I’ll agree that is usually Ron who is a more dynamic character and he is usually the one one who seems to put more effort/is more invested into their relationship, (but this can be easily explained by S4 focusing more on him) but a lot of the things you are complaining about are just a result of judging a cartoon by real world standard and taking it far too seriously.
All of the points you brought up were just scenes that are meant to establish the plot of the episodes or show the changes the characters were going through, like the coupon scene was to establish Kim and Ron needed jobs.
And Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date isn’t bad, she is communicating her needs and that’s a good trait in any relationship.
I'm aware they're scenes that were brought up to establish plot.
What's your point?
Maybe I am taking a cartoon too seriously, but that's my perogative.
If it bothers you, you don't have to follow me or see my posts. I'm not going to force you, or even hate you if you decide that my blog is not something you'd like to see regularly.
It's not for everybody, and I don't blame people who decide this isn't for them.
Yes, Kim expressing she wanted something different for their next date is good. My biggest complaint, and that's on me for not making it clear, is that when Ron did provide her with something new, she pouted and moped.
At a ceremony Ron's dad was being honored at.
It might not have been the most exciting thing ever, and I could understand the disappointment, but for an almost-adult, pouting and moping is kind of immature behavior.
Her sarcastic comment of "Yep, real exciting" also wasn't necessary.
Ultimately, it's not bad the she wants something new, it's bad that she doesn't offer specific ideas but complains about what Ron arranged anyways.
I understand that most of what I complain about is meant to establish the plot of the episode. I just think there were better ways to do that.
The coupon scene: there could have been other ways of establishing Kim and Ron wanting and/or needing jobs.
For example:
They're seniors who want a bit more independence and spending money than their allowances can provide.
Kim's saving up for a car and Ron's saving up for a new scooter.
They're both hoping to put extra money in their college funds.
Kim might want new clothes and Ron might want a new gaming system.
Kim wanted the employee discount at Club Banana and Ron wanted the employee discount at the places he applied to.
Any combination of the above.
There are definitely other scenarios in which they'd want and/or need jobs.
Kim complaining about Ron using coupons for their dates, despite not financially contributing to them herself, didn't have to be one of them.
Bonnie wasn’t supportive of Ron she was enabling his worst traits (traits that were born out of insecurity ) Kim keeps Ron grounded and acts as the voice of reason or as an inspiration to come out of his shell when he lets his fears consume him.
She has moments where she is harsh and even unfair but a few of them are intentional and outright shown how she is decidedly in the wrong and at the end of the episode Kim and Ron always come to a mutual understanding.
I feel like many of your issues aren’t with Kim’s herself, but rather with the way the narrative treated each of the characters.
Ron was stuck with the comedic relief role even though that no longer fit him, Kim had to be written as a role model so her flaws were never taken seriously nor addressed.
I think this is the issue, the way the narrative treated them both. Technically Kim’s character is as muchof a victim to the narrative as Ron was.
So, I guess we have different opinions on this. But if those were Ron's worst traits, then he's a Saint.
Or whatever the Jewish equivalent would be, if there is one.
Because the things Ron's done in "Ron Millionaire" are:
Literally gives money to classmates and Barkin. Not seeing anything wrong with that. Maybe not smart to advertise how much money he has, but not a bad thing to do.
Complains about getting adult lettuce instead of baby lettuce. He definitely could have been nicer, I'll give you that.
Kind of goes over the top with insisting on being called "The Ron" but, again, it's not bad, just a little annoying.
Forgets to put Kim on the guest list, but this was probably unintentional. We don't even know Ron made the list, and he certainly didn't seem like he was trying to avoid Kim.
Tries to buy gaudy jewelry. Maybe not what I'd do, but it's not harming anyone, so I'd keep my mouth shut.
Buys a private jet, with auto-pilot, and a special forces team for missions. At least Kim appreciates that.
So, his "worst traits" are not bad.
And they're still way better than Kim's worst traits.
Kim doesn't need to dismiss Ron's feelings to keep him grounded.
She's not inspiring Ron to step out of his shell by forcing him to do things he's uncomfortable with.
It is entirely possible for someone to keep their friend grounded, inspire them to step out of their shell, and be kind and supportive, even for a high schooler.
Kim and Ron may come to an understanding by the end of some episodes, but it doesn't seem to be enough for her to actually treat him better.
I am perfectly capable of acknowledging Kim as a victim of the narrative and as a horrible person.
From A Writer's POV: Kim is a victim of a narrative that refuses to let her be vulnerable, even if it means she can't be kind, either.
In-Universe: Kim is majorly controlling, hypocritical, possessive, uncaring, condescending, and judgmental.
I can have both POVs at once. They're not actually contradictory.
But my acknowledgement of Kim as a victim of the narrative doesn't negate the fact that, in-universe, she treats Ron horribly.
So, for me at least, it's not just that Ron's a victim of the narrative, it's also that Ron's a victim of Kim.
Not the same anon but Kim has the right to get annoyed at the coupon thing, that scene gave me second hand embarrassment and i think is incredible ooc when Ron in previous seasons had already done things like get a job and being good at it and done things like buy Kim jackets plus there were the Naco royalties.
I feel like at that point, money shouldn’t be an issue specially for Ron, this is a case where the narrative ignored previous episodes to make a situation feasible. i didn’t like it either because Ron was made to look pretty bad as well.
His comedic relief status allows this scene to happen and is juts harmless comedy at the end of the day , but I wasn’t fan of how his character was portrayed in season 4 Ron usually got flanderized just for some cheap humor.
So, honestly, I'd be embarrassed, too.
Though, I can't remember the last time a high schooler, even a senior one, put so much stock into going to nice restaurants and not having to use the coupon and/or kid's menu to pay for it.
A real high schooler probably wouldn't care too much about how much the dates cost, but they would be embarrassed by the "doofy" and "stupido" thing, so I'll give you that.
Let me try making my complaint clear; Kim could fix the problems with their dating sitch herself, she just won't.
If Kim is embarrassed, she could offer to pay. She got a job way easier than Ron did.
Not to mention that, according to the narrative, Ron lost all his Naco money, and isn't shown ever getting more, so it's not like she thought he was rich again.
But Kim doesn't offer to pay, and also complains about how their date nights have gotten stale.
Again, I can't remember real high schoolers putting so much stock into doing something new and exciting for dates.
When Ron takes her to a nice dinner at the Actuary of Year Awards, where Ron's dad is receiving an award, she mopes the whole time.
She doesn't even pretend to be happy for Mr. Stoppable, she just mopes.
Can you imagine being happy if your significant other, one you've known most of your life, moped and pouted at a ceremony where your dad was receiving an award?
I don't think either of them is too OOC in "The Big Job" - Ron doesn't really like doing a lot of work for things he's not interested in, and Kim has a bad habit of caring too much about the price tag.
And that's honestly the worst part; they are acting in character.
But that doesn't make it right. Or fair.
Why does Ron get criticized for a having to use coupons to fund their dates to places most high schoolers couldn't afford to go to anyways?
Why is it bad that Ron doesn't pay for their dates without coupons, but not bad that Kim doesn't pay for their dates at all?
Sure, the whole "you're twelve" thing was embarrassing, but Kim's complaint wasn't about that one incident, it's about him using coupons at all.
If Kim thinks their date nights have hit a rut, she should probably offer ideas for dates, instead of just complaining about it and moping when Ron actually does take her to a new, fancy event for a date.
Okay, I get that the Actuary of the Year Awards probably wasn't very exciting, but it was Ron's dad receiving an award, she could have at least been happy for him.
But she pouts instead.
Basically, it feels like Ron is putting all the effort into pleasing Kim, and Kim keeps complaining about it. She offers no actual solutions, or gratitude for how hard Ron's trying, but complains about it all the same.
And she's not putting in that same amount of effort to please Ron.
Why don't they ever do something Ron would like for a date? Like go see "The Finger Guy" or a wrestling event?
I mean, they probably go to Bueno Nacho all the time, but it's not as though Kim doesn't like the place - she's willingly gone there without Ron before.
So, why is Kim the only one who gets special dates?
They're supposed to be partners, but their dates only reflect Kim's desires and interests; none of Ron's desires or interests are shown for their dates.
Ron seems to be the only one putting in effort to please their partner.
And that's not how healthy relationships work.
I know that the narrative itself always validated Ron’s importance, but I always felt bad about how little credit he got from the other characters, specially from the villains it felt unfair sometimes.
I know is mostly because he is the comic relief character and that’s his role, but many of the jabs done against him, felt incredible unfair like closing his restaurant, other characters never recognized how important his contribution to Team possible were.
Perhaps this is where the sentiment of Ron being underserving of Kim comes from? people see him being treated as unimportant or as a fool by other characters and assume that’s what he is, but there are plenty of episodes demonstrating this isn’t the case.
Yeah, there are a lot of episodes that show Ron is more than a fool. I have a whole post about it.
And, yeah, watching the other characters treat him like a loser probably influences the viewers' opinions of him.
Luckily, a lot of people know better.
I cannot imagine how Ron is undeserving of Kim.
He's supportive, kind, and forgiving.
(Maybe a little too forgiving, in my opinion.)
He's also got impressive skills when he chooses to use them.
And might be a genius, if his evil self in "Bad Boy" was anything to go off.
(The general consensus is: yes, it is.)
So, anyone who says Ron doesn't deserve Kim hasn't watched the show.
Reblogging to add an idea for season 4.
In "Homecoming Upset" Ron, after being stuck with the job of finding Bonnie a boyfriend, a job he did not want, realizes his relationship with Kim is still very unequal. When he attempts to talk to Kim about it, it results in an argument and them breaking up.
Whether Ron dates Bonnie or not after this is up to interpretation.
While I love the idea of Ron deciding to end things with Kim after "Crush", there are definitely other times when Ron could've ended his friendship with Kim, and if you're interested in that trope in fanfiction, I think you might find this list helpful.
After being forced into a haircut in "The New Ron", Ron decides Kim's controlling behavior is too much for him. He ends his friendship with Kim and calls her out for her behavior.
After using mind control on her brothers at the end of "The Twin Factor", Kim is grounded for a long time, leaving Ron to handle missions alone. This would cause Ron to realize his own skills, and put a strain on his relationship with Kim as she can't stand to watch him succeed on missions without her. Kim also finds herself with fewer babysitting jobs once word of her using mind control on her brothers gets around.
Kim finds herself getting fewer missions after word of her negligence and reckless endangerment in "October 31st" gets out. She also finds herself banned from Monique's house since she destroyed the garage door.
Upset over GJ thinking Ron is the secret to her success in "The Ron Factor", Kim tries the solo hero thing, and fails. Unfortunately, her parting had left Ron hurt and upset, and he's not interested in coming back to Kim.
After "Adventures in Rufus-Sitting", Rufus manages to communicate to Ron what happened while he was away, and Ron gets angry that Kim not only neglected and endangered Rufus, but lied to him about it. Ron ends things with Kim as he doesn't know how he can keep being friends with someone who cares so little about Rufus.
Ron comes back from his trip in "Exchange" with new skills, new confidence, and an unwillingness to put up with Kim's controlling behavior. So he takes a break from Kim when she gets to be too much for him.
After constantly being ignored about Gil in "Return to Wannaweep", Ron decides to end things with Kim and look for someone more supportive. Kim finds herself booted from the squad after they learn about how she intentionally sabotaged her own teammate to succeed.
Team Impossible from "Team Impossible" uses legal actions to keep Kim out of the save the world business, at least until she's 18, due to the reasons mentioned in my post about them. They offer to train Kim and Ron in how to be better heroes, but Ron is the only one who accepts.
Feeling abandoned in "So The Drama", Ron decides to confront Drakken alone. He succeeds, and it starts a new chain of events where Ron realizes how little Kim cares for him and decides he deserves better.
There might be episodes in Season 4 that could have Ron end things with Kim, but I feel like at that point it would take a lot, and Kim didn't do anything truly heinous to Ron so he wouldn't.
If anyone can think of any other episode where they think it would make sense for Ron to end things with Kim, please feel free to comment!
Bonnie only dated Ron at those times so she could benefit from his wealth and dumped him as soon as he was robbed. Also Bonnie was on the rebound and only flirted with Ron so that she could get back at Kim.
I never said her reasons for dating him had to do with liking him, I just said she was supportive.
Ron's upset that someone got him adult lettuce instead of baby lettuce? Clearly, they need to do their job better.
(Also, there is a difference; baby lettuce has more nutrients. So if someone had an exotic rodent to feed, the difference would be important.)
Ron wants to buy impractically large jewelry? No problem, it's his money, after all.
Calls himself "The Ron"? Okay, takes an adjustment, but no problem.
Ron wants to go to the re-opening of J. P. Bearymore's? No big deal, it makes him happy.
Though her reasons for dating him weren't actually finding him attractive, she chose not to criticize and judge him the times they were dating.
Also, her flirting with Ron, shockingly, had nothing to do with getting back at Kim. It was entirely because she was on the rebound and Ron happened to win Homecoming King. Honestly, she probably would've done that no matter who won, but it wouldn't have been dramatic if it had been anyone other than Ron.
Some additional thoughts:
I wish we were able to get tender moments between Kim and Ron in S4
In fact we already have a few of them, only for them to get cut short usually in comedic effect by another character or the show tries to undermine the moment by making a quick jab usually at the expense of Ron’s character.
I feel that paradoxically in S4 Ron had the most amount of character development and plenty of heartwarming moments, but the show still makes him the butt of the joke on those scenes, so despite having the most development his character is portrayed very dumb during some scenes.
Like in the scene in the episode Clothed minded where Ron tells Kim that her clothes is not what makes her Kim possible, she is the one who is amazing, Kim looking so happy and reassured about what he said and then the scene tries to make it “funny” by having Ron panic and go back on what he said, completely ruining and undermining the scene.
I’m not saying Ron isn’t allowed to be silly, is just that Ron being the comic relief and the butt of the joke no longer seems fitting for his character at that point, because he has developed well beyond that character archetype.
That doesn’t happen when Ron tells Kim “she is beautiful” and this is one of the most memorable KimRon scenes in the series.
I understand why this was done, they were afraid of putting too much romance, they didn’t want to scare the kids away, they had to make it funny and appealing to the little Kids somehow.
But I wish the show allowed for more personal, emotional and tender moments between the two. Sometimes I feel like S3 handled this aspect better than S4.
I’m sorry about all of the ask, I know you are not even a KimRon shipper, but you are one of the few people who has openly talked about the flaws of the show and about the way Kim was handled and this is one of the only ways I think I can safely address all of this issues and feeling I’ve had about the show for a long time.
Hope I didn’t overwhelmed you with all of the sudden influx of asks. Thanks for listening.
What do you think? Do you agree or disagree with any of my points?
Yeah, Ron outgrew the "goofy sidekick" archetype way before season 4. Maybe partway through season 2.
I have a post on how Ron deserved to be treated better by the narrative where I list the times Ron's done something truly amazing and it actually begins pretty early in the series. It's just so rarely acknowledged.
But, despite showing pretty early on what he's capable of, he was still the butt of many jokes, and the narrative never acknowledged that he grew out of that. It never really allowed him to grow out of it.
Simultaneously, the narrative never acknowledged that Kim might be flawed so she was never allowed to grow.
I understand how you feel; there are certain places on the internet where, if you try to criticize Kim Possible - the show or the character - you get a bunch of hate.
I don't know if it's because the nostalgia is too strong or what, but it can make someone afraid to criticize the show. But trust me, we're not the only ones who have issues with it.
I still have people disagreeing with me here, but at least I'm not getting hated on. People here are much more open to discussion about the flaws of the show.
(Or maybe I just got lucky this time. Who knows?)
I agree with all of your points, actually. I may not ship KimRon, but that's because their relationship was handled poorly, even before they started dating.
After they started dating, there should've been more tender and emotional moments between them. It sucks that we didn't see that very often. Or that, when it did happen, it was interrupted by something "funny" happening, usually at Ron's expense.
It felt like they weren't in a serious relationship because the relationship wasn't allowed to be serious.
I don't mind all the asks. I actually appreciate them. You're totally allowed to send me your thoughts about Kim Possible. I like having discussions with people about it. And I will do my best to reply to all of them.
The only moment of the whole show where Kim looks distressful (almost about to cry) in the whole show is when she thinks Ron died in the Christmas episode.
when she tells Ron she loves her in Clean state and when she confesses to Ron she is scared too. Those are amazing emotional moments that strength Kim and Ron’s relationship, but again they are so few and far in-between.
Again, all of this was because Kim was never allowed to ponder about her feelings, or have flaws nor be vulnerable
And I think this is part of the reason why some people in the fandom (I’ve seen a few, even though I disagree with them I get where they are coming from) dislike Kim and tend to pair up Ron with almost any other character (Tara, Bonnie, Yori or sometimes even Shego ) instead of Kim.
Kim is almost a non-character in the fandom, even on Kigo stories (Once I tried giving Kigo a chance, but I disliked almost everything about it, finding about the age-gap didn’t help) Kim is a non-character only being there to act as a prop towards Shego.
In the majority of the stories (even in KimRon stories) Kim acts more like a self-insert or as a prop to either Ron or Shego. 4_5
Yeah, Kim actually having realistic, relatable emotions is so rare in the show, it makes it feel like she's not even a character in her own show.
This is probably why she often feels like a non-character in fanfiction - she was never given enough emotional depth in the show to use in fanfiction.
She definitely had flaws, but they were so rarely acknowledged, and even more rarely corrected.
The only person to regularly acknowledge Kim's flaws is Ron, but he's usually not taken seriously. So Kim never feels a need to try and improve herself.
I know I prefer to ship Ron with other people because Tara and Yori were nice to him when Kim wasn't, and Bonnie was unequivocally supportive when they were dating in "Ron Millionaire" and really nice and kind to him in "Homecoming Upset" when she was trying to date him. Tara and Yori treated Ron better than Kim did at times, and Bonnie definitely had the potential for that kind of relationship with Ron.
I don't ship Ron with Shego for the same reason I don't ship Kim with Shego - the age difference makes me uncomfortable. It's pedophilia, even if nothing happens until Ron or Kim is eighteen.
They felt so odd and even out of character for Kim at that point, everything about the movie felt very season one-isn, Kim’s character felt off and even a little disrespectful:
Kim: “Ron is not boyfriend material, he is Ron ”
Bonnie: “you could end up with the president of the Chess club or worse” (as Ron enters the scene)
There are so many scenes where Ron is able to ponder about his feelings about Kim, there are many scenes where he does something that shows he loves her and in general seems to prioritize her happiness.
( little scenes like when he buys her a jacket, every time he is supportive and tells her she can do anything, that she is beautiful, when she gives her the credit for saving the day in the Ron factor episode, we have whole scenes where Ron’s character evaluated the way he feels about her and how important she is to him.)
I think is amazing how the cartoon portrays Ron as an introspective, open and emotionally available person (very rare in a boy character during that time, is amazing and part of the whole subversion of tropes the show had going on).
This is part of the reason what made me love Ron’s character and Kim and Ron’s relationship
But we almost didn’t get any of that with Kim, we barely ever saw how she felt about anything, she was never allowed to be as open and vulnerable about her feelings as Ron was. 3_5
Truthfully, even today, it can be hard to find a teenage guy character who is so open about his feelings.
So I do love that about Ron.
And I hate that Kim was never allowed that same vulnerability. She was only shown to have fears or insecurities a few times; fighting the Lorwardians in "Graduation", a newly discovered fear of giant bugs in "Roachie", and anything involving Josh Mankey.
And, even though she could experience fear and insecurities, it never made her sympathetic towards any of Ron's.
There where shows back then where the teen male protagonist was allowed to be emotional and vulnerable, so why isn't a teen female protagonist allowed the same?
I thought he we would see more of this on So the Drama, but again the movie focused more on Ron than on Kim
Now, I’m a huge KimRon shipper, I’ve made whole analysis, gifsets and even the occasional fanart. I love that paring.
But I hate how Kim and Ron got together in the movie, the Kim from so the drama seemed like the one from Season one, when the Kim from season 2 and 3 was very clearly in love with him the one of the movie….. how do I say this!
Alright there are still little scenes like the one where Kim complains about not wanting to go with a friend-friend to the Prom, how a “stinky boyfriend” would be nice for a change while she keeps looking at Ron.
There’s the scenes where Kim looks lovingly to couples passing by, when Ron approaches her and tells him he knows the reason she is looks down lately, Kim whole mood changed and she looks up, hopefully? Expectantly? The way I see it Kim very clearly was expecting him to ask her to the dance right there, but we all know that’s not what happened. Not yet.
But then we also get scenes where Kim seemed completely against the idea or even embarrassed about the possibility of going up with him to the Prom. 2_5
Yeah, the movie doesn't really hold up when you look at it again 20 years later. But few things do, so it's not *entirely* their fault.
But we get a lot of Ron pining over Kim and only the barest hint that Kim might also be pining over Ron.
And honestly, even before the movie, Kim had moments of being embarrassed by Ron.
I have many posts that highlight the ways Kim's treated Ron unfairly throughout the show, but I'm going to assume you've read them already.
I am a Huge KimRon shipper, I love them.
Ron clearly loved Kim and Kim very clearly loved Ron.
But don’t you think Kim and Ron relationship could feel one sided at times?
Like we have so many episodes where Ron is able to ponder about his feelings and show in various ways his love for Kim
5 love language: quality time, acts of service, giving gifts, words of affirmation etc. Always being there, always supporting her emotionally, being more emotionally available and open about his feelings. if that makes sense, I hope it does
Kim clearly also loves Ron, she tells him she needs him to save the world, her small moments of jealousy, there’s the Christmas episode where she gifts him an album full of their childhood memories, there are plenty hints that show how Kim could have liked Ron since the very beginning.
But there aren’t really any introspective or truly emotional moments where she thinks about her and Ron’s relationship or where we as the audience get to see how she truly feels about Ron. 1_5
Yes! Their relationship does feel one-sided! I have been saying that for years.
And it's not that I don't think Kim likes Ron on some level - because she does do nice things for him - it's that there are way more examples of Ron putting Kim first than there are of Kim putting Ron first.
And, for all the moments where Ron's feelings are discussed, we don't get that with Kim.
It's really disappointing.
I am going to respond to the rest of your asks.
Reblogging from myself to add an update: Upon recent rewatch, Kim offers to help Bonnie, Bonnie doesn't even ask, certainly doesn't force her to.
Then Kim leaves on a mission with Wade, forcing Ron to set up the Meet the Queen event to find Bonnie a new boyfriend, a job he didn't want at all, which leaves me with all kinds of conflicted feelings.
When the team decides to head to Italy, Bonnie is upset at feeling abandoned, so Ron offers to have her come to Venice with them.
So, Kim offers to help, and then immediately abandons the job, forcing Ron to pick up the slack. Not happy about that.
Also, I don't blame her for harshly rejecting Larry since he was picking his ear when he approached her.
Nor do I blame her for being so upset that Brick dumped her, since he had apparently promised that he'd be back for homecoming.
I do blame her for moving in on someone else's boyfriend. Regardless of my feelings on Ron/Bonnie as a pairing, moving in on Ron when he was already dating Kim was uncool.
What are your thoughts on Bonnie cheating to become the homecoming queen and the fact that she tried to steal Ron from Kim, going so far as to kissing him. Not to mention the audacity of her asking Kim to find her a new boyfriend not caring if she’s bothering her or not.
That was definitely a horrible thing to do. I don't justify that, nor do I condone it. This is one thing I do not excuse. I'm not overly fond of Kim, and I clearly prefer Bonnie, but I do agree that I'm on Kim's side on this one.
That being said, I don't actually recall Bonnie asking Kim to help her find a new boyfriend, I think Kim just did that on her own.
Actually, Ron was the one to set up the "Meet the Queen" event to find Bonnie a new boyfriend.
But, it has been a while since I saw that episode in full, so I could be misremembering things.
Alright, addressing several points:
First, the examples @kim-and-ron gave of Ron keeping things to himself are all things that happened after the first episode. They're fairly recent problems, so I don't blame Ron for trying to solve those by himself.
And he didn't keep his self image issues a secret in "Ron the Man", nor did he keep his fears about their future a secret either in "Graduation". So those don't count as examples to your point.
Now, to my point: those were recent problems, but in the past Ron has told Kim about every other problem he's had; Wannaweep, gnomes, robotic horses, etc. Before the first episode, he had never kept his issues a secret from Kim.
@gothicthundra I do agree that it's totally reasonable to still be learning things about each other, and I will concede my point about Shaun as his reign of terror probably began fairly recently.
But if you can agree that the frequency of game nights meant Ron should have known about them, then surely you can agree that the bullying, which was more frequent, is something Kim should have known about?
And, these aren't just people who are mean to Ron, these are people who were attacking him, threatening him, and stealing his money. Since kindergarten.
Are we supposed to believe that at five years old, Ron decided to handle people beating him up and stealing his money on his own?
Are we really going to believe that, in the entire time it's going on, he never had an injury from them, or Kim never wondered were Ron's money has gone?
Or are we supposed to believe that Ron lied about those things, when he's canonically a terrible liar and had no reason to lie in the first place?
He's been getting robbed and attacked since kindergarten, and we're really supposed to believe it never came up before?
As for how I'd fix that scene in "Monkey Fist Strikes", here:
Ron: "I know you and Larry don't have a lot in common, but is game night with him and your Aunt June really so bad?"
Kim: "It's not the game, it's that I'm forced to listen to him talk about his conventions or his "LARPs", and that I've been forced once a month since I was three years old. Last month I learned more than I ever wanted to about that Fortress game."
And there, we have an exposition that explains things to the audience without Ron being ignorant of something that should've come up by now.
And, even though no one's asking, I have a proposal for fixing the issue of Kim not knowing Ron was getting bullied in "Mind Games".
Firstly, we'd have to have the bullying start recently, like Middle School.
Secondly:
Kim: "When you told me you were getting bullied, I thought you were just getting made fun of. I didn't realize it was this bad, and my advice definitely wouldn't have helped. I'm sorry I didn't help earlier."
Ron: "Yeah, I didn't know how to say it, and I figured just avoiding them would work fine. But, thanks."
Kim: "That's what friends are for. You can always come to me if you need help. And I'll try to listen better in the future."
Ron: "Thanks, KP. And hey, it's the same for me, you know?"
Kim: "I know, you'll always be there for me."
Rufus: *chirps*
Ron: "And Rufus!"
Kim: "And Rufus."
And, one final point:
I can kind of see the point about Ron keeping some of his problems to himself, but it seems strange that he never told Kim about his interest in baking. That's not a problem that needs solving, it's a new interest that he was eager to try and share, so why wouldn't he share it with Kim?
Honestly, I am grateful to everyone who's commented on this. I do enjoy hearing everyone's points, even if I don't agree with them.
Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.
And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.
"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.
"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.
"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.
"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.
"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.
"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.
I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?
Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?
Would Kim grow as a character if she did the whole “young character reacting realistically to trauma” via Finn Martin, Anne Boonchuy and Luz Noceda?
She would probably grow as a character, at least a little bit, if she did that. It would at least make her more sympathetic to Ron's fears, so she wouldn't be constantly dismissing them all the time.
(Of course, I'm upset that she's constantly dismissing Ron's fears when she knows they were caused by traumatic experiences, but that's for another time.)
So, yeah, probably. And I think it'd be very interesting to see that.
It'd be nice to know that even the girl who can do anything experiences fear and trauma. And that experiencing those things doesn't keep her from being a hero, and it's not bad to seek counselling for it either.
It'd be really cool to see, I would love that.
What are your thoughts on Bonnie cheating to become the homecoming queen and the fact that she tried to steal Ron from Kim, going so far as to kissing him. Not to mention the audacity of her asking Kim to find her a new boyfriend not caring if she’s bothering her or not.
That was definitely a horrible thing to do. I don't justify that, nor do I condone it. This is one thing I do not excuse. I'm not overly fond of Kim, and I clearly prefer Bonnie, but I do agree that I'm on Kim's side on this one.
That being said, I don't actually recall Bonnie asking Kim to help her find a new boyfriend, I think Kim just did that on her own.
Actually, Ron was the one to set up the "Meet the Queen" event to find Bonnie a new boyfriend.
But, it has been a while since I saw that episode in full, so I could be misremembering things.
Wow, thanks! I genuinely appreciate the reply.
As for Kim's flaws being potential, I actually do agree with you. Those flaws could have led to interesting character development. The problem is that they didn't.
Kim never really stops being controlling. She never stops being jealous. And she only really starts treating Ron as a partner better after they start dating.
I would have loved it if those flaws had led to Kim growing and developing as a character, but they didn't. From the beginning, Kim was supposed to be perfect, so they rarely acknowledged her flaws, and didn't have her grow and learn from them.
This was, in part, caused by the show having an episodic nature; each episode stood alone and you didn't need to watch previous ones to understand the plot. It was detrimental to character development.
And, while I doubt the creators were misogynists, I'm not surprised that two grown men had trouble writing teenaged girls, as that problem still persists to this day.
I agree, Kim's flaws were potential. Unfortunately, they didn't actually lead to anything, and I feel like it's perfectly valid to complain about that.
But you managed to articulate my main point about Ron better than I could have, and I do enjoy you taking the time to interact with my posts! It means a lot to me, even if we don't agree.
You have a lot of gripes about Kim as a character? What about Ron though? Do you think they handled his character better then the rest?
Oh, good question! Yes, and no.
No because Ron is portrayed as a loser and a freak, the butt of many jokes within the series.
And so many people, females included, find themselves relating to Ron more than Kim, so it's a little bit insulting that the character most like them was the "loser" of the show.
And yes, because Ron actually got more character development than Kim.
And, while Ron has been known to be selfish at times, it doesn't usually cause harm to others.
There was "Ill Suited" where he stole Kim's battle suit to join the football team, but he had no way of knowing he could be putting others in danger as he had no idea Dementor was after the suit or had a way to control it.
And Kim called him out for it.
Whenever Ron is behaving badly, neither Kim nor the narrative will hesitate to call him out on it.
Most often, Ron puts Kim's interests before his own. And he certainly treats Kim better than she treats him.
So, Ron is treated as a joke, and often puts Kim's needs ahead of his own. When he behaves badly, he is called out on it. And for this reason, I think he was handled both better and worse than Kim
First off, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to reply to me. It doesn't happen often, so I do appreciate it.
Secondly, I'm going to politely disagree with you.
To address some of your points:
I will agree with you that Kim would try to hide an embarrassing incident from her childhood, and that Ron would probably have forgotten it, so I will actually agree with you on that one.
Ron agreed to forget that Shego and Kim get their eyebrows waxed in "Stop Team Go", so I agree with you there.
But it's revealed that Kim asked Ron to help her when her braces got stuck to Walter Nelson's in the eighth grade, so it seems like Kim calls Ron when something embarrassing happens. So him not knowing about the singing incident does seem unusual.
I can kind of see your point about Ron having his own interests, but he's been known to tell Kim about all of them; wrestling, video games, boy bands, etc. He's never had an interest Kim didn't know about, so her not knowing he bakes seems unusual.
He started baking after getting a toy oven for his eighth birthday, something Kim was around for, so it seems like something he'd tell Kim about almost immediately. For him to not tell Kim about it is unusual.
I appreciate your perspective on the family situation, but Kim and Ron aren't Latin American; they're from Colorado. Kim doesn't have a lot of cousins she hasn't seen since childhood. Larry's been coming over to her house once a month since she was three, and she at least keeps in touch with Joss via email.
Ron lives next door to Kim, so the fact that he never noticed Larry going over to Kim's house is unusual.
I can be more understanding of not knowing about Joss, since it does seem like they haven't seen each other in person in a while.
Ron doesn't strike you as the kind of character who would ask for help with things like that? No offense, but when was the last time you watched the show?
Ron is known to whine and complain about everything, especially to Kim. He asks for Kim's help with anything, so the fact that he never asked for help with bullies, either the ones at school or his cousin, is unusual and out of character for him.
He's known Kim longer than he's been bullied, longer than Shaun's been alive, and isn't afraid to ask for her help, so it seems strange that Kim never knew about either of those instances.
In "A Sitch in Time" it's revealed that they met when Kim saved Ron from bullies, albeit in the alternate timeline it was Drakken, Killigan, and Monkey Fist as toddlers, so it doesn't make sense that Ron wouldn't ask Kim for help with that.
I will grant that we don't know what event lead to them being friends in the unaltered timeline, but I feel my point still stands.
I have nothing against them still learning new things about each other, given that they're at that age where they're still learning new things about themselves, so I can understand not knowing some things about each other.
Ron's interest in boy bands was a fairly recent development, he didn't even like them before the episode.
Kim's obsession with designer brand clothes probably didn't happen until she had her own spending money.
Those are understandable things to just be learning about each other.
But the specific things I mentioned in my original post are things that they would've been reasonably expected to know each about each other by the start of the show.
Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.
And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.
"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.
"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.
"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.
"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.
"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.
"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.
I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?
Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?
Kim and Ron's dynamic seems...off. They don't seem like they've been best friends for ten years, it'd make more sense if they had only recently become friends, like in middle school.
And I'm not just saying that because Kim can be mean and judgmental at times, especially towards Ron. I'm saying that because, despite being best friends for 10+ years and living next door to each other, they don't seem to know things about each other that actual long-term best friends would.
"Monkey Fist Strikes" - Ron is aware that Kim dislikes her cousin Larry, but never knew about the monthly family game nights that have been going on since she was three.
"Mind Games" - Kim had no idea that Ron's been getting bullied since kindergarten. This especially makes no sense as this is something Ron would've asked Kim for help with. It definitely should have come up at some point.
"Two to Tutor" - Kim is genuinely surprised that Ron is good at baking, even though he's been doing it since he was eight.
"Hidden Talent" - Ron is unaware that Kim can sing, or that she has trouble hitting the high notes. Bonnie was able to obtain a video of this event, but somehow Ron was still unaware of it before now.
"Showdown at The Crooked D" - Ron is unaware that Kim has an uncle and a cousin, even though Kim actually seemed excited to see Joss.
"Bad Boy" - Kim is completely unaware of the existence of Ron's evil cousin Shaun, despite this being another thing that would make sense for Ron to ask Kim's help with.
I understand that they need a way to explain stuff to the audience, but can you imagine being someone's best friend for ten years, living next door to them, and not knowing about their family and interests?
Would they really be your best friend if you two knew so little about each other?
Would you say Kim was better in the last season? How much did she grew as a person?
Hmm...tough question. My answer may not be the most popular, but...
On the one hand, Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, so I'll give her that.
On the other hand, I mentioned that it was a bit unfair of Kim to keep expecting Ron to pay for nice dates to expensive restaurants without coupons and not offer to pay for them herself, or how annoying it is that she not only had the job handed to her, but Monique literally begged her to take it. ("The Big Job")
And, while I can somewhat understand her jealousy of Yori, she shouldn't have let that interfere with a mission. Nor was she sympathetic towards Ron about being forced out of his room for a baby sister he didn't even know he was getting. ("Big Bother")
It wasn't cool of her to be hassling Monique to break an NDA when Kim herself likely already knew what the consequences would be for Monique if she did, nor was it cool to have Wade look over the contract for loopholes. ("Fashion Victim")
And she's still rude and judgmental about Larry's interests, which happen to be interests that Kim knows Ron shares. ("Larry's Birthday")
So, while Kim's competitiveness seems to have died down, her need to control everything is still an issue, and she's still unnecessarily judgmental about other peoples' harmless interests.
So I guess Kim improved a bit, but still has some issues to work on that aren't fully addressed.
Sorry if that's not the answer you were looking for.
Thoughts on Yori and do you ship her with Ron?
I actually really like Yori and wish we had seen more of her.
She was unfalteringly, unconditionally supportive of Ron. And he definitely wasn't getting a lot of support back home at the time.
She wasn't jealous of Kim, ever. She was happy for Kim and Ron, even if meant Ron was no longer an option.
If things were different, Ron/Yori would have been a great couple, and I do like to imagine it sometimes.
But, for all her support, Yori wasn't a sidekick. She was extremely skilled, fiercely powerful, unafraid of combat, and willing to face danger to do what's right.
A lot like Kim in those ways, but supportive and patient towards Ron where Kim isn't.
I wish we had seen more of Yori because I feel like she could have helped Ron work on a lot of his issues, like his lack of confidence, and led to some great character development for him. Even if they had never ended up being a couple, their friendship would have been amazing as well.
Thoughts on Bonnie?
I have been waiting for this ask.
I'm probably going to get hated for it...
I don't think Bonnie's as bad as we're supposed to believe she is.
Sure, Bonnie's catty, mean, rude, petty, shallow, selfish, and more.
But that seems to be targeted 90% to Kim, 5% to Ron, and 5% to everyone else.
In other words, Bonnie doesn't seem overly mean to anyone but Kim.
Her fellow cheerleaders are seen hanging out with her instead of Kim quite often. And if someone as nice as Tara or pragmatic as Crystal prefers hanging out with Bonnie over Kim, there's probably a good reason for it.
And it might be the fact that, had it not been for Kim, Bonnie would've never stooped to sabotage in the first place. ("Return to Wannaweep")
Or it could be the fact that Bonnie can actually keep her commitment to the squad, and was willing to put in a lot more work to help the squad. ("Number One")
(I still don't think she willingly gave up the Captain position, especially not to Kim.)
Or that she would've been better able to be Chair of the Dance Committee, since she could fulfill her obligations and get Smash Mouth to perform, but Kim didn't care if Bonnie was better, Kim's own pride and ego, and rivalry with Bonnie, were more important than actually getting the job done. ("Queen Bebe")
Even Ron couldn't see a problem with Bonnie being the Chair of the committee.
(And I still have no idea what "throne" Kim was referring to.)
I wouldn't blame other people for deciding Kim is too competitive to hang out with regularly. She doesn't seem to put a lot of value in enjoying things, just doing them, and doing them the right way (her way).
And from what we've seen of Bonnie's romantic relationships, she dates guys who are genuinely nice and doesn't seem to be very mean to them either. She says Brick is "cute" when he can't think, instead of just calling him stupid or dumb. And the date we've seen her on was to a horror movie, so either Bonnie likes horror movies, she let Brick pick the movie, or some combination of both.
(I don't blame her for dumping soda in Kim's lap, Kim was talking throughout the movie, and being rude and condescending about it to boot.)
And from what I remember of high school, no one who's as mean as Bonnie supposedly is would actually have that many friends. They wouldn't even really have a lot of followers.
And Bonnie didn't just win the vote for Captain unanimously, she won it with everyone other than Kim being enthusiastic about her being Captain.
I think Bonnie's biggest issue with Kim is that Kim quite literally has things handed to her, doesn't have to work for much, and people are too enamored by the hero to notice the person. And Kim treats her best friend horribly which, shockingly, is not something we actually see Bonnie doing.
I think Bonnie's biggest issue with Ron is that Ron is so slavish towards Kim, and Bonnie sees it as pathetic and loser behavior. When Ron distances himself from Kim, she not only has no problems hanging out with him, but dates him, or tries to, and is unequivocally supportive of him. Which is...interesting, as it implies her issue isn't with Ron himself, but with how Ron acts around Kim.
But more to the point: the "mean girl" of the show treats people better than our hero does, and that says a lot about both of them.
Thoughts on the Ron/Monkey Fist rivalry?
They were great foils to each other; Monkey Fist craves power and is obsessed with monkeys, while Ron doesn't desire power and is afraid of monkeys.
But Ron is the one meant to become the Mystical Monkey Master.
Honestly, it was probably Ron's humbleness and the fact that he doesn't want power that made him worthy of it in the first place.
You know, only pure of heart can become the Monkey Master, or something like that.
One thing that irks me though is, even though Monkey Fist knows Ron is meant to be the Monkey Master, and thus usurp the power from him, he still refers to Kim as his arch-foe.
Which makes no sense.
He should be declaring Ron as his sworn enemy because Ron is the one meant to take the Monkey Power from him and Kim is just a teenage girl who saves the world.
But, then again, the show is all about Kim.
Kim's the one who saves the world and Ron is her bumbling sidekick, so of course Kim is his arch-foe, even though Ron is the established, pre-destined threat to his plans.
It's probably his ego that keeps him from acknowledging Ron as his arch foe, but I'd still think it'd be cool if one of the villains, other than Gil, actually viewed Ron as a serious threat.
And Monkey Fist is the perfect mandrill for the job.
Ron deserved better, from a narrative standpoint. Ron was capable of being more than just Kim's sidekick, and it would've been great to have that emphasized more.
In "Tick-Tick-Tick" Ron is the one who comes up with the idea of using hot sauce to short out the tick and a straw to remove it.
In "Bueno Nacho" Ron figures out how to work the laser after messing around with it for less than a minute.
In "Attack of The Killer Bebes" Ron is the one who made the connection that Kim's dad was the next target, came up with the plan to protect him and find out who was behind it all, and made an extremely convincing disguise in less than a day.
(I know Kim wasn't aware of any of this because she wasn't around, but Kim walking off the mission because she was mad isn't a good look for a hero. However, that's not the point of this post.)
In "Sink or Swim" Ron displays stealth, cunning, quick-thinking, improvisation, resourcefulness, and bravery. Even Kim acknowledges this, but only this one time.
In "Animal Attraction" Ron figures out that getting Rufus to eat corn dogs would make him heavy enough to press the button to release them. Simple? Yes. Effective? Also, yes. And most importantly, a plan that Kim had failed to come up with on her own.
In "Royal Pain" Ron manages to use a mini golf prop to stop a bad guy, aimed in such a way that Prince Wally, who was being held in the bad guy's grip at the time, wasn't harmed.
In "The Twin Factor" Ron manages to not just evade Kim and Shego, but trick Shego into undoing his bindings and lasts against them long enough for Jim and Tim to finish their silicon-phase disruptor.
In "Job Unfair" Ron used sneezing powder on Drakken, which managed to take both Drakken and Shego out of the fight. Simple, effective, and clever.
In "Naked Genius" Ron's mangler was actually a fairly decent weapon, especially considering he was just throwing random things together. And his idea to use it against all the armor was brilliant.
In "The Fearless Ferret" Ron actually makes a decent hero at the end, despite the fact that his mentor was a delusional man.
In "Exchange" Ron manages to kick a tree, that then splits cleanly and falls over. That is not a normal amount of strength. He also manages to make his clothes disappear during Bo practice, which, though embarrassing, is also a bit of an impressive feat.
In "Hidden Talent" it's stated that Ron proved quantity was better than quality, but Ron was actually good at half of the acts he performed; tap dancing, ventriloquism, and water glasses.
In "Return to Wannaweep" Ron figures out how to use his new beaver-like mutation and his surroundings to defeat Gil, and figures it pretty quickly.
In "Partners" Ron and Monique manage to build a donut-launching system relatively quickly, and it proves extremely useful in distracting a mutant dinosaur.
In "Oh Boyz" Ron manages to help the Oh Boyz escape by having them use their dance moves to throw off the motion-detecting lasers. He also taught himself their dance moves just by watching them.
In "Triple S" Ron actually did a decent job of staying on the tray and holding the umbrella. I'm not surprised people thought it was a new sport; an average person doing that on accident wouldn't have been able to stay on it at all.
In "Bad Boy" Ron builds dangerous and powerful devices, and has the foresight to track the Kimmunicator's frequency. And the only thing he switched with Drakken was morality, not intelligence. Thus, it's reasonable to assume that Ron is extremely intelligent, he's just not trying.
In "Overdue" Ron goes on several missions alone to retrieve a library book.
In "Stop Team Go" even Shego acknowledges that Ron turning evil again is very bad. And he sends a bunch of Wegos flying through the air immediately afterwards.
And, of course, Ron's powers come into full bloom in "Graduation".
TLDR: Ron was capable of being more than a sidekick, a solo hero in his own right, and it would've been nice if the narrative hadn't treated him as Kim's inept and clumsy sidekick, even when he's being amazing.
Bonus: In defense of his clumsiness, and less than stellar grades, Ron mentions in "The Fearless Ferret" that he has "a slight stigmatism" but that his doctor says he shouldn't need corrective lenses. As someone who needed glasses at Ron's age, and someone who had astigmatism, I can say this; Ron's astigmatism may not be bad enough that he is legally classified as visually impaired, but even with slight astigmatism, it can still make things blurrier than they should be and mess up his ability to see detail, read, and screw with his depth perception.
In other words, Ron isn't horribly clumsy or stupid, he just can't see.
What are your opinions on Mr. Barkin?
Barkin shouldn't be an educator. Or allowed to be in charge of children.
He runs the school like it's the military.
He admitted to disliking Ron since Ron gave him a weird look in the ninth grade.
He assigns extra homework to Ron just because he can.
He refused to let Ron specifically leave the classroom at the bell despite letting everyone else go just so he could assign him extra homework for no reason.
And demanded that the homework be on his desk at 7:00 despite the school not being unlocked until 7:30.
And gave Ron more homework for pointing out that they don't unlock the doors until 7:30.
He took a whole letter grade off of Ron's assignment in "Ron The Man" just because Ron's bar mitzvah certificate hadn't been signed.
(If Barkin wasn't grading most of Ron's assignments, do you think Ron's grades might be higher?)
He humiliated Bonnie at graduation when she didn't deserve it.
(Seriously, Bonnie's squabbles with Kim and Ron are not something Barkin should be humiliating her for. The punishment was disproportionate to the "crime".)
And the one time anyone's in actual danger, he completely panics.
That being said, he also praised Ron's personal hero essay.
And was proud of Ron's impressive culinary skills.
Let Ron take charge in "Sink or Swim".
And had no problems assigning detention to Kim when she had deserved it.
Barkin mentions in "Graduation" that Ron reminds him a bit of himself, so Barkin is probably trying to prepare Ron for the things Barkin's faced. It just isn't having the desired affect.
I think that Barkin genuinely cares about the students, even Ron, but is in no way qualified to care for them.
Truly, I don't think Barkin is a completely irredeemable person, but he clearly has issues to work out, as shown in "Fashion Victim" by his break from reality, and needs to fix those before he's placed in charge of anyone ever again. If he's ever placed in charge of anyone again.
Okay, I'm going to say it: as horrible as Bonnie was throughout the series, she didn't deserve that kind of humiliation at graduation.
First of all, Barkin should know how to contact Bonnie, or her mother, to let them know before the ceremony that Bonnie wouldn't be graduating.
Second of all, the one test that Bonnie missed should not be weighted enough to cause Bonnie to not graduate. Especially when she was apparently a Salutatorian. (Second highest GPA in the class, she tied with Kim for the title.) At worst, she loses the Salutatorian title, but not flunk completely.
Third of all, the reason nothing happens in the last week of school is because the grade books are closed, and no assignment given after that point is actually counted towards their grade. So even though Bonnie missed that pop quiz, it shouldn't have mattered anyways.
Unless Barkin was breaking the rules, which wouldn't surprise me.
So, it seems the only reason Bonnie was told at the ceremony that she wouldn't be graduating is because Barkin decided he wanted to publicly humiliate Bonnie.
And a 40+ year old adult wanting to humiliate a barely legal former student of his seems wrong.
(Note: I don't think there was anything sexual behind his motivation for humiliating Bonnie, but it still seems wrong.)
Especially when the humiliation seems disproportionate to any slight she might have done to "deserve" it.
For all Bonnie's done to embarrass and antagonize Kim and Ron, she never goes public with it.
The closest we get is in "Hidden Talent" when she shows a video of Kim failing to hit the high notes while singing to hurt Kim's confidence, but Kim and Ron are the only ones around at the time to see the video. It doesn't count as "public humiliation".
So it doesn't seem right to humiliate her in such a way when she never stooped to that level herself.
You have a lot of gripes about Kim as a character? What about Ron though? Do you think they handled his character better then the rest?
Oh, good question! Yes, and no.
No because Ron is portrayed as a loser and a freak, the butt of many jokes within the series.
And so many people, females included, find themselves relating to Ron more than Kim, so it's a little bit insulting that the character most like them was the "loser" of the show.
And yes, because Ron actually got more character development than Kim.
And, while Ron has been known to be selfish at times, it doesn't usually cause harm to others.
There was "Ill Suited" where he stole Kim's battle suit to join the football team, but he had no way of knowing he could be putting others in danger as he had no idea Dementor was after the suit or had a way to control it.
And Kim called him out for it.
Whenever Ron is behaving badly, neither Kim nor the narrative will hesitate to call him out on it.
Most often, Ron puts Kim's interests before his own. And he certainly treats Kim better than she treats him.
So, Ron is treated as a joke, and often puts Kim's needs ahead of his own. When he behaves badly, he is called out on it. And for this reason, I think he was handled both better and worse than Kim
The most frustrating thing about Kim is how she's immune to criticism. Her apologies are almost always met with the other person apologizing, even when they shouldn't have to.
"But Kim apologizes and learns her lesson! She grows and matures past those things! It's not fair to hold it against her forever!"
Does she? Let's review:
"Bueno Nacho" - Apologizes for getting mad at Ron for outshining her at the job. Not for forging an application for him or guilting him into taking the job in the first place.
Bonus: This is the first of Kim's apologies, and she consistently apologizes for the most minor transgression of the episode, ignoring all the other ones.
"Attack of the Killer Bebes" - Says she'll support Ron because he's her best friend, but doesn't actually apologize.
"The New Ron" - Apologizes for saying Ron needs a new haircut. Not for forcing him into one. Not for not caring how much he hated it. Not for stealing his hat. Not for humiliating him. Tries to throw in a lesson at the end that it's what's on the inside that counts, ignoring that fact that she was the one who forced him to change in the first place.
Bonus: Once again, Kim only apologizes for the most minor transgression.
Bonus+: There's a scene where Kim gets mad at Ron for "abandoning" Rufus, but, having watched the episode recently, I can say that's not what happened; Ron, despite not having pockets, still carried Rufus around with him, Rufus wandered off on his own. Ron probably wasn't too worried because Rufus does that frequently. And he does gently chastise Rufus for wandering off anyways. Thus, Kim's anger at Ron was not justified, and likely just because she was looking for an excuse.
"Coach Possible" - Never actually apologizes for driving her brothers' soccer team so hard they cry. Doesn't apologize, but does get fired from a job she didn't want in the first place, and mopes about it.
"October 31st" - Doesn't apologize for the lying or putting other people in danger. Doesn't acknowledge that she was putting other people in danger.
Bonus: How would Monique's family react to finding out one of Monique's party guests destroyed their garage door? Probably not happy, and banning Kim from their property until she can pay off the replacement wouldn't seem unreasonable.
Bonus+: I doubt the people asking Kim to retrieve the Centurion Project would've been happy to find out how it got stuck to her in the first place. I imagine Kim would be getting much fewer retrieval jobs after that.
"The Twin Factor" - Doesn't apologize for using mind control on her brothers. Tries to justify it and, though her parents clearly disapprove, isn't punished for it.
"The Ron Factor" - This would have been a great episode about Kim learning she takes Ron for granted and apologizing, but instead, despite doing practically nothing in this episode, she still has credit handed to her.
Bonus: The Global Justice scientists said the results of their study into "The Ron Factor" were complete and that Ron was a non-factor, but there's a movie about how Ron is vital to Kim's success, so clearly this is false. Perhaps they meant they couldn't replicate it?
"Adventures in Rufus-Sitting" - Lies to Ron about how it went watching Rufus. Doesn't apologize for not taking it seriously. Doesn't apologize for accidentally endangering Rufus. Just lies to him about how it went.
Bonus: My sister has mentioned to me that how someone treats a pet says a lot about how they view the pet's owner. So Kim's treatment of Rufus says a lot about her opinion of Ron.
"Return to Wannaweep" - Doesn't apologize for not taking Ron's concerns seriously or sabotaging Bonnie. Even Dr. Lurkin apologizes for not taking Ron's concerns seriously. And then Ron tries to give a lesson about how if Bonnie and Kim weren't so busy competing with each other, one of them could have won the Spirit Stick, as though Kim and Bonnie are equally to blame for it.
Bonus: Someone who hasn't known Ron as long as Kim has, has enough respect for Ron to apologize to him, when Kim consistently fails to do so.
"Bonding" - Apologizes to Bonnie for an unintentional comment about Bonnie's weight, quicker than she's ever apologized to Ron, and more sincerely as well.
Bonus: Despite not actually intending to insult Bonnie, Kim still has enough respect for her to apologize. More than she usually does for Ron, her "best friend".
"Fashion Victim" - Apologizes to Monique for being jealous, but not the things she did that could have cost Monique her future in the fashion industry.
Bonus: If Monique was hassling Kim to break an NDA and trying to get a tech guy to find a loophole so she could, would we think Monique should be forgiven so easily?
And consistently doesn't apologize to Ron for dismissing his fears, concerns, and feelings.
So, Kim apologizing to Ron is very rare, almost non-existent.
It's been mentioned to me that some relationships don't require explicit apologies or that love means never having to say you're sorry.
I say that's stupid.
If you care about someone, and you hurt them, you should want to apologize and make things right. Even if it seems like you don't need to say it, you should still show you're remorseful in some way.
And Kim doesn't.
While I love the idea of Ron deciding to end things with Kim after "Crush", there are definitely other times when Ron could've ended his friendship with Kim, and if you're interested in that trope in fanfiction, I think you might find this list helpful.
After being forced into a haircut in "The New Ron", Ron decides Kim's controlling behavior is too much for him. He ends his friendship with Kim and calls her out for her behavior.
After using mind control on her brothers at the end of "The Twin Factor", Kim is grounded for a long time, leaving Ron to handle missions alone. This would cause Ron to realize his own skills, and put a strain on his relationship with Kim as she can't stand to watch him succeed on missions without her. Kim also finds herself with fewer babysitting jobs once word of her using mind control on her brothers gets around.
Kim finds herself getting fewer missions after word of her negligence and reckless endangerment in "October 31st" gets out. She also finds herself banned from Monique's house since she destroyed the garage door.
Upset over GJ thinking Ron is the secret to her success in "The Ron Factor", Kim tries the solo hero thing, and fails. Unfortunately, her parting had left Ron hurt and upset, and he's not interested in coming back to Kim.
After "Adventures in Rufus-Sitting", Rufus manages to communicate to Ron what happened while he was away, and Ron gets angry that Kim not only neglected and endangered Rufus, but lied to him about it. Ron ends things with Kim as he doesn't know how he can keep being friends with someone who cares so little about Rufus.
Ron comes back from his trip in "Exchange" with new skills, new confidence, and an unwillingness to put up with Kim's controlling behavior. So he takes a break from Kim when she gets to be too much for him.
After constantly being ignored about Gil in "Return to Wannaweep", Ron decides to end things with Kim and look for someone more supportive. Kim finds herself booted from the squad after they learn about how she intentionally sabotaged her own teammate to succeed.
Team Impossible from "Team Impossible" uses legal actions to keep Kim out of the save the world business, at least until she's 18, due to the reasons mentioned in my post about them. They offer to train Kim and Ron in how to be better heroes, but Ron is the only one who accepts.
Feeling abandoned in "So The Drama", Ron decides to confront Drakken alone. He succeeds, and it starts a new chain of events where Ron realizes how little Kim cares for him and decides he deserves better.
There might be episodes in Season 4 that could have Ron end things with Kim, but I feel like at that point it would take a lot, and Kim didn't do anything truly heinous to Ron so he wouldn't.
If anyone can think of any other episode where they think it would make sense for Ron to end things with Kim, please feel free to comment!
I don’t intend to comment on every episode, just the ones I haven’t talked about yet or the ones I feel need to be given more in-depth discussion. Let’s begin:
“Tick-Tick-Tick” - First episode, not much to complain about here, but I do have one thing that irks me; the detention gang are never seen or mentioned again, with the exception of maybe Mike, as a guy who looks just like him is seen on the football team in a later episode. He is not addressed by name, however, so I’m not going to assume it’s Mike. The point of the episode was that Kim learns the detention gang are not all that bad, but then they’re never seen or mentioned again. They’re not even in the background. It kind of defeats the purpose of the lesson.
I also feel like this episode would have been a good chance to play into Kim’s “driven to excel” traits and have her hate the idea of detention because she’s afraid of how it will affect her future, and she learns one detention won’t ruin her future. You know, a reason for thinking detention is for losers, instead of just her being a cheerleader.
“Bueno Nacho” - I did mention in a previous post that I hate that Kim forged an application for Ron before ever talking to him about it. Honestly, they could’ve just had Kim entice Ron to take the job by mentioning some kind of benefits i.e. employee discount, one free meal while on shift. There was no reason for Kim to unilaterally make the decision, and she seems majorly controlling for doing so. Your protagonist’s mistakes should come from a lack of knowledge, not a lack of consideration. You can teach people to communicate, you can’t teach them to care.
“Attack of the Killer Bebes” - I wish the creators had delved more into Kim’s feelings. She thinks Ron being a cheerleader would be mortifying, and she hates the idea of him as the mascot. But we never learn why. There’s a line at the beginning that would indicate Kim just wanted something for herself, but the creators don’t expand on that. Instead, we get Kim just insulting Ron for the rest of the episode. It would have been more interesting if it was about Kim struggling to keep something for herself without Ron, and learning that even with Ron as the mascot, cheerleading will still always be her thing. Your protagonist should have deep thoughts and feelings that get explored, not just hinted at.
“The New Ron” - One of my most hated episodes for the way Kim treated Ron, but my rewrite would probably fix it. Ron agrees to a new haircut to appease Kim, and tries to like it but he’s miserable and he stays miserable. Kim learns she can be too pushy sometimes and needs to lay off, and Ron learns his best friend cares more about his feelings than his appearance, so it’s okay to say no to her. Your hero shouldn’t be causing harm to others just because she wants to; that’s not a hero, that’s a villain.
“Number One” - A few options for rewrites; Kim actually tries to prove she’s the better captain instead of just expecting Bonnie to fail on her own, or Bonnie stays captain and we get to explore how Kim handles not being in charge. Your character isn’t skilled and talented if she has everything handed to her instead of working for it.
Also, it would be nice if Will was actually competent, instead of taking credit for the mission. Give Kim an actual rival. Seriously, a highly-trained government agent isn’t on par with an amateur? It’s ridiculous. Your female protagonist isn’t good if you have to dumb down the world to make her shine.
“Sink or Swim” - Minor change; with how big Barkin is, and his military experience, he should’ve made more noise while being abducted. We could’ve had a shadow drag him off while he tells Kim to warn the others. That would’ve played into the horror movie parody quite nicely.
“Crush” - I feel like instead of Kim ignoring a call from Wade that was definitely important because Wade doesn’t make social calls, she should’ve just not gotten a call. I mean, how would Wade even know Ron was trapped in the closet anyways? Ron doesn’t have a Kimmunicator. It wouldn’t change much to be honest, and it also wouldn’t have Kim ignoring an urgent attempt at communication.
“October 31st” - Kim should take more precautions with the bracelet. Maybe it gets stuck to her wrist because the tweebs grab it and it gets stuck to her wrist in the ensuing fight. There’s also the issue of lying, but we could just have her nervous about spending time with Josh and having that be enough to set off the armor. That way, it’s basically the same plot, but without Kim being thoughtless, reckless, and deliberately misleading everyone she cares about.
“The Twin Factor” - Honestly, I would take out the whole “gag” about Kim using mind control on her brothers. The whole point of the episode is that mind control is wrong and bad, but the point gets muted when our hero is doing it to children. I’m not sure what gag I would replace it with, but nothing that jokes about mind control. I like that Kim’s parents were upset, but they should’ve been more upset. Outraged, even. And Kim should’ve faced actual consequences.
“Job Unfair” - I’m not sure this episode had a lesson. If it was meant to be “all jobs are important” then the lesson is pointless by having the “janitor” revealed to actually be a Canadian spy. Instead, we could have Kim decide to focus on her work-study anyways, and learn how to disable the weather machine by sheer coincidence, because the janitor is an actual janitor and not secretly a spy. As for Ron’s mentor, it could be revealed that the spy had been trying to get to Kim, but she was already taken by the janitor so he went to Ron instead.
“Grudge Match” - This episode had a scene where Ron mentions people might think he and Kim were on a date. Instead of using this as a moment to hint at Kim and Ron ending up together, Kim mocks and insults Ron for that statement. We could have Kim and Ron nervously discussing whether people think of them as a couple, before Kim (or Wade) brings them back to focus, but Kim mocking and insulting Ron for insinuating people might think they date is not a good way to hint at the endgame ship.
Also, I feel like instead of Kim “fudging” by telling Ron he might stand a chance with Zita, we should have her actually believe it could happen. This is a guy she supposedly develops romantic feelings for later, but instead of hinting at that, she apparently thinks he’s so much of a loser that even a girl none of them know anything about could do better.
“The Ron Factor” - I understand they had to change the ending of the episode because it was too sexist, but this episode chronologically takes place after “A Sitch in Time”, where we learn Ron is essential to Kim’s success (though no one remembers that timeline so I’ll cut them some slack there) and Ron defeated the villain this time. Not Kim, Ron. If they didn’t want it to seem like Ron was the secret to Kim’s success, they shouldn’t have made that a plot point of the movie, nor should they have Ron defeating the villain. Kim did almost nothing in this episode aside from telling Ron he was getting a big head (which he was) and complaining about GJ thinking Ron was the secret to her success (again, he was).
“Adventures in Rufus-Sitting” - I’ve talked about this episode before, so my rewrite is simple; have Kim take actual precautions with the microchip. We could still have Rufus accidentally eat it; maybe while looking for a snack he finds it and eats it. But Kim took no precautions with the top-secret microchip she was meant to guard, and that is seriously disappointing. If your female protagonist won’t take basic precautions with things she’s supposed to guard, she’s not a good guardian.
“Exchange” - When Kim decides she likes Hirotaka, she has Wade track his movements to arrange an “accidental” run-in with him to ask him out. She’s known him for less than a week and is already stalking him. It’s creepy and obsessive and this needs to not happen. Honestly, that whole scene could go like this; Kim returns from a mission, notices Hirotaka, panics, plays cool, decides to ask him out, continues as canon. If your female character is stalking her crush, it’s not funny, it’s creepy.
Interesting to note: Hirotaka looks a lot like Will Du’s original concept Ken Du.
“Queen Bebe” - Honestly, I do have complaints about this episode, and I’ve mentioned it in a previous post, but I’m not actually sure how I’d go about rewriting it. Kim’s inability to fulfill her obligations (that she volunteered for) is not only disappointing but also letting down her school. I can kind of understand her refusal to ask for help, especially from Bonnie, but at the very least, clubs and committees should be hesitant to let her join in the future because of this.
“Hidden Talent” - Not cool of Ron to sign Kim up for the talent show without talking to her about it first, but it definitely wasn’t cool of Kim to threaten Ron with physical violence over it. He might not have seemed afraid, but that doesn’t make it okay.
Honestly, it would be very in character for Kim to sign herself up because of anger and pride, so there was no need for Ron to do it.
“Return to Wannaweep” - Kim sabotages Bonnie, her own teammate, just because she wants a plastic stick painted gold. A stick she admits to only wanting so Bonnie can’t have it. Sure, Kim’s competitive. But this kind of competitiveness, sabotaging her own teammate to make herself stand out more, would get her kicked off the squad. Obviously, if they want Kim and Bonnie sabotaging each other, they should have Bonnie start it. Your heroine doesn’t get to be called a role model when she’s starting conflicts for her own personal interests.
Also, despite Gil having tried something evil before, Kim refuses to take any of Ron’s concerns about him seriously because she’s too preoccupied with her rivalry with Bonnie. A heroine ignoring potential danger because she doesn’t care is not a good heroine.
“Blush” - I can understand Kim wanting to go on a date with Josh, but he would’ve understood Kim needing to stay home for her own safety. She was at risk of literally disappearing.
“Oh Boyz” - Sure, everyone stopped liking the Oh Boyz, but the timing implies Kim stopped liking them specifically because Ron started liking them. I just feel like there’s too much of that in this show; Ron’s interests being “uncool” or “embarrassing”.
“Rewriting History” - This episode introduced interesting new layers to the characters and their relationships, except it didn’t because it was all a dream. I hate that. Honestly, I feel like the episode should have just ended with Kim saving Drakken and Shego and clearing her great-aunt’s name. No “it was all a dream” shenanigans.
“Showdown at the Crooked D” - Kim tricked Ron into going. He told her he wanted to laze about for the summer, she invited him to a place called The Lazy C, and then deliberately didn’t tell him until after they arrived and he had no way to back out that it was a working ranch. A lie by omission is still a lie. Your female hero shouldn’t be doing this to her friends.
"Emotion Sickness” - Another episode that could’ve hinted at Kim and Ron getting together, but instead Ron seemed uncomfortable with the whole idea. Nervous. Terrified. It didn’t seem like he wanted to be in a relationship with her. Having one character be uncomfortable with the idea of dating another is not a good way to hint at a ship.
"Bonding” - Mostly I hate that both Bonnie and Barkin were given character development, and then it’s gone for the rest of the series.
“Bad Boy” - Another episode to hint at a ship, and it didn’t do a good job. Having both characters be uncomfortable with the idea of dating each other doesn’t imply a ship either.
“Team Impossible” - As I mentioned, most of my frustration with this episode comes from the reason they gave for wanting Kim out of the business; profit. There are so many valid reasons, and Team Impossible could’ve been mentors. If you need to make the professionals incompetent for your character to stand out, your character isn’t good enough.
“And the Mole Rat Will Be CGI” - Honestly, my big issue here is that Kim, once again, is ignoring Ron’s feelings on something that will affect him.
“So The Drama” - I made a whole post about this, so I’ll be brief. Getting Kim and Ron together by introducing a “perfect” guy for Kim and then removing him as an option completely is lazy writing. I understand it was supposed to be the end of the series, but while we see a lot of Ron pining over Kim, we don’t see any of Kim possibly having feelings for Ron. The implication is that, if Eric were still an option, Kim and Ron wouldn’t be together. That’s not true love, that’s Ron being Kim’s rebound guy.
“The Big Job” - Kim complains about Ron using coupons to fund their dates, to high end expensive restaurants, but she never offers to pay. She is asking for more from Ron than he is able to give. And she, once again, has things literally handed to her. In this case, Monique literally gives her a job just so she could inspire Ron to get one.
“Fashion Victim” - I find it hard to believe Kim didn’t know she was risking Monique’s and Wade’s futures by trying to get them help her break the NDA Monique signed. She has worked on top-secret projects before; she’s definitely signed a few of those. Your heroine shouldn’t be risking others for her own gain.
“Grande Size Me” - The movie this episode was based off of has been proven to have been faked. This whole episode would need to be rewritten.
TW: This episode contains scenes that would be triggering for people with body image issues, eating disorders, or fears of Kaiju.
I did have more thoughts, but they felt too nitpicky. I tried to stick to the ones I had major problems with, and bolded the advice I would give on how to avoid some of those problems.
The villains are bad in obvious ways, but the civilian adults have issues too, theirs are just more subtle.
James Possible:
Almost no concern for the dangerous things his boys build because he was just like that at their age.
Doesn’t usually know about Kim’s missions until after she gets back, and is okay with it as long as she’s not out with some boy.
Threatens to launch Ron into a black hole if he breaks Kim’s heart in “Emotion Sickness”.
Ann Possible:
Like James, doesn’t know about Kim’s missions until she gets back, and is okay with that.
Expressed concern over Kim forcing Ron into a haircut in “The New Ron”, but did nothing else, not even when Kim made it clear Ron didn’t get a say in the matter.
I understand these two have careers that keep them occupied, but it doesn’t really excuse neglecting their children. I understand normal teenagers don’t save the world, but even if they did, parents would still want to know where they’re going.
Mr. Stoppable:
Adopts a girl and turns Ron’s bedroom into a nursery, moving his things into the attic, in the time Ron was at school, and doesn’t tell him ahead of time.
Mrs. Stoppable:
Adopts a girl and turns Ron’s bedroom into a nursery, moving his things into the attic, in the time Ron was at school, and doesn’t tell him ahead of time.
Doesn’t tell him he’s going to Camp Wannaweep until the bus gets there.
Stops taking his calls while Ron is at Camp Wannaweep.
We don’t really see enough of them to know if they’re okay with Ron going on missions, but they certainly have a bad habit of making drastic life changes for Ron without telling him.
Mr. Barkin:
Power-tripping; admits in “Bonding” that he’s hated Ron since the ninth grade because Ron gave him a “funny look” and gives Ron extra homework just because he can. (Here’s an interesting question; If Barkin wasn’t the one grading most of Ron’s assignments, do you think Ron’s grades would be higher? It makes sense that Barkin would grade Ron more harshly just because he could.)
Does not inform high school students of changes made to field trip plans until the last minute. Examples: “Return to Wannaweep” and “Cap’n Drakken”. Though I might believe he also didn’t know until the last minute, he still shouldn’t be taking the students to places they hadn’t previously agreed to go to.
Approaches running a high school likes it’s a boot camp, and really shouldn’t be in charge of teenagers.
Not much else needed to say about Barkin; he approaches everything, including running a high school, like it’s boot camp, so the fact that he’s still there is amazing. Middleton High needs more teachers.
I’m not saying they’re all bad people, but these issues are pretty serious and should’ve been addressed in the show. The only time any of them is addressed is within the context of how it affects Ron, and so those concerns aren’t taken seriously.