secrets, as seen bellow. 2008 "Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide"

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

The Keper of Secrets Zarakynel, 2006 Imperial Armour Update

Another notable (even most notable) species of demons that serve Lolth, are the Yochlol, also known as "Lolth’s handmaidens".

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Yochlol, fighting adventures, in both their "true" amorphous, eight-tentacled form (left) and giant spider form (right). Q1 Queen of of the Demonweb Pits, 1980

Yochlol are notable as having several forms - the two seen on the illustration (amorphous and giant spider), gaseous one, and of a female humanoid form (almost always of a highly attractive drow, other elven form, or human form) that can be changed. In their first appearance in 1980 Queen of the Demon Web Pits, they used their form as beautiful women in silken gowns, to try to fool and manipulate the player characters.

1991 "Drow of the Underdark" expands quite a lot about them. It reveals they can near perfectly hide their alignment (morality) (even from alignment detecting spells), and that they are fully devoted to Lolth, as opposed to more mercenary nature of most demons in D&D. They are also described there as being able to seduce mortals very well, but also stated to often actually love their mortal lovers (if rather selfishly), and avenge them if they are killed.

The Yochlols origin is fully described/revealed in 2006's "Fiendish Codex I: The Hordes of the Abyss", stating Lolth created the first Yochlol by severely modifying succubi, essentially making them a succubi species, if one fully loyal to Lolth, with different abilities. Lolth though most commonly now creates new Yochlol from souls of her deceased priestesses, or by transforming weaker demons. As well still having normal succubi serving her.

D&D Demon Lords And Warhammer Chaos Gods - Lolth And Slaanesh

Yochlol, shifting between it's amorphous and drow forms. "Demon Queen's Enclave", 2008

There were some hints of it before - their abilities and tactics being similar to a succubus' in D&D, or succubi-like. In first edition, the Yochlol's gaseous form, being a equivalent of the succubus' ethereal form, Domination of Succubus' Charm Person. The above mentioned "Monstrous Compendium - Planescape Appendix II", expanded on Yochlol tactics and abilities, stating that Yochlol often first "uses its beauty and charm to beguile its opponents". It also gave the Yochlol a Charm Person ability along Domination, as well as an interesting psionic ability - "Attraction" - that "creates an overwhelming attraction to a particular person or thing - be it an item, creature, action, or event".

4th Edition's Monster Manual II from 2009, also gave Yochlol the "Seductive Glare", ability that can Charm an opponent, further exploring the similarity between Succubi and them.

Again, this is a one heck of a long post. To think I originally wanted to make this and the post about Graz'zt one ^^; I also considered posting first the possible inspirations for Tzeentch by Fraz-Urb'luu and Pazuzu, but this one was already partially finished.

[EDIT]

Corrected some mistakes, and expanded on two subjects (another official in-universe spelling/form of Lolth's name that could inspire Slaanesh' names and on Yochlol).

bossviper28
4 months ago

Pazuzu in Castlevania...

Arguably the most mysterious character in the series.

Pazuzu is an oldie, first appearing in Castlevania III: Dracula's Curse...as the final boss:

Pazuzu In Castlevania...
Pazuzu In Castlevania...

Pazuzu in Dracula's Curse, his design taking inspiration from 1st edition Advanced Dungeons of Dragons depiction of Pazuzu from 1983's Monster Manual II, most visible with both having beaks, as opposed to other depictions of the Mesopotamian demon king.

This either Dracula taking his form, Dracula merging his spirit with Pazuzu's petrified form, or Pazuzu taking over as the final boss after Dracula's defeat. The lore, even Japanese one is unclear, and this is from were we even get notion of Pazuzu being a separate character.

To be more specific, Pazuzu was meant to be "the Devil", also referred as "Evil God/God of Evil" (邪神/邪心 Jyashin) Dracula sold his soul to in old lore for his powers, vampirism and army, as well as selling Alucard's soul. This was overtime retconned, with Alucard being born a dhampire being established in Symphony of the Night, Alchemy and Chaos, as well to a degree Death (seemingly) taking Pazuzu's place in the lore. Only thing is...Pazuzu still reappeared, even in games after these retcons.

He first re-appears in Harmony of Dissonance, first there being shown as a damaged version of his petrified form/statue/idol,

Pazuzu In Castlevania...

and then as one of the bosses near the end of the game...coming out of what seems like a sealed portal, being in place usually were Dracula's throne is.

Pazuzu In Castlevania...

While many think Pazuzu here mostly (beyond his name)references the Demon/Leviathan boss from also Dracula's Curse and Baphomet, I think it's more than that. It's just in this depiction, design wise he is based on the unearthed more recently statue of Pazuzu (from Tell Sheikh Hamed, Syria), which make it clear he has horns on his head (the horns from earlier statues are misinterpreted as ridges on his head):

Pazuzu In Castlevania...
Pazuzu In Castlevania...

Pazuzu's attack patterns, are also meant to reference Dracula's classic Demon Final Form.

And that takes to Pazuzu's next appearance...in Curse of Darkness as Dracula's final form, even more similar to the statue I brought up, having now 4 feathered wings like it:

Pazuzu In Castlevania...

He also takes here cues from Ultimate Dracula forms from Legacy of Darkness and Circle of the Moon, but the similarity to Pazuzu is obvious, along the fact Curse of Darkness is a direct sequel to Curse of Dracula, probably referencing the final boss fight in it, if with new twists.

As in Harmony of Dissonance, Hector also encounters in Curse of Darkness the statue of Dracula's Curse Pazuzu:

Pazuzu In Castlevania...

Indeed, the statue's presence in games seems to be be a foreshadowing Pazuzu will appear in some form in the game.

Even more curiously, in the official Curse of Darkness manga (supervised by IGA/Koji Igarashi himself) Pazuzu is referenced (as 邪神/邪心 Jyashin/Jashin, as he was called in the Japanese version of Dracula's Curse, mistranslated as Evil Lords in the official English version):

Pazuzu In Castlevania...

What is his role after the retcons, or is he just a reference to retconned lore?

It doesn't seem he is just a reference, seeing the mention in the manga by IGA/Igarashi himself. Pazuzu exact role in current canon though, is left up to pure speculation. He might be mighty demon Dracula struck a bargain with, before he became (fully?) the Dark Lord/Demon King. He might a previous Dark Lord/Demon King/avatar of Chaos. He might be some manifestation of Chaos that Dracula merged with to become the Dark Lord. We can only speculate, as possibly we will never know, seeing Koji Igarashi left Konami.

And why chose Pazuzu over many other demons, including some like Satan who would fit? Well, I will discuss that...in a next post, (hopefully) tomorrow.

bossviper28
4 months ago

I've pondered before about Nico recreating Agnus's research and granting herself a bug-like Angelo transformation. And as cool and hot as that would be, I never felt sure it was in character.

However, a plot point in the Machiavelli Duology (all details in my pinned post) is that after Machiavelli and Arius II are dealt with, the Ouroboros Corporation would fall under Nico's control.

And this would be incredibly stressful for her.

She can't just be tinkering in her workshop and flirting with any female coworkers who pass by all the time, she has to make important business decisions about stuff like finances and public relations.

And she can't just quit, because everyone who's gunning for her job is evil and would commit crimes against humanity in the name of science and profit given the opportunity. Nico's having a hard time transitioning Ouroboros to more ethical practices, and she has good intentions.

I could see the stress taking a toll on her mental health, leading her to consider courses of action she otherwise wouldn't.

What if her smoking got worse? She goes from smoking two or three cigarettes a day to at least a whole pack.

What if she got cancer?

What if, suddenly, her mortality became very apparent? And the outcome where someone with malicious intentions inherits Ouroboros becomes inevitable, and imminent?

bossviper28
4 months ago

Not so long ago, a friend brought to my attention a passage from Deadly Fortune that really sheds some light on how Nero sees the world.

He believes that there's no inherent morality to the universe, except for the morality imposed upon it by those in power. It's essentially Vergil's "might controls everything" slogan, but as a real ideology instead of a mere reaction to trauma.

The same friend shed some light on Nero's feelings toward Kyrie. As much as he admires her selflessness and compassion, he acknowledges that as a human civilian, she has no strength to act on her ideals. This is precisely why he believes he has to be strong, to stand up for what Kyrie believes in.

This makes me wonder what would happen if Kyrie's ideals changed.

In my "Kyrie gains demonic minions like V's" plot (all details in my pinned post), Kyrie allows many Fortunians to be subjugated and tormented by demons she has chosen not to form pacts with, due to their cruelty toward her and her family, and for taking her kindness for granted. Would Nero stand by her as he always has?

With the above in mind, I'm inclined to say no. He would relate to Kyrie's bitterness, and might take a little too long to admit that she's crossing a line, but ultimately he loves Kyrie for her goodness, not the other way around.

At the same time, I'm not sure he believes in those ideals strongly enough to stand against Kyrie. She's his role model, his reason for fighting. If she no longer fit into that role, I think Nero would just walk away.

In that passage mentioned above, Nero remarks on a scene in Devil May Cry 4, where Kyrie shields a child from an attacking Scarecrow with her own body. Nero remarks on the futility of the gesture, that they'd both get torn apart anyway. This sheds some light on another scene from Devil May Cry 5, after Dante loses to Urizen, when Nero callously walks away from the Qliphoth as a civilian is impaled by a root. He believes in himself less than ever in this moment, and he isn't one to throw his life away for a good cause if he knows it's hopeless.

Nero fights for Kyrie and her ideals, and if he could no longer believe in that, I don't even think he'd continue being a devil hunter. He might even lose his powers, Spider-Man 2 style, as it is implied that he gets his powers back at the end of Devil May Cry 5 because he found a new reason to fight. He might get some menial job to make ends meet, but he really has nothing to live for at that point.

And what I like about this outcome is that it finally presents an opportunity to tie the Kyrie plot into the Machiavelli Duology (also explained in my pinned post). If the Kyrie plot and her falling out with Nero happened before the Trish/Lucia/Lady side of events really kick off, it could explain why he doesn't get involved. Maybe Nico alludes to what went down in Fortuna, mentions trying to get in touch with Nero, but to no avail.

As for what solves this whole mess...

I think I've said before that I like the idea of Dante being the one to get through to Kyrie. He helps her understand that fighting for the good of humanity doesn't have to mean being nice to them, as he consistently does the right thing while also being an unpleasant jerk very frequently. Kyrie finds a way to be true to herself without totally giving in to hate.

And conversely, perhaps Vergil is the one who gets through to Nero. He's the furthest thing from Kyrie's ideals of kindness, and yet Nero stepped in between him and Dante to save him anyway, which began Vergil's own path to healing and growing. Nero did this primarily because he remembers the pain of losing Credo, even after the awful things he participated in. Nero realizes that if saving someone like Vergil can be worthwhile, then it'd be foolish to give up on Kyrie.

I could imagine Vergil encountering a depowered Nero, and provoking him to fight, announcing his intent to make good on his promise not to lose this time. Mocking him about his lost power, until Nero becomes motivated (hehe) enough to trigger and kick Vergil's ass again.

bossviper28
4 months ago

Miraculous Master Post

Hello! Here’s the master list of all my stuff! I have no idea if I’m doing this right so if I’m not, please let me know and I’ll try to fix it!

Miraculous College AU:

Part 1

Contains class salt, Lila salt, and Adrien salt

Miraculous Career Choice AU:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4 (Jasonette child) coming soon

Contains minor class salt, Lila salt, Gabriel salt, Adrien salt, and Maribat Jasonette

Bio Mom Au 

Starfire Part 1

Starfire Part 2

Zatanna Part 1 coming soon

Contains class salt, Lila salt, Adrien salt, Minor Chloe salt, and potentially more salt to be added.

Requests: Organized by ships or other stuff

Timinette:

New Phone Who Dis?

Contains class salt, Lila salt, Adrien salt, Alya salt, Chloe redemption, and probably more I don’t remember.

Daminette:

Revenge Never Looked So Good

Contains class salt, Lila salt, Adrien salt, Alya salt, a lotta salt.

Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Panthère de Nuit

Contains class salt, Lila salt, Adrien salt, Alya salt, a lotta salt. This is super long so I suggest taking an intermission, stretching your legs, and going to the bathroom around the sewing machine part. 

Edit: Fixed tagging

bossviper28
5 months ago
✨ Wisdomverse: Masterpost ✨

✨ Wisdomverse: Masterpost ✨

Welcome!

This masterpost covers Lin’s Wisdomverse; comprised of:

Wielders of Wisdom: a Zeldas-meet AU comic series

The Secrets We Keep: a parallel LU story featuring the Links

Wielders and Secrets take place in the same universe and their stories will intersect at times. However, you do not need to read one to understand the other.

🦋 Wielders of Wisdom 🦋

Timeline (TBA)

Information

Character Introductions

Sun, Dot, Lullaby [Details]

Tetra, Dawn, Fable [Details]

Dusk, Artemis, Flora [Details]

Phantom, Aurora [Details]

Spirit, Silent

Intro (fic)

Chapter 1 [The Founder’s Call]: Start | Latest

Interlude 1 [Echo of the Past]: Start

Extras: Reunited | Failure | Delivery | Statue | Tears | Painting | Tea | Magic | Science | Moments | Remlit | Abscond | Smash | Morning | Echo | Monopoly | Moments 2 | Dining | Poll

Zelda+Link Duos: Bladesaw (Flora) | Sail (Tetra) | Safe (Dawn)

🧩 The Secrets We Keep 🧩

Timeline

Main Story

Extras: Trap | Shadows | Dream | Tea | Waves

bossviper28
8 months ago

Okay, TFP univererse but Unicron adores humans? Like, the moment he sees these feral little organics scattered around his frame he's like "What is this... adorable little creature? I guess I'm a father now." Extra points if he still poses as an eldritch abomination to Cybertronians . I'm a sucker for a character who is this ruthless and vile creature to everyone but secretly acts like a total softie towards his children😭 If you can, I would like to see reaction from both humans and Cybertronians at this development.

I love a good old bad guy (sort of) redemption arc. A dad gotta love his kiddos even if he is the destroyer of everything.

Abrupt Parenthood

When Unicron awoke and felt the presence of Cybertronians he was about ready to flip out in rage. He was so blinded by their presence initially that when Primus's disgusting Vessel appeared before him and told him of the entities living upon his surface, he did not believe it at first. However Primes were very rarely known to lie, and the one before him felt sickeningly familiar to the one he fought so long ago, and so he briefly paused to consider the given information.

As he felt around his frame he was flabbergasted to discover that the Prime was right, he was totally covered in all sorts of fleshy organic creatures. He paused for nearly ten minutes as he just took it all in, the flora, the fauna, the whole ecosystem that had flourished upon him. And most importantly, he took the time to look at the sentient little life forms that had spawned from him, the tiny and oh so fragile humans. He should have felt disgusted, but as he observed the millions of humans on his frame he found himself feeling oddly protective. And so when the Prime pleaded with him to remain in at least partial slumber, Unicron complied stating that he would need time to consider the situation.

His avatars went back into dormancy and he stopped his awakening, instead opting to watch the small entities living on his surface in awe. They were so short lived, even over the course of the few weeks he spent just watching he saw hundreds of thousands of them be born and die all within mere days of each other. Not only that but they were weak beyond words, at least physically, especially since their only armor was hardly anything of note when compared to Primus's creations. The little humans died daily due to any and all possible causes, some to accidents, some to their own stupidity, some to violence, and even more to pure bad luck. But they also showed immeasurable drive and ingenuity, every single one of them living their lives to the fullest and striving for greatness even when so small in the grand scheme of things.

They were weak, they were short lived, and they were oh so foolish in the sight of elder races. But they were the most wonderful little lifeforms Unicron had ever seen. Before he even realized it, he had grown attached to the beings that were born of him and rapidly accepted the mantle of fatherhood. He did not stop his children from doing as they wished, he did not stop their deaths or interfere in their actions. He may have been the great destroyer, but when it came to his offspring, he was much like Primus. He understood that his children needed to be left to their own devices for the most part if they were to learn. And while he did occasionally use a small avatar or highjack an animal to stop things like suicides and the like, he otherwise left the humans alone.

However his general passiveness in response to his new offspring did not stop him from harassing Primus's creations. While unable to transform or access much of his power due to the humans possibly being harmed, he could still make life difficult for the Cybertronians on his surface.

He cared little for the factions of his brother's creations, but he did tend to be more lenient with the Autobots for a host of reasons. First and foremost because they went to great lengths to protect his offspring and keep them from harms way. Secondly because the Prime, despite being Primus's horrid vessel, loved the humans he had taken on almost as much as Unicron himself. Unicron hated the Prime, but he was loath to loose such a powerful protector for his little ones. So long as Optimus lived, there was a good chance that he would continue to guard Unicron's offspring with his very spark, something the destroyer would not object to considering his situation. And of course his third reason for being kinder to them was simply because they weren't outright attempting to abuse his powers and semi-dormancy at every opportunity. There was a sense of caution that was kept, the Autobots never daring to touch his blood or interact with him at all save for the Prime's occasional attempts to speak with him and ensure he had no plans to awaken fully any time soon.

Usually Unicron's harassment ended up being small things like inconveniencing the Autobots by making it rain more often in certain areas or causing them to be unable to find energon for a while. Although he took care to ensure they didn't starve, he needed them alive for the time being after all. He purposefully liked to bother Optimus by sending ominous signs, leaving the Prime on edge for weeks and usually never doing anything with it. He also made sure that the tree humans under their care were always kept safe, even going out of his way to awaken an avatar when required to keep them from harm. While not usually his way of going about things, he only wanted his children to die naturally, not because of his brother's children's petty war. He was half tempted to try and give the human children gifts or something of the like to protect them, but upon noticing their fear and the general toxicity of his blood, he put that plan aside and served as a protector only when required.

The Decepticons however received no such leniency. While normally Unicron would be pleased with Cybertronians handing themselves over to him in exchange for power, this instance was different. Megatron wanted to rule Cybertron, and Unicron could care less. But the warlord had expressed a desire to cyberform earth as well, destroying all life upon its surface, and that could not stand. Earth and its inhabitants belonged to him, no one was allowed to touch his children, especially not a wayward brat of Primus. So he made life as miserable for the Decepticons as possible without outright murdering them. He would prefer if the Cybertronians wiped each other out, so why get rid of either faction? So long as they obliterated themselves he wouldn't have to worry about retribution from his brother or possible threats from them in the future.

Usually he tended to just screw over the Nemesis's flight patterns with terrible storm and other elemental hazards. He also found it incredibly entertaining to make life harder for the Vehicons in the mines. He sometimes made a few terrorcons with old corpses just to watch the Decepticon troops scream. Screwing with Megatron through strange visions and odd dreams was also funny, especially when the warlord couldn't figure out why he was dreaming of frolicking with the Autobots and doing the tango with Ratchet. It was just so much fun for Unicron to mess with Shockwave too, often subtly altering experiments of his to watch the scientist silently fume. He usually didn't do anything actually harmful unless the Decepticons harmed his humans, in which case he would gladly throw terrorcons at them or shoot their ship with lightening and the like as a warning.

The humans are his children. No one screws with them unless they want a very pissed of god of destruction doing everything in his power to ruin their life.

bossviper28
10 months ago

Demon WLW in Kabbalah

(note: this contains controversial topics)

As Lilith is now again more on people's minds, as are to a lesser degree the 3 other Demon Queens/Angels of Prostitution (them thanks to the soon coming out Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance and maybe Majo Taisen), I wanted to bring up something about them, that is oddly obscure and underused.

Specifically that in Kabbalist texts, 3 of them (Lilith, Agrat bat Mahlat and Naamah) are characterized as Women Loving Women (WLW).

Lets first discuss the less controversial Agrat bat Mahlat and Naamah, who are described (seemingly) as lovers in Rabbi's Naftali Hertz's "Sefer Emek haMelech":

"Asimon (a demon) rides on Naamah, and Naamah rides on Igrath the daughter of Mahalath, and this Igrath rides on several kinds of spirits and bands of midday-demons;"

("Igrath daughter of Mahalath" is another possible spelling/transliteration as well as partial translation of Agrat bat Mahlat from Hebrew)

To be clear, the term "ride" is used in Kabbalah seems to be a synonym for sexual relationships among demons. The most (in)famous example is Samael "riding" Lilith ("The serpent, Lilith, is ridden by Samael").

Now to Lilith herself...in the Zohar (one of the foundations of Kabbalah), Lilith is described as lusting after and possibly being in love with both Adam and Eve:

"When He created Adam, in order to perfect this world, as soon as Lilith saw Eve affixed to the side of Adam, and saw in them the beauty of the Above, and saw their perfect image, she flew off from there and wanted, as before to attach herself to the little faces. But the guardians of the gates of Above did not Let her."

It also seems Lilith managed to later seduce not only Adam, but also Eve herself. But first to explain some things. As I mentioned above, in the Zohar, Samael isn't really the Serpent of Eden, he just rides it/her, the Serpent being Lilith ("We have learned that the Spirit of Defilement comes from the corrupt serpent, WHICH IS LILIT"). And well, Lilith/the Serpent of Eden is described to have sexually seduced Eve:

"After Adam and his wife sinned, and the serpent had intercourse with Eve and injected filth into her, Eve bore Cain. He had the shape from above and FROM below in the secret of the filth of the Other Side, and from the side below OF THE EXTERNAL FORCES. Therefore, he was the first to bring death into the world, caused by his side, AS HE CAME OF THE FILTH OF THE SERPENT."

This is also repeated in the mentioned above Sefer Emek haMelech:

And the Serpent, the Woman of Harlotry, incited and seduced Eve through the husks of Light which in itself is holiness. And the Serpent seduced Holy Eve, and enough said for him who understands. An all this ruination came about because Adam the first man coupled with Eve while she was in her menstrual impurity -- this is the filth and the impure seed of the Serpent who mounted Eve before Adam mounted her.

("Woman of Harlotry" is a title of Lilith)

And yeah, it means Lilith is described as Cain's "father". (And sometimes also kinda Abel's). Though this is complicated as other parts of the Zohar state Samael is Cain's father, but at other times he is specifically not, only Lilith/the Serpent is. And sometimes Adam, Lilith/the Serpent and Samael are all Cain's "fathers" (meaning the guy somehow had 4 parents). Though this version more suggests Lilith and/or Samael somehow "polluted" Cain in the womb (when seducing Eve), hence they are also his "parents".

One might ask how this can be the case with Lilith, Agrat and Naamah being described as engaging in sexual acts and relationships with other women? Well, it's because it's portrayed as sinful, (in the eyes of the writers) as part of the three's sexual perversion, with the three being succubi, even their queens. This is another reason I described this as controversial, and wasn't sure to post it on June/Pride Month. Still, I think there is a lot of value with making this more known, and one can say Lilith, Agrat and Naamah can be reclaimed.

Why isn't this well known? Well, works of Kabbalah were not easily available in past, especially translated from Hebrew and Aramaic , there often being mostly excerpts or summaries in books describing them. And the authors of these, often overlooked or downplayed the WLW aspects, due to them being even more controversial in the past, due to greater homophobia then. This also why Lilith, Naamah and Agrat being WLW was not often or at all used in fiction.

Still, I hope people reading these found it interesting, and I apologize though if it was offensive for others.

bossviper28
11 months ago

Let us see the terror of heaven

I was thinking a while ago today about the way angels are consistently designed in Shin Megami Tensei vs the way the Law alignment is sort of steadily portrayed in later games. It's a weird trip but hopefully where I'm going will become clear.

Most of Shin Megami Tensei's angels actually hue fairly close to the "traditional" image of angels, as fair-looking winged humans. We see this for instance in Shin Megami Tensei's Angel.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

In nearly all of the angels in the Tenshi clan:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

And of course, the Four Archangels/Seraphs/Heralds. Let's just use Uriel as an example here:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

There's also Haniel and Kazfiel whose designs both follow traditional Christian depictions of seraphs. We'll bring up Haniel's art here:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

But then we get to Shin Megami Tensei II where we really start to see the "Biblically accurate angels" trope emerge in earnest, where we see the more human/Hellenistic-looking angels alongside some pretty eldritch entities in the Daitenshi clan. For example, Tzaphkiel:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

Or how about Ophanim, which seems to be based around Ezekiel's vision of the cherubim:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

And then of course there's SMT 2's Satan:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers can be seen as developing the inhuman aesthetic of SMT's angels as extending from the "Biblically accurate angel" trope. Let's start with the Tenshi clan in Devil Summoner:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

And some of the Daitenshi:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

Then Soul Hacker's Tenshi:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

And Daitenshi:

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

With Shin Megami Tensei IV it seems that one of the guest artists, Keita Amemiya, took the inhuman direction for angel design to the nth degree in terms of his approach to demon design in general as reflecting the idea of angels and demons as artificial beings.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

At this point I should get to where I'm going here. For a while, at least a decade ago, I might have favoured the idea of the angels as strictly inhuman, or even artifical, possibly to convey the externality and alienness of the repression of the order of God. Keita Amemiya seemed to really lean on that idea, though the designs were certainly rather poorly executed at least for the Four Heralds. But thinking about it, I think the older designs for the Four Seraphs appeal to me for more than just being the classic designs from SMT 1 and 2.

Even though the "Biblically accurate" design direction is very suitably weird both for SMT's context and the linking of the strange and alien to representation of dreadful aspects of divine awe, I find that the more humanlike representation of angels in the context of the Law alignment works better for what, in my mind, I prefer to see. To understand where I'm going, let's look at SMT IV and Apocalypse. Here, the Law alignment is much as it is in SMT I and II, in that it can understood in terms of a single-minded devotion to the order of God, and to the extent that the forces of Law are ruthless in their actions, willing even to wipe out all of Tokyo in order to preserve the Eastern Kingdom of Mikado. In Apocalypse, you see YHVH's "true form" as a monstrous chimera the likes of which, as I remember Eirikr noting, you would probably see as the formulaic final boss of literally any JRPG.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

To my mind, it serves to very obviously signify YHVH as unambiguously evil, which, oddly for SMT, is represented as similarly unambiguously demonic. Of course it might be argued that the conceits of Sethian "Gnosticism" are also in play. I think that the opposite approach would be better. SMT IV's approach seems to tie the order of God and the atrocity that the forces of Law undertake to uphold as, all along, the manifestation of a demonic will. But the better idea for me is that all of the same atrocity is done not by monsters but by the traditional figures of light.

Every scheme to dominate the universe, and every massacre that follows to support it, every terror that befalls mankind for its perceived failure, I prefer that we see all of it under the auspice of the traditional figures of light. That would be a far more fitting adage of the inversion that SMT is known for. As Valerio Mattioli said of Rome as portrayed by Luchino Visconti, hell lies in the celestial vaults. And what better way to illustrate that then all of the violence and terror of Law being the instrument not of monstrous chimeras but of celestial form. Of a "beauty" that hides unfathomable violence within itself. And I don't want SMT to be the only place where you can find this idea. Oh no no no I think more media should play with that idea, more art should go all in on this kind of aesthetic-moral inversion.

Update: it occurred to me that I've forgotten something. I forgot to talk about SMT V.

When it comes to SMTV, we see echoes of SMTIV Apocalypse's handling of Law and the violence of order, in that it both reasserts its treatment of that as the affect of an actually demonic will and presents Abdiel's desire to reassert God's order as a plunge to towards the demonic. Hence you see the angel Abdiel transform from sort of an angelic Princess Padme in gold armour into an actual fallen angel, who even gets reclassed as the only Law-aligned member of the Fallen clan.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

Not to mention her attempt to become a Nahobino resulting in a transformation into a giant demon centaur whose design seems to recall Sirene's fusion with Kaim in Devilman.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

Of course, in context this is all supposed to emerge from the premise of God's death, Abdiel's denial of that death, and the resulting desperation to restore order. But, again, that desire as strictly the affect of the classically demonic to me misses the point. Yet, given the obvious resonances with Nocturne, where three of the main characters merge with their demonic sponsors, it's worth pointing to an obvious contrast: Baal Avatar.

Let Us See The Terror Of Heaven

And moreso, the fact that before you see Baal Avatar you witness Chiaki slaughter the Manikins, ramble about how the strong deserve to crush the weak, and then in a flash of light three out of the four archangels (namely Raphael, Gabriel, and Uriel) appear as her allies, which you fight.

Now there's a setting where the representatives of Social Darwinist violence and atrocity also make no bones about what guides them: the idea that they're making the world beautiful and promoting the ultimate good. Their radiant appearance is not to be understood as a deception covering up some inner demonic nature or demonomania but instead only reflects their seemingly divine conceit. It's not only that they believe they are paragons of virtue. Everything they do, they do as figures of light. And you, a monster among monsters, a cursed being in the world of demons, might oppose them and might just stop them if you choose to. It's really hard to think of anything else that has that angle. It's also somewhat concerning to think that future games might miss the mark.

The development exemplified by Abdiel's transformation into literally a fallen angel ultimately lends not only to certain ideas about the hope that there might be something "unambiguously good" about Law, but also the idea that all the bad things about it are all about concert with the demonic, which is ultimately familiar to the conceit that all of the negative aspects of Christianity are simply the manifestations of a falsification of Christianity, that the "real" blasphemers, heretics, and demons are actually just Christian fundamentalists. But I'm not interested in that idea. I'm interested in the worst that humanity has to offer being contained in its loftiest aspirations of order and in turn represented in the figures of light, because I'm interested in the idea that it is in the name of "the Good" that atrocity always manifests, and for which we cast it into a shadow of the human, in evil.

What we are striving to forget is that the worst deeds in the world are always either utterly human or surely the work of God. Nothing demonic could come close. So let us see more inversion that reflects that insight. The insight that, so far, SMT is among the few media to portray, let alone portray as brilliantly as it often has.

bossviper28
11 months ago

Can we all acknowledge there’s something wrong with Flynn?!😰

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰
Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

Remember this is the narrator saying this by the way😅.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

He just casually gets buffed not from god energy like Nanashi but from emotions.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰
Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

Flynn literally went from not being able to perceive a higher dimensional being in front of him to being able to perceive them then literally kills them. Do you know how absurd of a power jump Flynn literally just had by standing there?! That’s at least by a whole dimensional tier. Flynn’s power jump in these few moments is like the difference between kid Goku and Goku after he did the god ritual.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

This is an ability Krishna seems to gain after fusing with Flynn by the way.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

Simmer down there, Zamatsu🤣. But yeah again his emotions are still buffing him while fused.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰

Also what the heck happened when he beat Demiurge?! After beating him he got some sort of buff. Did he absorb his essence?! Is he pulling a Doomslayer?!

In conclusion, Flynn’s genes were always cracked before the demon gene retcon. Flynn must be some sort of eldritch being that just freaking casually jumps whole dimensional tiers and literally gets a whole buff to his stats and sometimes recovers from just emotions😥! Baal’s fear of Flynn is freaking justified!!! (But, yeah seriously what the heck is Flynn?! I’m concerned). Also why many people who call Flynn weak are laughably wrong(they just think he’s a dude with a sword seriously they are naive fools😂). This guy is a freaking monster.

Can We All Acknowledge There’s Something Wrong With Flynn?!😰
bossviper28
11 months ago

The Insane Power of Flynn: The Defense of Chad Samurai Man

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

It’s time for the lies and slander to stop. Flynn is not weak and it’s time to set the record straight. This is the defense of the power of chad samurai man. This is a more in depth version of my earlier post questioning why people think Flynn is weak. This goes over all Flynn’s major achievements, compares him to some of the other protagonists, and explains just what he can do. If you disagree on what I say and want to debate me I’m open to it. I’m still new at powerscaling this is based solely on feats of characters and what is stated in the games. I made this because people think Flynn is weak and I simply don’t agree based on what I have seen of him from playing SMT4 and SMT4A.

Edit: I added a feat I completely forgot about.

Preamble: This is a composite Flynn using feats from the neutral route of SMT 4 and SMT 4 Apocalypse. I believe the feats are fair game for Apocalypse Flynn because if the timeline didn’t diverge he would have gone right on to do these feats after giving Masakado the spirit of hope. This includes the side quests and dlcs too.

*Spoiler warning: Major spoilers for SMT4 and SMT4 Apocalypse.*

*Trigger warning: Reading this may trigger intense salt. If you get salty easily or really don’t like Flynn or think anyone without demon power is fodder or if you can’t take jokes (mostly of this is serious but I threw in some jokes for fun) reader discretion is advised.*

This isn’t everything Flynn’s done, just the most impressive stuff he’s done.

Feats (Solo):

-Defeats Lucifer in his true form even after his transformation

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

In the chaos route he tells Flynn that his form in this game is his true form. After Flynn beats down Lucifer in the neutral route he transforms presumably getting stronger.

-Defeats Sanat and Ancient of Days (dlc)

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man
The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

Both Sanat and Ancient Days are heavily implied to be beings on higher dimensions of reality. These beings couldn’t even be analyzed by Burroughs the AI Steven made. At first Flynn can’t perceive them, but then for some unexplained reason he suddenly can. After this he fights and defeats both of them in their respective quests.

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

Also, Ancient of Days is a part of YHVH. Flynn defeats a part of YHVH alone.

-Defeats the White

This one is probably the least important because it’s not exactly known how strong they are. What we do know is that the white are the incarnation of humanity’s despair. They had the power to send Flynn to parallel words and even trap him in their own dimension. Flynn is able to escape with Stephen’s help after defeating the white.

-Defeats Krishna very casually (in the bonds route)

After being separated from Krishna who has power comparable to Lucifer or Merkabah he easily defeats him after two sword strikes. You could argue Krishna was weakened, but Flynn is shown here to be perfectly fine even though he was just fused with Krishna. It doesn’t make sense for Krishna to be more damaged than Flynn after all Krishna was in Flynn’s body so if anything he should be more hurt after the battle with Nanashi’s group than Krishna. If you want to say Krishna was weakened then Flynn should be equally weakened too by the damage sustained by Vishnu Flynn.

-Defeats the four archangels separately (dlc)

Mastema recruits Flynn to defeat the Archangels for him so he can seal them. So, he goes through time like samurai Jack and fights them. He defeats each one of them individually so Mastema can capture them. Flynn could have killed them considering the dialogue choice your given.

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

If you say yes Mastema persuades Flynn not to though it’s very clear if he wanted to, Flynn could kill them.

-Defeats Beelzebub (side quest)

In a side quest he kills the lord of the flies Beezlebub. Beezlebub is a very powerful demon for the chaos faction and was once the deity Baal. He also, like everyone in SMT4A, wants Flynn.

-Defeats Masakado’s Shadow

He beats sense into Masakado’s shadow before the nukes hit Tokyo. Masakado’s shadow absorbs all the elements, physical, gun and resists almighty yet Flynn was still able to damage him.

Edit:-Flynn also tanks multiple lightning bolts from Odin. It is shown that Flynn is faster than lightning because he dodges Odin’s lightning. The only reason Odin hit him to begin with is because Matrieya threatened to kill Asahi. So, Flynn can speed blitz and tank multiple lightning bolts from a God. Also remember Odin was able to completely manhandle Nanashi’s entire group including Isabeau. Even with the rematch Nanashi and his entire group were needed to defeat Odin. I think Odin taking a hostage implies he couldn’t have defeated Flynn fairly because if he could of he would of like he did in his first encounter with the bonds squad.

Feats (w/other people):

-Defeats YHVH

Obviously defeating the creator is a big deal. In the bonds route he defeats him alongside Nanashi’s friends and his fellow samurai. In the Dadga route he defeats him alongside Nanashi and Satan. An important thing to note here is the fact that Flynn aids Nanashi in his victory no matter which route he chooses. Dadga’s whole ideology revolves around the individual and doing things by yourself. He only revived Nanashi to be his Godslayer because only a human can kill a god. The point I’m trying to make is that Dadga would only revive Flynn if he absolutely had to. This implies that Nanashi could not have defeated YHVH alone and that he needed his help to win.

-Defeats Merkabah (a fusion of the four archangels)

In the neutral route he defeats Merkabah with just his samurai companion Isabeau.

-Is one half of Vishnu-Flynn a being on the same level of power as YHVH

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

This is the power Krishna intended to use to defeat YHVH. Remember this is after all his allies are out of commission so he is confident they can defeat YHVH in their fused state.

-Defeats Satan (a fusion of Lucifer and Merkabah)

Self explanatory he does this with Nanashi in his friends in the bonds route and with just Nanashi in the Dadga route.

Comparisons:

-Nanashi

He also fought Lucifer and Merkabah, but had WAY more help. He had his immortality from Dadga and also the help of Asahi, Nozomi, Hallelujah, Gaston, Toki, Navarre, Isabeau, the people of Tokyo, and Shesha disguised as Flynn. Even then him and his team still had to resort to sacrificing swaffs of Tokyo’s people and distracting Lucifer so Shesha Flynn could stab him in the back.

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man
The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

So anyway the ‘morally unobjectionable’ bonds squad sacrifices a bunch of people to get advantage in a fight like the heartless monsters…*cough* *cough* I mean retarded heroes they are. They neither try to stop the people or even question Shesha Flynn. Why? I dunno because they think he’s Flynn? I guess if Flynn says it’s okay anything is alright? This is how far their simpage of Flynn goes. He’s like a god to these people and they will agree with everything he decrees. On the flip side Flynn not only fought Lucifer alone, but Lucifer even transformed into a stronger form and was still defeated by Flynn. Against Merkabah, Flynn is supported by Isabeau only having the one person as help compares to Nanashi who had support from his SEVEN FRIENDS and the hunters. And even with ALL that support underhanded tactics were still needed to defeat Lucifer and Merkabah. This is in contrast to Flynn who beat them in their transformed states fair and square with little or no support.

Vishnu Flynn is a big point people try to use to argue Nanashi being superior, but it makes no sense. In the bonds route he needs all his friends' support, and Flynn sabotaging Vishnu Flynn from the inside to win while in the Dadga route he just fights him alone. This realistically makes no sense. The feat I just mentioned just happened before Nanashi goes into the cosmic egg with his friends to fight Vishnu Flynn. Nothing between the bonds and Dadga route is different up until the choice where you either fight your friends or Dadga. Afterwards you immediately fight Vishnu Flynn. It makes zero sense for Nanashi to be stronger in the Dadga route since everything would be the same up to that point. Also, an important thing that people don’t bring up is that Krishna is controlling Vishnu Flynn not Flynn. Also, Flynn doesn’t have access to his demons or Masakado’s katana which he would have in a normal fight against Nanashi. Krishna even openly admits that he’s still getting used to the new body so it’s clear Vishnu Flynn isn’t at his peak.

The Insane Power Of Flynn: The Defense Of Chad Samurai Man

And seriously you’re having a guy who uses a flute to attack suddenly use swords so he’d have no skill in using him which would make a big difference. For all we know Krishna just flails them like baseball bats at Nanashi. This would be very different if Flynn, a trained samurai whose main weapon is a SWORD, was in control. What I’m saying is this fight is not very reliable in determining how Nanashi would actually fair against Flynn. He’s not only not the one in control, he can’t summon, and he doesn’t have access to any of his normal equipment.

-The Hero (SMT 1)

I’m comparing the two since they both fight the archangels. Flynn is obviously above him considering his final boss is Michael and Flynn defeats a fusion of all four of the archangels with Isabeau. Not even best dog Pascal can save him from a guy who can kill beings on higher dimensions.

-Demifiend

Both beat Lucifer but Flynn beats a powered up Lucifer and rather than maybe fighting YHVH like Demifiend actually canonically beats YHVH. So, I know this will make people triggered but I honestly think he’s stronger than Demifiend. Not to mention Masakado’s katana bypasses Demifiend being null to everything and can give him a weakness.

Powers:

Masakado’s katana- He can give any enemy a weakness with it. Since it counts as an almighty attack this attack could even work on Demifiend. I mean it worked on YHVH for crying out loud.

Higher perception- He can perceive beings on a higher plane of reality than he is and can even fight them and beat them.

Magic-In Apocalypse he uses almighty magic and has healing spells. In the other version of him in the Diamond Realm dlc he has access to ice, wind, and lightning magic.

Higher tier skills-He can get more powerful versions of skills through demon whisper up to +8 stronger.

Has such samurai skill- He is really good with a sword to the point where other characters compliment him on this including the Gaia member you fight to get into Ginza.

Is a human-Means he can kill Gods and all that other crazy bs they say humans can do in Apocalypse.

Demon Summoning Program-Pretty standard he can summon demons.

Epic Chad Energy-Is so powerful and awesome freaking LORD KRISHNA SIMPS FOR THIS MAN!!! (You know the big bad main antagonist of Nanashi’s game😂) And a bunch of other gods, demons, and humans in Apocalypse. 90% of that game was just everyone fighting over him and his manly ponytail. Even the radical individualist Dadga couldn’t resist having him on his side when it literally goes against his whole ideology and makes him look like a huge dumb hypocrite. The entire population of Tokyo goes from being bloodthirsty sociopaths to his simps because he’s just that awesome. This motherfucker is like the Yu Narukami of mainline SMT everyone wants him. This guy is such a chad in fact he doesn’t need to be given a handout (immortality, demon powers, whatever the fuck is Aogami’s deal (I’m not done with SMT5)) in the beginning and just starts as a casual farm boy who can’t even bait a fishhook to chad messiah godslayer who has every faction simping for him. And yeah I know somebody is gonna say ‘what about Masakado’s katana? Isn’t that a handout?’. First of all Flynn doesn’t receive the katana in any route except neutral and that’s after he’s already defeated countless gods and the literal incarnation of humanities despair so no I wouldn’t call it a handout. He earned that katana after already proving himself to be capable. Other than that Masakado only supports him through letting him fuse his shadow to use in battle.

Conclusion: I would say he’s at the bare minimum above Lucifer. I do think realistically speaking he is stronger than Nanashi. It makes no sense for Nanashi to be stronger and if he was really so above Flynn why does he need his help?! Going off feats I would put him above Demifiend whose big bad boss was Lucifer. If Demifiend solos YHVH in a future Nocturne HD Redux Overlocked: Maniacs Edition I will gladly eat my words till that day comes. I believe the person who beat God is stronger than the guy who beat Lucifer. But, I’m going off what has happened in canon. Especially with his dlc feats I would place him above a lot of characters in mainline. He still doesn’t beat Aleph because he’s a freak. I don’t know about Nahabino because I’m not done with SMT5.

bossviper28
11 months ago

What’s Going On with the Ears in Hyrule?

image

(Or: A Needlessly Comprehensive Deep-Dive into the Myst-EAR-ious Duality of Round-Eared Humans and Long-Eared Hylians, a Very S-EAR-ious Write-Up)

As some of you may remember from a few months back, I made an off-hand comment about my ideas surrounding the disparities between the different types of ears we see in Hyrule’s human citizens, and my desire to further expand on that at a later date.  No, that was not a joke, and yes, I am finally Doing the Dang Thing.  So!  Let’s get started.

Long-time fans of the series will know that Hylians are a race of humans in the world of The Legend of Zelda with long, elf-like ears.  Hylians most always dominate the land of Hyrule in nearly every installment in the series, with round-eared humans only making their first appearance in Link’s Awakening, a game that - spoiler alert - was all a dream in the first place.  And though plain old humans again appear in the lands of Holodrum and Labrynna in the follow-up Oracle games, it is very in keeping with the theme of this blog that their most notable appearance happens to be in Twilight Princess.

Though it is never remarked upon in-game, Link is the only Hylian in a village filled with humans, such as Ilia and Rusl, leading the player to assume that he was not Ordon-born.  Other notable examples include Ashei, who hails from the mountains, and even the inhabitants of (New) Kakariko (though only three in number) are all mere humans.  The Hylians of this game seem to be centralized around Castle Town, with notable members including Telma, Shad, and Auru of the Resistance, and naturally, Zelda herself.  Yet as I’ve already stated, the fact that there are two different sets of ears among the humans is never even a topic of conversation; it makes you wonder why the developers bothered to make the distinction at all, and indeed, plenty of fans have never even noticed that such a disparity exists. I certainly didn’t notice when I was ten years old, playing through Twilight Princess for the very first time - but we’ve come a long way since then, and I am delighted to finally be able to tell everyone why I think this disparity exists, and how it has bled into other aspects of the series.  Let’s back away from Twilight Princess for a moment; all good theories have a beginning, and this one is no different.  To understand where this all began, we must look thousands of years into the past, to Skyward Sword.  More specifically, this all started…

image

…with this guy.

Keep reading

bossviper28
11 months ago

Have you ever thought about how Mario probably grew up in a loving but financially unstable home, and how he and Luigi likely struggled to eek out a decent life for themselves prior to whatever strange magic brought them to the Mushroom Kingdom? Have you thought about the months where they had to decide which they wanted more: food, or a roof over their heads?

And then have you stopped to think about Peach, a literal monarch with an endless supply of wealth, suddenly giving them a cottage big enough to house a whole family and free access to her castle and inviting them to share meals with her, for no other reason than 1.) she's quite fond of them and 2.) she just can? How she probably views these gestures as meager, the absolute least she can do for her friends, and how she likely has no idea that she's casually giving them a sense of security and belonging they've never had before? How much peace she brings into Mario's life, never having to wonder where his next paycheck or his next meal is coming from, seeing his beloved brother finally having the means to pursue his own hobbies and pastimes, and not even realizing it? Have you ever thought about that?

And have you ever thought about how lonely Peach's life must have been? Even if there were other children her age to play with (never mind that none of them were human like her), she couldn't have played anyway, because every aspect of her upbringing was tailored around making her an effective politician? And how even in adulthood, there's very few people who seek her company just for the sake of it; how she goes into most interactions knowing that she's wanted for her beauty, her power, her influence, and nothing else?

And then have you stopped to think about Mario, a guy with plenty of friends and lots of better things to do, just... seeking her out for no other reason than to talk? How he could have so much more from Peach if only he asked, she would happily gift him any treasure that money could buy, but for some reason she can't decipher, all he wants is her friendship? How he doesn't view her as untouchable or some great means to an end, nor does he just turn a blind eye to their differing social statuses; he acknowledges her position and her power yet expects nothing of her in spite of it, and is happiest simply when he can sit and chat with her about nothing for hours on end? Have you ever thought about that?

Because I think about that, like. A lot.

bossviper28
11 months ago

Headcanon: Bowser fucking hates King K Rool’s guts, and that’s why K. Rool doesn’t show up more often in the Mario Kart/Sports/Party games.

Like, because, while Bowser is an imperialistic dictator, we know from stuff like the RPGs that he actually cares a lot about his troops/subjects, and there’s a huge degree of respect between them.

King K. Rool, on the other hand, is shown to treat his subjects/troops like shit, to the point where his chief mechanic defected in DK64 and one of his goons takes bribes to let you in to the bonus areas in DKC2, his mad quest for vengance for the Kongs ended up with him inadvertently fucking sinking his people’s homeland, and at one point his troops fucking lead a coup to replace him with a robot after said sinking.

Granted, he was the puppetmaster of that robot, but they didn’t know that at the time!

And, getting into wild speculation territory, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts too that the reason Krocodile Isle was such an ecological trainwreck before it sunk was due to his policies, considering what the factories he installed as a breachead on DK Isle would look like.

Plus, there’s the fact that his basic tactic of “steal his enemy’s staple food supply so they starve to death” is a foul tactic that I’m pretty sure could be counted as a war crime of the level Bowser has never resorted to; even when he was trying to become God in Mario Galaxy.

So, seeing all of this, it’s easy to understand why Bowser would be fucking disgusted with the guy, and would probably be able to convince even the notoriously-lenient Mario (Who has even let the guy who tried to keep him as a permanent painting join from time-to-time) to not let him come after that one time.

Ironically, I think that K Rool would probably greatly admire Bowser, given the strength and greater efficiency of Bowser’s army, as well as how Bowser tends to bounce back from defeat much better than K. Rool’s army…

I HAVE COMPLEX FEELINGS ABOUT THE MARIO SETTING OKAY! JUST BECAUSE THERE IS ONLY THE LOOSEST OF CONTINUITY DOESN’T MEAN THERE ISN’T WORLDBUILDING POTENTIAL DAMMIT!

bossviper28
11 months ago

really long ask lmao

hello! I’m a newcomer to the shin megami tensei series, introduced through smtv at the start of this year (actually finished nocturne just last week along with starting soul hackers and iv lmao). i discovered your tumblr about a month ago and finally mustered the courage to submit something.

(apologies in advance for having a bunch of questions and if you’ve covered the answers to these elsewhere @_@)

1. what is some folklore/mythology you would personally like to see represented in the series, as a demon or otherwise?

2. not limited to smt, what is some of your favorite kaneko artwork overall?

3. what is your opinion on the success of persona compared to rest of the megaten series?

4. how would you describe your experiences with the megaten community in general?

5. last question what would you say your favorite demons are design wise? personally, among the designs i’ve seen, some that stick out a lot are dominion, chernobog, jersey devil, mother harlot and baal.

____________________________

Hello! 👋 Congratulations on taking that first step and welcome aboard! Sounds like you’ve been busy chipping away at what’s available! I’d be happy to answer your questions.

1. Hmm. This is one of those good common questions I have answered many times but at this juncture, knowing how new SMT games add a couple dozen random demons each time, I would go for my tried and true picks from the Goetia. Buer is one such low-hanging piece of fruit.

2. I’m still overwhelmingly interested in Kaneko’s SMT work. My favorites are the pieces “Advancing Army” and “Advent” illustrated for the covers of Kaneko Works I and II respectively:

Really Long Ask Lmao
Really Long Ask Lmao

3. There’s a very obvious difference in appeal. It is what it is.

4. Well… I’ve been around long enough that I’ve had pretty much every experience possible, good and bad. But I have to say that my ask inbox has been overstuffed for years at this point and I would consider that part of a healthy relationship!

5. Nice choices, esp. Jersey Devil! Honestly I wonder if people would be able to guess my top 5 or so demons at this point? Maybe. There’s always some flux but they would have to be Soul Hackers Odin, Zaou Gongen, Adam, Eve, and probably… Baldur.

Really Long Ask Lmao

And a final word: since you seem to be reading my blog, don’t let my (many) criticisms of the series let you down too much. They’ve really only come about after massive amounts of time with the series and having experienced practically everything it has to offer.

Naturally, when you’re in such a position you want to see NEW things and I think SMT is more than capable of delivering them. Most criticisms come from this perspective and how it is not in my opinion living up to that potential, instead recycling past ideas and broad genre tropes. It bums me out and I’d guess you’d say I’m fairly outspoken, lol.

Thanks for submitting and enjoy SMT!

bossviper28
1 year ago

Masterlist for Other Works of Mine

Because I’m realizing how disorganized/bad at tags I am. One Shot Works: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/610893687539564544/an-odd-day-for-a-normal-girl (Description: Marinette is a normal girl. No Miraculous, nothing unusual in her life…except she’s in love with the Ladybug holder and is best friends with Chat Noir. Oh, and she’s being thrown into some dumb fake dating situation. Great.)

https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/190458693897/a-ladys-scout-and-the-salt-within-her-soul (Description: Marinette is assumed to be a hero scout for Ladybug, and shows her salt by…making gifts?)

https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189729234197/what-do-you-think-of-this-marinette-is-with-both (Description: Marinette just wanted a break, and so she created an illusion. A fake fight, fake Akuma, to get everyone off of her back. She didn’t expect it to lead to Hawkmoth’s defeat.) (An Ask)

https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189536099637/not-too-much-salt-alya-and-nino-get-lila-to (Description: Alya gets Lila to babysit so she and Nino can go on a date. However, an angry ex-babysitter gets Akumatized and decides to create an army of children…and Lila values herself over Alya’s siblings.) (An Ask)

https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189336564692/from-white-to-purple-she-leans-into-him-eyes (From White to Purple…a ‘what if’, where Chat Blanc!Adrien didn’t get left in his own world, but came to Marinette’s. Spoilers for Chat Blanc!) (Based on a prompt I saw) Stupid and in Love:

Part One: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188416406372/stupid-and-in-love-origins 

Part Two: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188544944147/stupid-and-in-love-origins-part-two

Part Three: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188616423957/stupid-and-in-love-origins-part-three 

Part Four: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189108091812/stupid-and-in-love-p4

Part Five: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189779609402/stupid-and-in-love-p5

bossviper28
1 year ago

The Long Awaited Masterlist for Make a Change

Part One: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/187632539317/make-a-change-p1 

Part Two: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/187733021387/make-a-change-p2

Part Three: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/187787813752/make-a-change-p3 

Part Four: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/187911133227/make-a-change-p4

Part Five: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188012159482/make-a-change-p5 

Part Six: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188155242782/make-a-change-p6

Part Seven: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188245262267/make-a-change-p7 

Part Eight: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/188795065992/make-a-change-p8 

Part Nine: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189461647642/make-a-change-p9

Part Ten: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/189828102132/make-a-change-part-10 

Part Eleven: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/190150565512/make-a-change-part-11 

Part Twelve: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/190461628627/make-a-change-part-12

Part Thirteen: https://salthaven.tumblr.com/post/190867284347/make-a-change-p13

bossviper28
1 year ago

Fallen Emily AU Masterpost

Main comics

The Fall of Joy

A Spark of Hope

Missing You Something Terrible

Something Worth Fighting For

A Gentle Smile

(bonus!) Dad v Dad 2

Designs

Emily (Current)

Emily (Future?)

Asks

Adoption

The Vee's

(non canon) Redemption...

Sera Discovering Hope

Dubs

JoeyKatVA

Ep 1

Ep 2

Ep 3

RainMelody

Ep 1

Ep 2

Others TBA as they come out

Ep 3

Ep 4

Ep 5

bossviper28
1 year ago
If Taranza Isn’t In Wave 3 This Is Gonna Be Really Embarrassing

If Taranza isn’t in wave 3 this is gonna be really embarrassing

bossviper28
1 year ago

My Miraculous Ladybug Salt, Maribat & Adribat Requests and Prompts - Masterlist

All Miraculous Ladybug Works

—–

A Visit to Princeton Academy

Summary: Miss Mendeliev and Bustier’s class take a trip to the expensive private school Princeton.

Wait, the principal there is your best friend’s uncle? Wow, Lila, that’s amazing!

—–

A Grandfather’s Love

Summary: Curious as to why his granddaughter missed one of their weekly baking sessions, Roland Dupain decides to figure out why.

—–

The Assassin - The Protector

The Protector’s Vengeance

The Protector’s Entrance

The Protector’s Plan

The Protector’s Battle

The Protector’s Defeat

The Protector’s Past

The Protector’s Aftermath

The Protector’s End

Summary: He was tasked to assassinate the girl.

Not devote himself as the Protector of her and her best friend.

Fox!Felix (Arctic Fox) Art by @i-will-be-your-ace

Arctic Fox Redraw by @krissykat0207

—–

Listen

Summary: Ladybug has had enough of Chat Noir’s pestering for a date.

Too bad they argued about it in public.

—–

Disappointed

Summary: Alya remembers the time she was severely disappointed in Marinette.

But she didn’t expect the tables to turn - and a strong sense of déjà vu when they did.

—–

I’m Surprised You Don’t Recognise Me

Summary: Lila decides to blame Marinette for prank calling the Fire Department.

Luckily her friends and family are ready to defend her.

—–

Angel in Disguise

Summary: Lila’s a demon.

Luka’s an angel.

One wants to steal souls - the other, protect them.

It just so happens the two are targetting one soul in particular.

—–

Cupcake?

Summary: King Monkey, or Kim.

The boy with a crush on one Marinette Dupain-Cheng.

And hero that is terrible at keeping his identity secret.

—–

It’s Your Birthday

Summary: Adrien knows she’s been tormented by the whole class - all thanks to a liar.

Wouldn’t you know, it’s Marinette’s birthday, and he has the perfect present.

The downfall of Lila.

After all, Princesses deserve to spoilt.

—–

Of Brothers And Beverages

Summary: Marinette, along with her co-worker Adrien, notice an exhausted teen at the coffee shop they work at.

Naturally, they decide to see if he’s okay - leading to a sibling-like friendship between them and Tim.

It’s no surprise that the delicious pastries Tim bring home catch his brothers’ eyes…

…and they decide to investigate.

—–

Domestic Anniversaries

Summary: As a surprise for their anniversary, Damian takes Marinette to the local pet store to adopt some animals.

And man, do they adopt.

—–

An Awkward Reveal

Approvals And Explanations

Headcannon

Summary: Who can blame Edward Nygma for being protective over his adopted daughter?

The very daughter who was dating Damian Wayne right under his nose.

It was only a matter of time until Marinette’s dad and uncles found out, along with her boyfriend’s family.

Now they want to meet her in person, much to the annoyance of the Riddler’s overprotective instincts.

—–

I Expected Business, Not…Babies?

Summary: Tim only wanted to complete his work in Paris - easily, peacefully, and most importantly, safely.

He didn’t expect to come across a villain turning people into kids.

Or one of those very kids thinking of him as their “Bwuda”.

—–

A Familiar Melody

Summary: Luka can hear a heart’s tune.

And can tell who’s is who’s - with or without the mask.

—–

Crazy Coffee Conspiracies

Summary: A theory about Ladybird and Red Robin dating…

…and both being aliens?

All it takes is an oblivious Adrien Agreste and one sleep-deprived Tim Drake to prove the theory true.

If it is indeed true, that is.

—–

A Mother And Her Instincts

Summary: It’s a mother’s instinct to protect her children.

And if said children happen to be Paris’s heroes?

Well, that only means that there’s more to protect them from.

—–

The Teeter In Your Tune Is Destined For Disaster

Summary: For as long as Luka could remember, he had possession of an ability that no one was aware of.

It was both a gift and a curse.

—–

You Were To Babysit, Not Abandon

Summary: Lila thinks that babysitting Alya’s sisters is a great way to manipulate the reporter.

Too bad she doesn’t realise what little devils they are.

Nor how a certain Adrien Agreste is so keen on keeping his friends, and their relatives, safe from her.

—–

A Bat Protective Of A Cat

Summary: Bruce Wayne, as the godfather of Adrien Agreste and practical brother of Emilie, takes it upon himself to save the boy from Gabriel and his emotional neglect.

Only, he didn’t anticipate the ladybug-themed heroine to barge in and try to bring back the partner that she thought to have been kidnapped.

—–

The Bad Get Outed In Bad Ways

Summary: You know the saying: ‘Liar, Liar, Pants On Fire’?

An akuma strikes Lila, with their goals unknown to most. It comes as a big shock to all when said saying ends up being true.

After all, she is a liar.

—–

The Demon And Her Angel

Summary: The demon Marinette Dupain-Cheng comforts her angel boyfriend after a falling out with his father.

And perhaps gives him a reason to think about if he truly wants to stay in heaven.

—–

Her Boyfriend, My Girlfriend

Summary: Marinette’s class is insistent on her turning up to a date with Adrien that Alya prepared.

What they don’t know is that she already has a date, with a boyfriend that none of them would expect.

—–

A Frisbee Flying At A Fiancée That Fled

A Dinner And Domestic Discussion With A Designer

Headcannon

Summary: Marinette and her partner Kagami flee Paris in an attempt to escape Adrien Agreste, and find themselves relaxing in a Gotham park not so long after.

Only for a stray frisbee to disrupt their date.

—–

My Cousin

Summary: By accident, Marinette and Adrien change Harley Quinn into a young teen using their magic.

What follows are shenanagins involving a jester, a liar, a dumb class and two hyenas.

—–

Queens Have No Need For A Prince

Knights Are The Ones That Save Royalty

Summary: Queens don’t need a prince.

What they want is a king.

—–

A Hidden Hades Hunting For (Hopefully) Her Husband

A Willing Persephone Is Welcome Whenever

Summary: He said he’d love her no matter what domain she ruled over - so why did he leave? Why did he not return to Earth?

Marinette makes the decision to make sure he does, and who knows? Maybe he’ll be okay with that.

—–

bossviper28
1 year ago

The Master: Master List

Here’s a list of all my fics

Here is my AO3. Refrain from looking at the cursed fics series or be prepared to cringe lol.

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Multiple Chapter Fic

Rising from the Ashes (Damianette) AO3

Making Do (With What Life Gives Us) (Daminette) AO3

Daughter of Deadpool (Daminette) AO3

No More Second Chances (Daminette) AO3

The Bride that can Break Bone (Daminette Betrothed AU) AO3

Twisted Fate (Daminette) AO3

One-Shots

I Only Have Eyes For You (Daminette) AO3

Sweet Lullaby Jasonette (sibling) AO3

All because of Cass (Hironette) AO3

Everything is Nothing without Her (Daminette) AO3

Lips are Chapped and Faded (Daminette) AO3

Where She Lay (Daminette) AO3

The Weight AO3

Mama Wanted Me to Kick Ass (Daminette) AO3

Duck Season (Daminette) AO3

Worth the Wait (Pre-Damiantte) AO3

His Beauty, Her Beast (Daminette Beauty and the Beast Musical AU) AO3

Faded Dreams (Original Story)

Misc.

Deadpool Bio! Dad (Daminette)

Prompt List AO3

Jasonette July AO3

Daminette December AO3

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Anyone can be added to a permanent tag list if ya ask. Also, don’t be afraid to talk with me and submit and stuff… idk.

Permanent Tag:

@ash-amg @lady-bee-fechin @damianette-is-life @mjisntme @i-will-be-your-ace @k-poplunardreams @chocolateherringtacofan @toodaloo-kangaroo @i-is-mysterious @imnotfluffy @nanakeid @animegirlweeb @long-lost-peace @iamablinkmarvelarmy @iamtheproblemchild @lilyreadbooks12 @abrx2002 @genderfluidmoma @maskedpainter @vixen-uchiha @kitsune-the1 @nathleigh @jumpingjoy82

bossviper28
2 years ago

Merlina’s True Nature

image

(This is a re-write to a past theory, but I felt it was written poorly so I’m redoing it.)

(I’ll also be discussing major spoilers for the game.)

Sonic and the Black Knight has gained a lot of popularity recently, almost a cult following. Even before Lancelot and Excalibur Sonic were added to Sonic Forces: Speed Battle, it was gaining a strange resurgence in fan-made content. Although maybe I just follow @silvermun​ too closely. Either way! It’s in the public consciousness again.

It’s mainly popular for it’s story, it’s gameplay being famously weird, and it’s story is something I feel it has over Sonic and the Secret Rings. They did much more research into Arthurian lore than they had too, and because of that, we got an interesting world and variations of known characters with their own appeal. 

Black Knight ranting aside, because of the resurgence a lot of eyes have been on Merlina the Wizard, an important character in the game. 

I loved Merlina before it was cool, but this theory came when I was surrounded by content for her, reaching a realization about her true nature, even… truer (?) than the Dark Queen.

⬇️continued below ⬇️

Keep reading

bossviper28
2 years ago
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “
“you’re Not Alone Anymore  Blake “

“you’re not alone anymore  Blake “

bossviper28
2 years ago
[ Open In New Tab For Better Resolution]

[ open in new tab for better resolution]

Zombie apocalypse AU  

Part 1 |Part 2 |Part 3  |Part 4 |Part 5 | Part 6 |part 7

bossviper28
2 years ago
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RWBY Zombie Apocalypse AU : Ch 11 Previous| Read from the beginning   A/N : This comic will be on a hiatus for now. Working on it is not as exciting as before (unfortunately) and I feel it’s not going where I want it to be . So am gonna step back and organize my thoughts for it and hopefully it’ll be back better than before. thank you all for sticking with it so far.

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