I Know What You Are.

matt stone and trey parker made me a considerably worse and more insane person

everytime a fanartist makes Joker a tumblr sexyman twink and not a) disgusting shrivelled up husk of a man or b) evil disney-villain-esque campy guy an angel somewhere dies.

Could you give me any Batman comic(/series) recommendations? Or Joker ones?

(You can pretend I’ve never read any Batman comics)

Man, this got me thinking about (1) the number of extended storylines I still haven't fully read myself and (2) of the ones I have, would I recommend that people read them?? Tough question! Thinking about it in terms of a Batman newbie changes things too... 🤔

Ultimately, my list is mostly one-offs apart from the mainline series, but there's a few multi-issue mainline stories in there. From oldest to newest:

Batman (1940) #1, "The Joker" and "The Joker Returns" — Early comics can feel inaccessible because of their age, but I would still recommend checking out the start of Batman and Joker's relationship for a sense of the longevity and evolution of these characters (You could also read Batman's first appearance in Detective Comics [1937] #27.)

Batman (1940) #251, "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" — Jumping ahead thirty years! After a 4-year absence from comics, Joker returns, and I just love how his dynamic with Batman picks up where they left off like it was yesterday.

Detective Comics (1937) #475, "The Laughing Fish" — The infamous story in which Joker's mad scheme is to… copyright fish.

The Dark Knight Returns #1-4 — TBH, I'm not a fan of TDKR for various reasons. However, it had a huge influence on Batman and you should read it at least once.

Batman (1940) #404-407, "Batman: Year One" — More required reading (but I do enjoy it more than TDKR). Frank Miller's problematique is more acknowledged today, but as I said, modern Batman stems from his work.

The Killing Joke — Controversial-ish recommendation nowadays, considering the much-maligned choice to fridge Barbara Gordon, but I still enjoy the nuance it gives Joker and the meta element of the ending, with Bruce and Joker trapped in their cycle by choices that are informed by the needs of the franchise. Alan Moore may no longer care for it, but I do! (Also, I'd say read it with the original coloring.)

Batman (1940) #426-429, "A Death in the Family" — Another big event in Batman lore: the death of Jason Todd. It's one of those moments that gets flattened in various ways today, so I think it's important to see how everything actually played out. In particular, it's striking to see that Joker is initially nervous about Batman finding out what he did, and just how Bruce struggles with his no-kill principle.

Batman #450-451, "Wildcard!" and "Judgements!" — Joker's big return after Jason's murder, in which we see he's still not all that giddy about it.

Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #65-68, "Going Sane" — This story takes place earlier in Batman's career, before Robin. When Joker seemingly kills Batman, he tries to start a new life without his instability breaking through. Meanwhile, Bruce recovers from his near-death in a little town in the middle of nowhere and thinks he might actually stay there… but he's plagued by restlessness too.

Joker: Devil's Advocate — Joker winds up on death row, but for a crime he didn't commit! Bruce is set on proving Joker's innocence despite the clown's other sins, and Joker is too captivated by all the media attention to help save his own hide.

Deathstroke (1991) #58, "Bad Blood" — A story in which Joker causes plenty of chaos, but in service of doing something… nice?

Batman: Ego — As Bruce contemplates giving up his crusade, he falls into an argument with… Batman.

Batman (1940) #648-650, "All They Do Is Watch Us Kill" — Part of Under the Red Hood. Jason Todd's reappearance in Gotham City comes to a head when he kidnaps Joker and draws Batman in for a dire confrontation.

Detective Comics (1937) #826, "Slayride" — Paul Dini is one of the writers who consistently remembers Joker has a personality and makes him funny, and this Christmas-time story featuring Tim Drake is a great example.

Batman Confidential #7-12, "Lovers and Madmen" — An alternative origin for Joker. Bruce has been fighting crime for about a year when he encounters a bloody crime scene that he can't make sense of. Meanwhile, the culprit, Jack, is growing bored with his criminal life, until he comes face to face with a vigilante bat.

Batman 80-Page Giant 2010 (Volume 2), "Reality Check" — Is Joker really crazy? Does Joker himself even know?

Batman (2011) #13-17, "Death of the Family" — Not to be confused with "A Death in the Family." Joker tries to convince Batman that all his sidekicks make him weak.

Batman (2011) #23.1, "Time to Monkey Shine" — Joker infamously adopts a gorilla. (It ends badly.)

Batman (2011) #35-40, "Endgame" — After Joker's failure in DOTF, he decides to bring his conflict with Batman to a close.

The Joker Presents: A Puzzlebox #1-7 — The Riddler is dead, but what really happened? A heist story in which the point of view is passed around multiple rogues, but Joker is the ringleader.

Catwoman: Lonely City #1-4 — Alright, this one does revolve around Selina, but the story is deeply tied to her relationship with Bruce and what she comes to understand about him in the end. (And Joker plays a brief but key part!)

Batman & The Joker: The Deadly Duo #1-7 — A recent team-up that calls back to everything I've personally enjoyed about Batman and Joker's dynamic.

Batman: City of Madness #1-3 — Beneath Gotham lies Gotham Below, from which a monstrous mirror of Batman escapes in search of a Robin. In his pursuit, Bruce confronts not only alternative versions of his rogues but his personal demons.

gay new yorker. faggot about it!

Its this

If you ask me, a pack of wild dogs is the most iconic thing to be torn apart by

if you ever feel insecure about something just imagine you are a 4channer

example: All these normie fakecels would not be able to comprehend what it's like to have to tallmaxx and gymmaxx as a transpilled shortcel to get a femoid...

oo do you have examples of issues that very clearly show jokers avoidant attachment style? I would guess on some level the ending of death of the family?

Well, I said that both him and Bruce rather fit the disorganized attachment style, which is also known as fearful-avoidant-- but Bruce has more "fearful", Joker has more "avoidant".

Bruce, despite all his misgivings, has multiple long-term meaningful relationships. But in Joker's case... intimacy and affection are simply out of the question. Humanity is out of the question, like in the example you've given with Death of the Family. The only person we know for sure he cares about is Bruce, and even in Bruce's case he wildly fluctuates between declaring undying love and genuinely trying to murder him out of spite and resentment. The second closest person to him would be Harley Quinn, and I do think on some level he cared about her, but his relationship with her was manipulative and abusive-- and he tried to kill her too. All of his relationships, outside of the one with Batman, are shallow, and it's because he keeps them shallow. People are something to kill, use, or make fun of, not persons to connect with. If there's any sign of emotion, Joker considers it a weakness. Caring gets you broken above a vat of acid at ACE Chemical factory, with a bat from hell scaring you into committing suicide.

Though I don't think Joker started out so avoidant, much like Bruce... who also started out as something else. Personally I see Bruce as having had an anxious/fearful attachment style prior to his parents' death. But then the loss pushed him into avoidance, and ultimately resulted in him displaying a disorganized or fearful-avoidant attachment style as an adult. Joker might've been fearful-avoidant to begin with, if we go by the likeliest background for him: growing up with abusive parents, then living in orphanages and foster homes, etc. Even the one interaction (remembered reliably or unreliably) with Jeannie in The Killing Joke points to a fearful-avoidant attachment:

Batman: The Killing Joke

He's blowing up at Jeannie, projecting his own self-hatred on her, and then immediately swings into begging for forgiveness. In the end, the core thing about disorganized attachment is... instability. Growing up, the child does not feel like their caregiver is reliable, there to provide food or shelter or the most basic emotional validation. Parents who fluctuate between moments of love and affection and moments of violence and abuse teach their children that love is a minefield. One wrong step, and the landmine blows-- and you never know what sets it off, so you wildly overcompensate or avoid. And Jack acts more like this towards Jeannie: he explodes with anger, gets scared she'll react badly, and then begs for forgiveness. It's also clear that he thinks his value is based in what he can provide. If he doesn't have anything to give Jeannie, will she still love him?

But where Jack was more classically fearful-avoidant, Joker is a lot more avoidant. Even though his life-defining trauma happened as an adult, it profoundly affected his view on the world. As Joker, he still has a need for connection (otherwise we wouldn't have Batjokes)-- but he also hates it and is actively trying to snuff it out. It's a bit ironic that essentially, only with Bruce is where the fearful/anxious part of his attachment style still comes out. Just like with Jeannie in that example, we constantly see him go between "It's your fault I became a monster! I hate your guts and I want you dead!" and "I do all this because I love you! I'm the only one who understands you! Please don't leave me!"