Marika - Blog Posts
funny quirky elden ring headcanon that I might make a proper post for later:
Marika was in on the night of the black knives and was the one who chose Godwyn to be assassinated. She did this because not only did he make peace with the dragons during their war with them (which is historically not the way Marika likes ending her conflicts). But due to Godrick, one of Godwyns descendants calling the dragon in his arena "true born heir" and "kindred" it leads me to believe that… well… Godwyn and Fortisax were probably a lot more than just “close friends” if you get what I’m saying. And I don't think Marika would have liked that very much.
Elden ring endgame spoilers
You guys wanna know what I think the scariest thing about Radagon is? It’s the fact that in the bossfight against him he fights us using Marika’s hammer. He’s not even using his own weapon. There’s a very real possibility that he may have never even wielded that hammer before in his life (except when he was trying to fix the ring) and he is still a terrifying force with it.
From what I’ve come to understand Radagon seems to actually prefer greatswords when it comes to his choice in weapon since he has pretty substantial connections to multiple greatswords in the lore. For example there’s the moonlight greatsword that he got from Renalla and also the golden order greatsword which he reforged it into. On top of both of these there’s also the form he takes as the sacred relic sword that the elden beast wields. These may seem like rather superficial details but considering that all the major weapons he has connections too are greatswords I feel that it has some meaning to it.
Even after being sealed away for centuries, having his body crumble to pieces, not being able to use his sorcery knowledge and quite possibly not even using a weapon that he’s familiar with or fond of he still wrecks shit when the time comes down to it.
Oh boy here comes a long one.
My least favourite part about the elden ring fandom is probably how readily everyone blamed Ranni for everything horrible that happens in the game, completely stripping away any agency Marika or anyone else had in the whole ordeal.
Through a grief stricken rage over Godwyns death or not it was Marika’s decision to shatter the elden ring, bringing her age to a bloody end. It was her choice to put all the Demigods against each other in a big bloodbath of a war and it was Radagons decision to seal the erdtree so nobody could enter and fix the whole mess, condemning the world to stagnation. And on top of all of this it was the Demigod’s themselves who followed through with Marika’s wishes tenfold and tore the lands between to shreds in their war path.
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This isn’t even going into the fact that overtime, more and more evidence has cropped up that Marika was planning to revolt against the greater will for a long while before Godwyns death, so the shattering might have not even been caused by it in the first place. There’s breadcrumbs of this secret plot leading all the way back to the end of her first marriage with Godfrey, where she banished him and his tarnished warriors specifically to wage war in distant lands and grow stronger in death, to eventually be called back when she deems it time (which just so happened to be through the shattering itself).
If any one soul person is to be responsible for the shattering (which I don’t believe to be the case) and all the lives it ruined, it would be Marika. Ranni might have been the person to light the spark, but it was Marika who decided to throw that spark into the forest, and tell everyone else to follow suit until it was nothing but a blazing, chaotic mess.
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Don’t get me wrong. Ranni isn’t an innocent little snowflake in this whole ordeal either. She did still plot the assassination of Godwyn, armed and set loose the black knives upon the world (who seemingly went rouge at some point considering they’re leader’s trapped on the moonlight alter and they went after Ranni’s lot after she attacked her fingers), royally pissed off Maliketh by stealing from him and inadvertently spread the second most annoying, deadly plant across the lands between. She’s not innocent by any means, but she’s also not more guilty than any other character in the game.
Like, you really gonna look at the shit characters like Rykard, Shabiri and Mohg pulled and still tell me that Ranni is the most evil, selfish, heartless character in the game?
One thing I’ve been thinking about recently that I just cannot get out of my head is why Marika shattered the elden ring? I mean, it’s all well and good to just say “Oh it’s because she was driven mad by the death of Godwyn of course” but I just don’t think that’s quite right. Not only does it feel weird to assume the shattering was just some spur of the moment decision done in an emotional outburst when it was very clearly planned in quite a lot of detail but it also doesn’t really add up with the timeline since Godfrey was presumably sent out of the lands between long before Godwyn died and that seems to be a massive part of what Marika’s plan was.
I think I’ve come up with a semi possible alternative reason as to what could have driven Marika to destroy her own order.
Ok hear me out here.
What if she instead betrayed her order because of what happened to her omen children? I mean, think about it. They are still her children after all and she had to abandon both of them as infants to a life of hell because the greater will (or the golden order, could be both) doesn’t like Omens.
We know that the GW was a pretty controlling (and rather petty) god when it was in power so it definitely had the ability and motive to strong arm Marika into doing things she wouldn’t want to. Even if she did want to keep the twins with her, what choice would she have had with that sort of being looming over her head 24/7?
Imagine how much that would destroy your faith in a system. Her own children, subjected to a life of pain and ridicule because of the way they were born all because her god (or society) says so.
I find it hard to believe that she wouldn’t at least have some conflicted feelings over the whole ordeal.
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I think the biggest evidence I have here is the fact that the omen twins were not only gifted greatrunes upon the rings shattering (something only granted to Marika’s offspring) but Morgott was even ‘given grace’, which is something Marika has a lot of control over.
Even after being born omens and being abandoned early on in their lives Marika still considered them enough of her kin to be given a chance in the shattering race. Now you could argue that them getting their greatrunes was just a happy accident but I really don’t think the same could be said about Morgott being grace given. That seems like a very conscious decision.
We can even see that Godfrey himself had some sense of fondness (or at least respect) for Morgott from the way he holds and speaks to him in his opening boss cutscene, is it really so out of the question that Marika may have felt the same?
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TLDR
What if Marika having to abandon her Omen children because of the greater will and golden order was the catalyst that began her plot to shatter the ring and end her own order?
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
oh yeah! almost forgor
The Crucible is likely the other half of the primeval current, kind of? In my mind, with how the primeval current represents the ever expanding universe, it can kind of be compared to a stream of water. and in that water sediment gets picked up and tossed around and deposited, that being aspects of the crucible, life itself i guess? born from the One Great's death explosion; yet instead of a dichotomy of life and death, Creation and Devouring; it'd be more like Life itself being born, then Time running its course, leading to eventual death.
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
Star Theory: Elden Ring outer gods and the 'nature of the universe'
(I'm feeling particularly neurotic so you're suffering with me)
SO, in case you aren't aware, which is entirely possible i barely knew of it before, but stars have life cycles! Which is weird, right? And the fact that it's never brought up in Elden Ring despite the fact there's this sense that Markia and everyone is supposed to be old as hell? And there's an entire academy dedicated to learning of the stars?
Well, dear reader, do I have the explanation for you! This will be long winded, so bear with me! And if there's someone who's already done this, you should probably listen to them instead!
first and foremost, stars are made up of conflicting forces, gravity pushing in, heat pushing out. But, to keep things more poetic, and in line with the whole fantasy aspect of elden ring, let's call it the Devouring aspect and the Creation aspect. Gravity creates pressure, trying to devour itself, but creates it's own feed to feast upon. Easy to follow?
As such, everything exists in perpetuity, creating itself and living in cycles? Or more importantly, every action has its equal opposite reaction. Life begets death, so on so forth. So everything lives in duality, having one part of itself necessary to oppose to creat more of it.
now, that's just how a star works, but there's more than one type of star, and thus life cycles.
this is a more rudimentary visual, but it gets the point across, alright?
Quick to start, let's cover backstory (or at least what I assume the backstory is) of the One Great, Greater Will, and what not for a quick understanding. But keep the visual in mind!
First, we can safely (?) assume that the One Great from Hyetta's dialog is likely in reference to the big bang in some capacity, so that's the beginning of the universe covered. One Greats dead, created everything, blah blah blah.
Next! As said in something about the glinstone sorcerer Azur(?) he witnessed the Greater Will's death, where it likely then became a Black Hole (the mass death of stars around it?) [Comet Azur and the Primeval Current is likely in reference to the nature of the expanding universe, akin to how water spreads out from a droplet of water, just on a mass scale i guess, given it almosg looks like rushing water to me]
Wverything after that and during when the Greater Will was up and running? no idea, not really important for my argument anyways.
So where does that leave Metyr and Elden Beast? Well, Metyr has the Neutron star attack, and given that she's the prodigal daughter of a dead god, it seems like she witnessed at least some of the death maybe? Or is at least aware of the 'end' of gods in something capacity, maybe. Elden Beast however seem more like stabilized core of a star given its veins of gold, and given that the Greater Will was a God of Order, it makes sense that at least one of them seems somewhat stable. (Sorry Metyr)
On to the outer gods and the necessity of duality!
As you can see, there are multiple forms of stars! Red and Yellow as main focal, with maybe othefs?
So! Let's start with the obvious,
The Blood Star- red? Check. Small or large? Eh. Formless Mother? What?
As I said about duality, and stars, one begets the other. The Devouring agent and the Creation agent.
Specifically, let's take a quick detour through religious inspiration. And I'm gonna make this quick.
*There is this belief that a whole being is made up two people, one masculine one feminine. Greeks had it in the creation mythos of man, and there's probably a Buddah or two that have the same shtick, unfortunately I'm not overly familiar with that game, but you get my point.
And in some eastern beliefs, i believe Taoism, there is a dichotomy between the masculine and feminine. One physical and other spiritual, repectively*
Point is, if stars can represent outer gods, and a whole being is made up of two. Than it's likey that Devouring agent and Creation agent have their respective gods conjoined into one star but still separate identities! (So Marika and Radagon?)
-The easiest outer gods to apply this logic to are the ones I mentioned up top, The Blood Star and Formless Mother. Both deal in blood, one masculine and demanding sacrifice of blood in the physical, with the whole history of blind prisoners. while the Formless Mother 'asks' for blood with 'promises' of something in return, a bargain like upping Mohgs wings to a latger size, and has a more creation aspect given the Mother moniker. As well as 'gifting' her blood to people, such as Mohg, and a piece of her flesh in the DLC blood fiends cult cave place that they apparently ate. Perharps, some kind of desire to be devoured in the sense of missing a whole part of the self where life is born from death? Through the pressure of the star then creating heat?
-Next would be: The Rot! I think that with the whole Lake of Rot being a more red-red color, it was defeated by the blind swordsman(? right?) when it was in its masculine phase, and then switched over into the more feminine side, trying to spread it's influence through any means necessary as a dying star! Thus taking on a more pinker color through Romina's bud, being 'born anew' by it in some capacity and also seemingly taking nest in feminine figures, Romina and Melania! (Also through Milicent being 'born' of Melania through odd means?)
-The Twin Birds would likely be a blue star in some capacity, likely quite large given that they represent death and all that. However, that's as far as I can get really. And death has its whole thing going on with Godwyn as well and I just don't wanna touch it.
-The Fell God and The God Devoring Serphant (Not the Abyssal Serphant) are kind of intertwined due to proximity, and the giants forge having serphants on it. As well as Rykard and Eiglay being in a volcano, as opposed to the giants forge being on a mountain top surrounded by snow. Life, Death. Fire, Ice. Duality, ya know?
-The Abyssal Serphant likely exists in duality to the One Great rather than something more simple, which is why it snake imagery slips into everything despite everything being born of the One Great. Abyssal Serphant devours, the One Great, creates. Not specifically a star, but it's good to get it out of the way now real quick. But will show up later! And it's similar to Dark Souls!
-The Frenzied Flame, the big doozey. You know how I said everything exists in duality? Well, what better way for duality to exist then for duality to be dual in itself? If you want 2, you can't just have the single number, you need two! So why not 2 and 3? Confused yet? Duality needs duality to be duality. As such, Order is Chaos. That easy.
-The Greater Will and The Frenzied Flame, are two sides of the same coin. Creating order, the other wanting to burn it all down. A microcosm of the One Great and The Abyssal Serphant pretty much. The first wanting to continually exist in perpetuity creating, the other a harbinger of the end itself. Heat death of the universe pretty much, i guess.
-The moons?
I don't wanna talk about the moons. In our guiding stars very own lordly words, Count Ymir, they are simply the closest celestial bodies. (I'm lying)
Okay so what's up with tem? Are they gods? No? Then what are they? If they are gods, then why isn't there a god of the Lands Between? It's a terrestrial body isn't it? If the moon is like greek myth, the titan Selene, where is Gaia?
Well, that's where Marika (and Radagon) come in. So, as we learned in the DLC, a god requires a lord, and when we finish the main game, unless we choose Ranni's ending, we become Marika's consort. So, perhaps it's something similar to such? The necessity of duality?
-My leading theory, with everything else already explained, is that maybe the Greater Will was an outer god, killed Placidsaxes god? In some way? And then needed some kind of 'vessel' to keep the lands intact and in order. Thus, Marika. The chosen Empyrian. (The Gloam Eyed Queen is likely another Abyssal Serphant coming up through the cracks of creation, in opposition to the One Great/Greater Will 'lineage'? It's another microcosm)
-But then Radagon? How? well, if a god requires two forces acting against each other, makes sense that he's the masculine force to Marikas feminine and spiritual, whole shaman thing, side. Thus creating a whole god, but yet only one i regarded as a god, with Radagon yet to become her; in that famous line Melina tells us.
-But then Ranni? And Miquella? Well, Miquella got his consort, and divested himself of his femininity; when it likely made him a true god in the first place or at least the empyrian in the lead to godship, but we kill him so who knows.
And Ranni is backed by the moon. And I don't wanna talk about the stupid moons and her four arms. She divested herself of her flesh anyways, so who knows!
-The shadow bound beasts aren't even really fleshed out, Miquella doesn't seem to have one, so I'm not sure where they stand in all this. Maybe they really are just failsafes and Miquella didn't need one because he wasn't going in a drastic direction according to the Greater Will (technically Metyr but whatevs)
yeah and I think that's it. thanks for reading!
Theory: Messmer's timeline and story will only make sense if you consider him Marika's beloved firstborn
Aka, welcome to my doomed Mother & Son presentation slide 🔥🫡
This is written with the assumption that readers are aware of the big reveal regarding Marika's past.
(spoilers for SoTE and long discussion from Messmer’s birth to his final moment)
edit to add this dialogue from Gideon:
EDIT 2: Messmer's helm description literally stated he accepted his fate. he was just brooding sitting in the dark minding his own business, & he'd have been fine for a long time more if the Tarnished hadn't sauntered in & triggered all of his insecurities at once.
hell, he's still maintaining the jar clinic, the Keep still shows signs of activities, his "suffering" is him not being able to see his mom. but it is what it is, he already accepted that. yet people still love to blame Marika while we are the one fucking his brain chemical up???
his bros are throwing a divine disco light party next to his house and he's like "i do not care 🫤 i do not see 😑". he doesn't even give a shit there would be a new God (as long as it's not his mom marrying someone he deems unfit). i think he'd even take up gardening while waiting for Marika to pick him up, no problem. why can't we just tell him his mom is imprisoned istg
EDIT 3: clarification on the mistranslation of Messmer's armor description
*Shadow of the Erdtree late game spoiler under the cut !!!
I’m going to throw up … it sounds crazy but. I think I know what the Hornsent did to Marika’s home village now. And why she hates the Omen so much, why Messmer shows them no mercy 😭😭
Please, look closely at the jar innards in Belurat Gaol… they look like Marika … 😭😭 even the brand on their forehead looks like a mix of her and Radagon’s current symbol (as seen on their soreseal)
If my whole family were kidnapped and stuffed into jars because others thought it’d make them "good", I’d go insane, become literal God and take revenge on them too idk.
This is the text outside of her village:
Have mercy. And the two items in the village indicates that Marika wrapped the whole place in a healing spell, knowing full well there is no one left to heal. Grief. Her grief and love protect that place all this time (before the village are two Tree Sentinels).
The only place in the Land of Shadow still bathed in Gold. And now Messmer guarded it with all his heart. Holy shit.
If Marika came from a village whose ppl were thought to be inferior and should be stuffed into jar to be reborn, yet she went and became a God, while the Hornsent failed to reach divinity, despite proclaiming themselves “chosen people” (Stalwart horn charm +2)… yeah I can see why they said she betrayed them and that she’s a wanton strumpet. 🙃
Also I think the “seduction” is from the Two Fingers, telling her to accept being a vessel to the Elden Ring and it’ll grant her the power to avenge her people. Look where she ended up now 🙂
There, I solved the story trailer.
EDIT: you can find a Numen’s Rune in Jarburg 🙃
Me 2 years ago: haha why is there Numen’s rune in Jarburg? Aren’t they Marika’s people? So random ! 😄😄
Me now finding out it’s because Numens were the original jar innards: ….
EDIT 2: it’s confirmed in-game that the shamans from Marika’s home village is the jar innards…
the golden hair... be serious with me right now
EDIT 3: She was salvaging the remains of her people and made them the symbol of her divine ascension. their death and suffering would never be forgotten, and the day will come when vengeance would be theirs.
Thank you for coming to my tedtalk 👍
EDIT 4: Update about the mistranslation of Greatjar description leading to players thinking people from Marika’s village are also helping Hornsent hunt down their own people. They are not!
