No Hiding The Good Stuff In The Tags ;

probably the only post I’ll ever make about that one anime called Bungo Stray Dogs

Originally this post was supposed to be a reply via reblog to this post, but it got a bit too sidetracked and I felt bad for hijacking OP’s post like this. 

Initially I was just going to say this through the comment section of the original post, but then I realized that I have way too many thoughts to fit into the small word limit of a tumblr comment.

Anyway, that’s why I’m posting a screenshot of the original post rather than just reblogging it. I don’t want to derail OP’s original points or hijack the post and go off topic.

@chaosgranted​ you’re right and you should say it. I’m just gonna elaborate on this topic a bit. Gonna scream into the Tumblr void with hopes that the void won’t scream back.

<long ((and mostly negative)) rant about Dazai, so. Read at your own discretion>

I know I already commented on OP’s post a hundred times, but this got me thinking about the subject and now I can’t stop. So lemme burden you all with my never ending stream of thoughts on this matter.

Before I get into this rant, I wanna clarify something. I do, in fact, like Dazai as a character. I think he’s very interesting. I enjoy when he shows up on screen. This isn’t something I’d say for most other characters, who I’m more neutral about.  

That being said. Pretty much everything about how the fandom portrays him and views him annoys me so, so much.

As OP states here, what he does (leaves Chuuya unconscious and vulnerable in the field after promising to bring him back) isn’t just harmful or mean, it’s borderline cruel. And if it was done by any character who the audience wasn’t obsessed with, that character would be burned at the stake.

Think about Shirase (who I love, but that’s its own thing). Some people like him, a bunch of people hate him, a bunch of people have no opinion on him because he’s not a major character in the anime. Regardless of his Light Novel counterpart, Anime Shirase is justified enough in his own right. Let’s be real, the Sheep (including Shirase) were acting in self defense when they betrayed and stabbed Chuuya. They genuinely believed that he was an immediate threat to their safety. They genuinely believed that if they didn’t kill him, he’d kill them, or sell their information to the mafia, who’d shortly thereafter kill them.

Unlike Dazai leaving Chuuya behind when he was at his most vulnerable state, the Sheep stabbing and betraying Chuuya is not only justifiable, but understandable— and can anyone truly say that they’d do any different if they were in their shoes? I know I can only speak for myself, but if I truly and genuinely believed that someone was about to kill me or kill my closest friends, I would do what it takes to protect both my friends and myself.

The Sheep are somewhat vilified by the fandom (in the rare moments when the fandom remembers they exist). If Dazai had done the same— if Dazai had tried to kill an innocent person because he truly and genuinely believed that that person was about to kill the ADA, not only would he be forgiven instantly (which he should be, as I previously mentioned that’s a perfectly reasonable thing to do), but there wouldn’t be even an ounce of discourse over whether or not he’s justified.

Now, I understand the concept of liking “problematic” characters. (Tbh no character is “problematic”, whether or not the character is a good person is irrelevant, if the character does “problematic” things then that’s literally just how they were written and also intentional and also says something about them as a character. It should be called “good writing”, not “a problematic character”.) I understand the concept of liking the antagonist, heck my whole blog used to be me justifying Edmund from King Lear. Of course I never said he was a good person (because OH MAN HE WASN’T), but I found him very intriguing and so I would rationalize his actions and try to see things from his POV.

The difference between liking or justifying an antagonist and what the bsd fandom does with Dazai is that Dazai isn’t an antagonist.

The closest Dazai comes to filling an antagonistic role is in flashback arcs, which is the only time when his actions aren’t chalked up to “haha Bandage man is doing his thing again!”. When Dazai manipulates the Sheep into betraying and stabbing Chuuya, it acknowledges that Dazai is filling a bit of an antagonistic role there. That scene isn’t played off a  a joke— there’s no comedic undertone in how it’s portrayed. As opposed to when he leaves Chuuya in the field and it goes “haha look at Bandage man always being so silly and goofy!”

The same goes for Dazai’s treatment of Akutagawa in The Dark Era arc. When he shoots at him, attempting to kill him with no knowledge that his ability can theoretically stop the bullets, it’s not played off as a joke. However, in the dungeon scene, Dazai says that his new subordinate is “far superior” to him, and the show plays it off as “haha Bandage man made Emo kid angry!”, even though what Dazai meant by “far superior” is that Atsushi got lucky enough to be taught by Present Day Dazai, and so he’s more mentally stable and more sure of himself than Akutagawa, who’s still very clearly getting over the trauma of being literally brainwashed mentored by Mafia Dazai. Ability wise, Atsushi and Akutagawa seem to have equally strong abilities. The only thing that Atsushi has that Akutagawa doesn’t is a semi-healthy mindset. And you know who’s responsible for both of their mindsets….? This statement ( “..far superior..”) is the equivalent of punching someone in the face and then calling them ugly for having a black eye.

But the show keeps playing off Dazai’s outright cruelty to the people around him as a literal joke. And “he’s on the good side now!!”, so, to quote a song we all wish we could forget, How bad can he possibly be?

I think the first real sign of Dazai’s, for lack of better terms, tendencies..,, is in the second episode. That was the point where I was like “Oh. So he’s an asshole.” In that episode, Atsushi states that although he’s grateful for Dazai’s help, he’s not interested in joining the ADA. Dazai tries to pressure him into joining but he politely refuses. Dazai then makes it seem like he’s about to get him an interview for a different job, when suddenly he drags him into a supposed bombing and seemingly forces him to put his life on the line for an organization that he wants nothing to do with.

Atsushi is a kid who can hardly stand up for himself. I’m surprised he even turned Dazai down in the first place, but that just goes to show how badly he wanted nothing to do with the Agency. After discovering that it was all a test set up from the start— a test which he passed, now making him qualified to join the ADA— he still remains unwilling to join. Now what does Dazai, our resident master manipulator, do? He makes sure to give Atsushi a friendly reminder that sure, he doesn’t have to join, but if he doesn’t he’ll surely either die of starvation on the streets or be captured by the cops for his horrible tiger crimes against humanity. At that point of the episode I was like “ah. A manipulative asshole. Lovely. I’d like to see him get punched in the face.” (And thanks to Kunikida he does get punched. Not often enough for my tastes, but whatever.)

If you’ve never watched BSD and are only learning about it from this post, you’re probably thinking “but Edette, this guy is clearly a horrible person. And I understand that people simp for him, but just how delusional do people have to be to pretend none of this ever happened?”

Well there’s a very simple answer to that, my friend.

The whole show plays off his.. ah, let’s call them “silly little shenanigans”.. as just that. Silly. Little. Shenanigans. It shows him being manipulative and using every innocent person he comes alone to advance his own goals in one way or another. But that’s all perfectly fine! Because the show says it’s actually really funny, so it must be, right?

As OP says. Chuuya trusted him. Chuuya listened to him when he told him to activate his ability which nearly kills him. Chuuya was willing to throw his life away, endure pain beyond anything anyone could imagine, all on the hope and trust that this person he shares so much history with will be there for him and protect him when he’s left in his most vulnerable state.

But Dazai uses corruption as a tool. He uses Chuuya as a pawn to win the battle. And if you want to argue that Chuuya’s not a pawn but a knight or queen or some other chess piece then fine. Nice chess analogy. You do realize that’s irrelevant, right? Either way, as he says himself in 15, he’s not a king. He’s not the piece that will be protected at all costs. And no matter what piece he is, he’s just a game piece, just like everyone else Dazai comes across, and Dazai is the player.

And after the battle is over? Well, his pawn is of no use to him anymore. So good job Chuuya, you did it, you won. Soukoku won. But only one half of Soukoku gets to enjoy the victory.

For the record, I do believe that Dazai cares about Chuuya beyond simply being intrigued by him. I do believe that he wouldn’t have folded his coat and left it where he could find it if the person he was fighting alongside was just anyone. But that’s not even close to the bare minimum of what Dazai should have done. This is just a testimony to what sort of person Dazai is. Even with someone who he arguably cares about, he still treats him this horribly.  

And

It’s

Played

Off

As

A

Joke.

Are you ok with being tagged in posts? I'm working on a fan ID of sorts and wanted to credit your contribution to lu-is-not-ok's sin analysis for the reasoning behind the resistances. If not, should I just mention the handle without tagging (like with a /)?

sure, go right ahead

would Jouno scarejumping everyone in a Light Snow car bolster the point? that noone remembers gun children would kind of mean the fluff action is performed properly - enjoyable in the moment only to be forgotten as a mostly irrelevant point.

to salvage the setup: real selective killing would be in the past, and enough fuckups/pressure would have him be progressively more extremist about it. People do make reads on how BSD is absurdist at it's core - which would mean no plans perfectly coming together*. Plus, while he appears to be opportunistic about how genocide is carried out (DA, DoA), the primary plan seems to be the Book - and anyone with the book can retcon everything they did in the past. That said - and wouldn't it be funny if neither of us read Dazai's Entrance Exam - part of it is probably to signal Dostoy is way WAY further gone than that particular obstacle.

the post seems like noticing a novel Franchise Original Sin: sometimes it's character driven drama and sometimes it's just cool shit with abilities, and the bits of Meursault you dislike are an extension of the latter? Death Note jungle gym & dumb nonsense chatter to lower tension for Action Flick Shit elsewhere, if i remember properly?

*would all of this be a problem if Dazai fucked up badly in the main manga? earlier, hopefully?

At what point does a character become so evil that they're just irredeemable? Because I can ignore the Meursault arc by setting my story before it, remove Fyodor from some of the more catastrophic decisions made by the DOA and Guild, which at least bring him back down to some sort of relatability but... how can you redeem a man who manipulated a little girl into blowing herself up? Who put guns in the hands of children? It's so... evil. I can write Fyodor as a previously mostly good person, who took a horribly dark spiral into a delusional genocide mission. It's hard, but I can, so long as he doesn't succeed very far. Even killing Karma, while still an evil action, is questionable, debatable, to the reader. Because you can understand why Fyodor did it: he saw ending Karma's life as the only way to save him from a lifetime of torment and sin. And the reader can question how much they agree with that decision. And that's fine; I like that. But the little girl? It's the same principle, in theory: Fyodor could justify it to himself by saying that he wanted to save her from the sin surrounding her, to send her to God before she had the chance to sin. But that's where it breaks down. Because it becomes such a flimsy excuse, trying to mask such a massive evil.

Maybe I'd take out the kids with guns. That's too much, unless I'm missing something. Have the long walk through the tunnels with Atsushi and Kunikida be tense instead, them peering around every corner, ready for a harrowing fight. Kunikida's gun held tight, Atsushi tensed and ready to tiger out. Both peering through the darkness, only to reach a clearing in which stood a tiny little girl, hands clutched in front of her, scared, with some strange kind of necklace. And then in the next horrifying moment they realise: it's not a necklace, but grenades. Then the scene plays out from there. Not only would this be more impactful as a scene (in my opinion), it'd also characterise Fyodor in a different, much more interesting and nuanced way (in my opinion).

Because in that situation, it's only the little girl he's justifying to himself. And it's a bad justification, clearly paper-thin, but he believes it. And that makes the underlying horror and twist of Fyodor's character all the better--now that you've trimmed the fluff, that one point speaks so much more. You've emphasised that Fyodor's the type of person who's willing to manipulate a little girl into blowing herself up, but you've also shown that he put deliberate thought and care into that decision. It was to break Kunikida, but it was also to save her, to end her life before she fell into sin. And you would remember, because of how impactful the scene would be (whereas I'd bet a lot of people don't even remember Fyodor had gun children).

I think that's a problem the entirety of BSD (or maybe just manga in general) has. There's too much fluff action. It waters down the truly impactful scenes and breaks down the interest in characters like Fyodor. Because when he's killing very selectively, not only can you show how he rationalises those deaths for the sake of his plans and have that not be broken by continuity, but you get so much more out of those deaths. And if nothing else changed, and Fyodor was the only antagonist who didn't kill wantonly, imagine how different that would make him feel. His plans by their very nature would be new, interesting, contrasting. An antagonist who uses precise and measured deaths, just a pinpoint here, to achieve a much bigger effect on the characters than even the destruction of Yokohama by the Guild, would be something both new and far more terrifying.

And it would show how well Fyodor understood the ADA, that with just one death he could shake them so much--and how little they knew him in return would be very worrying. Imagine how much better his conversations with Dazai--the discussion of saving people would have so much meaning if Fyodor wasn't a hypocrite who killed people for no reason. If Dazai says that people are worth saving, and Fyodor agrees, even though they've entirely different meanings behind those words, and the meaning is actually there- imagine the subtext, the intrigue, the actual good writing that could come of that. God, I really wish it was so.

@lu-is-not-ok

i read lu-is-not-okay's sin analysis guide and it made me think about outis some more (mainly base outis)

TL;DR for the guide: Each sin's meaning is likely different from the mainstream interpretation of them (e.g. Lust does not necessarily mean being horny), and an identity's skills represent the layers of their psyche (With s1 being the surface layer and s3 being the deepest layer of the mind)

I should note that this draws from my previous theory of Outis's story so it might be needed to check that out to clear any confusion. Also, since Outis's story isn't going to be released for a very long time, this is really just conjecture.

Anyway...

Outis has a sloth s1 (Pulled Blade), a pride s2 (Backslash), and a gloom s3 (Piercing Thrust), right?

Going by the guide, Sloth S1 represents Outis's resignation to her circumstances. She's given up on hopes of ever returning home after the Smoke War, believing it to be totally impossible.

Pride S2 likely alludes to a fatal mistake Outis made out of hubris during the Smoke War, one that could possibly even be the reason why she cannot return home. Since we don't have her story yet, this is more based off of Outis's source material.

In The Iliad, the protagonist Odysseus had been captured by a giant called Polyphemus. When he demanded his name, Odysseus told him his name was "Ουτις" (Outis), which means 'nothing' in Greek. Odysseus later blinded the giant, who screamed "Outis (nobody) is killing me!" (and thus leading the other giants to ignore his pleas) and allowed them to escape.

However, before leaving, Odysseus revealed his true name to Polyphemus in an act of hubris, taunting him. As a result, Polyphemus was able to pray to his father Poseidon to curse Odysseus to “[never] reach his native land, to [never] come once more to his own house and see his friends again” and to “let him come late, in evil plight, with all his comrades dead, in someone else's ship, and find troubles in his household."

Sounds pretty familiar to Outis's predicament, right?

Afterwards, gaining a grudge against Odysseus, Poseidon began sabotaging Odysseus's journey. All of which would have been prevented had Odysseus's arrogance not gotten the best of him.

Returning to Limbus Company Outis, I feel like Pride S2 would represent her invoking catastrophe the same way as Odysseus -- in an act of arrogance, she will make a huge mistake with terrible consequences (perhaps being the reason why she cannot return home?). Could be her revealing her identity to the enemy to brag -> said enemy pulls a few strings and finds a way to prevent her from returning home, or it could be something less 1-to-1 with The Iliad. Either way, the skill would allude to her ignoring the consequences of her actions in that one moment.

Alternatively, it could refer to her participating in the Smoke War, not quite aware of the potential consequences that could result from leaving her home.

Finally, Gloom S3. This one is a bit hard to pin down with actual evidence because, again, we know very little about Outis's actual past. Additionally, nothing really suggests that Outis is "overwhelmed" with negative emotions at the time of this post. In fact, she's known for being the most rational and collected sinner, despite her obsequious attitude towards Dante. (There's probably something from The Iliad that I could connect to here, but I honestly don't know that much about the epic.)

That being said, I imagine it'd have something to do with regret. Whatever conceited mistake Outis made came back to bite her in the ass, and now she can never return home to those that wait for her. Indeed, she would definitely dwell on her unfortunate circumstances even if she is resigned to them. "If only I hadn't let my hubris get the better of me."

As for appearing rational and seeming the exact opposite of "overwhelmed with negative emotions"...

I have nothing to support this, but it's possible that Outis's implied duplicity through her sycophantic behavior towards Dante is a front. She's well aware that all of the other Sinners and Vergil think she's going to backstab them at any moment -- that's the point of it. It's a smokescreen to cover up how she actually feels, which is intense lament due to being unable to see her loved ones ever again.

That doesn't necessarily mean said treachery is "fake", since she could still backstab them (although you could argue that if she really did want to betray them, she wouldn't make it so obvious). It's just that she intentionally uses said sycophancy and hints of disloyalty, however genuine they may be, to mask her actual issues and her past.

yess so much space for Deep Ideas. how about… Akutagawa is fine, because he was ordered to prep himself for combat - but Tachihara being kept away from it, didn't have that order and thus just idled, so when (assuming Fuku didn't want the plan capstone to be as in anime; too much wiggling in the manga) Dracula stops working Tachihara is stuck like that. This would have Implications about Jouno's situation - let's say Asagiri's impenetrable plot armor kicks in, Tecchou + Kenji just contrivance his location out before Aya jumps off the tower. Here, we got options:

Tecchou moves him to Yosano at Hunting Dog speeds

due to Fukuchi quite liking Hunting Dogs, he's already in a location that's just good enough to stabilize him, so back to your boi Tachihara

Given the context, what about status of HG as an unit? wouldn't Fukuchi throw a lot of suspicion on the group? Obv they're not getting decommissioned, but either (or both, lel) on thin ice, or just… most of their bodymods removed (in preparation of), breaking the unit apart. The former could be used to create tension with Mori's requests, the latter via 'well now you're full-time mafia! It's a good thing you like it here, yes?'

Tachihara Meta below the cut-- heh, cut. Get it?

So I think his eyes were healed up when he was turned and he'll be fine.

But oh my god, the angst of the blinding not going away is so interesting to me. As much as i think a blindness arc would be so interesting, would there be any reason for magic vampiric healing to not fix his eyes? Idk, maybe a loophole or something.

I think Fukuchi blinds him so callously, not even turning around, because he knows that it will be healed. I think Fukuchi actually cared for the hunting dogs. They were under his command and he was responsible for them. Even if Tachi did turn on him, it was because Fukuchi was being evil on purpose to push humanity to his goal.

Anyway, back to Tachihara. I want to find a way to facilitate this cuz I want him to talk to Jouno and learn how to cope with this loss. Maybe find a way to use his metal ability to sense metal in the environment and "see" through his ability.

And imagine if he decides to go to Yosano for help, cuz he can't stand never being able to see the world again. Never being able to see the people be cares about. And she helps of course. And they talk and he learns more about how his brother died and how Yosano tried to stop that madness but was forced into a corner by none other than Mori. I think Tachihara would feel differently about staying in the mafia if he knew that Mori was the true culprit.

Maybe his injury was healed and his body is healthy but his mind is shutting down his vision out of mental trauma. He has to go to therapy to process his fucked up life and regain his eyesight. What a journey.

Ah fuck I'm writing this, ill call it an AU if I need to, if canon doesn't follow this thread.

Once in awhile, you can get one over on The Man. Finally, after all these years of toiling under his rule, doing his dirty work, begging for his praise, he has well and truly fucked up. And, it turns out, your entire life has been building up to the moment that you can milk him for all he's worth.

Have you ever seen a Dodge Caliber? They're getting sort of uncommon now, but when they were new, they were pretty hateful cars. Cheap, buzzy, surprisingly uneconomical, steering that felt like telling a funeral home operator how to sign a birthday card over the phone by long distance. And they fell apart all the time. Most cars get repaired, but these things got gleefully shovelled into the junkyard at the first chance the owners got.

Not all of them, though. This is a story about one very special Dodge Caliber. You see, my aunt needed a car. And my aunt is very nervous about owning a car. The skills of shitbox repair never made it into her genes, you see, possibly because she is not related to me by blood. So, in order to get that car, she went to the Dodge dealership, and she asked them: can you do a lifetime warranty, unlimited mileage, no questions asked, cover everything? And they said: for you, ma'am, we absolutely can charge you an obscene, eye-watering amount of money.

Once I found out about this, I was mad. And then I figured it out. You see, what my aunt did have was being insanely cheap. That's why she was a part of my degenerate family. She still is, even though my Uncle Larry exploded that one night at Arecibo. Unlimited mileage. There has never been a sweeter phrase uttered in the English language.

Now, whenever anyone we know needs to go for a long trip, we tell them: take the Caliber. Rack those miles up. Punish those stupid motherfuckers for writing such a terrible, open-ended contract. My aunt runs a taxi service consisting entirely of this vehicle, a fleet of drivers constantly rotating in and out, the thing rolling virtually 24/7. I love driving this car, because every single mile that ticks up on the odometer is more salty tears from the low-wattage pig who thought he was a big-time wheeler and dealer down at Old Time Country Dodge.

To their credit, they figured out the enormous error that they had made fairly quickly. When Aunt Hilda rolled in the thing, smoking and wheezing, for its sixth transmission replacement at eight-hundred-and-fifty-thousand kilometers, they offered to buy it from her and give her a brand new luxury SUV, just for being such a great customer. She laughed, and told them to get started overhauling the Caliber, and don't forget to take a look at the squeaking sound it started making in the back.

When things got real bad during the recession, they tried to go bankrupt, thinking that might get them out from having to maintain this economy car until the sun burns out. Ha! Death won't save you, my friend. My attorney Max picked that one up pro bono, despite hating warranty law, just for the pleasure of watching their attorney read the purchase contract. Her eyes got so big that they stuck that way. The paramedics had to use the jaws of life on her eyelids so she could blink again.

If you see me in the Caliber, make sure to honk. I probably won't stop to say hi, because we gotta keep this odometer rollin'. Rest assured, however, that I will honk back, maybe ten or fifteen times. Really get my money's worth out of that horn.

TL;DR plans are useless but planning is indespensable (Eisenhower)

i think you're bedazzled by the smoke and mirrors characters are pulling on each other.

Dostoy and deathtouch: now we know dostoy gets part of his host's ability. If you were in his shoes, why wouldn't you fuck around with it for maximum confusion? He is an international terrorist, and so benefits for multiple conflicting reports about what he can do. As for deathtouch thing: he was already using the thing in his introduction, so why not have more 'ammo' on hand? + i suspect it's NOT how Dazai explains it (having ridicious control over Hawthorne's ablity Because Reasons), but because his then-host had roughly that ability. Besides, way back when speculation about dostoy's plot armor churned, there were people going "bailed out by yet-unknown party", so that's always on the table. He planned to die in Meursault, but Nikolai was a suprise - without him, Yokohama Airport Battlefield crew would eventually reach Bram (as set up by Fukuchi as planned by Dostoy), who is already pretty depressed and so would be willing to divulge pulling out Soluz Levni would kill him. How does he know about this? Most likely Fukuchi (of HD) told him way back he was impaled upon it, i.e. keikaku goes brrr. As additional incentive, Bram does mention not wanting to create vampires - so if that's not persuasive feel free to season with psychological torture to taste.

Dostoy pulled Mushitarou out of Seventh Agency's cell. Because Ango set it up, HG had no knowledge of it. As for "why not just shoot [Dazai]"? The only answer that makes sense IMO is "because he's a terrible simp". How did he know Mushi's the one responsible? this is the part where being Old As Fuck + Rats (spies) in every corner + character established as hackerman more or less covers it. Once more, this isn't something that requires some specific goal in mind - you'd kind of want to keep a database of evidence-destroying ability users (both the govt and dostoy), and Seventh Agency has to be keeping it's records of which user is suppressing what, if only for blackmail purposes.

>how can Fyodor expect to be killed by a vampire to become Bram??? How does this make sense if he did not know that Gogol would plan this at all?

he didn't. As Dazai put it: "this is why he was so desperate - if he died by poison it wouldn't work". So! From Dostoy's perspective Meursault was already infested by vampires. Fukuchi was controlling them the entire time. This part of the plan was most likely presented to Fukuchi as "and then you take over Meursault so i can have tea and give orders to the outside so that everything will go smoothly" - to prompt him to go hell naw, guaranteeing Fukuchi will take over Meursault with vampires, to keep an eye on him/make sure to vamp any underlings that might already be planted there. But with Nikolai, this becomes: - step 1: win (naturally) - step 2: grab the antidote (and it is the antidote because if Nikolai wanted him dead he 1) done so already 2) wouldn't have done so by proxy to prove Dostoy is just victim 617) and leave (cold and wet and whiny lel) - step 3: inject the antidote and wait for Bram to assume direct control -> keikaku flows back to the main plot (also: this always synces him to events in Yokohama. No matter what, he will be yeeted to the part where anyone from the agency is talking to Bram, so Soluz Levni should be nearby*). If that doesn't happen during the ride, then simply find another vamp. He had plenty of time to research Dracula. - step 4: ??? - step 5: JACKPOT

alright, enough squeeing.

re: baying for blood: i wanted to spring this vid on BSD fandom, congratulations!

YouTube

Harlan Ellison interview | Science Fiction Writer | Good Afternoon | 1976

Two extracts from a fascinating interview with celebrated and controversial author Harlan Ellison. In these extracts noted journalist Mavis

but also, frame flip: it's well established by this point that the manga's gimmick is that noone relevant dies, ever. Why this bothers you? Why there have to be stakes, beyond mere enablers for character interaction and growth (and fanfics, and getting people to read IS Asagiri's agenda…)? Aren't you curious what side effects of surviving would the characters have, if they survived? Also: outside of full reality rewrite, the global stance on ability users will change for the worse. With reality rewrite you still have everyone remembering what they did do during The NotApocalypse(tm) which at the very least will lead to revealing existence of ability users to the general populace.

re: criticism 3: there has been an entire hivemind of fangirls percolating all the cherry-picked intel other characters were not privy to.

re: critisism 4: you got me there, starting from "wdym Fukuchi has a sign for 'there will be a war in twenty(?) years'". ….the thing is, technically each time Fukuchi sees the sign and passes it to the past, the timeline in which he did so ultimately ceases to be, as the main-plot-Fukuchi immediately goes to save the world. In other words, there are three states here: initial timeline, in which Dostoyevsky, through any and all means (lazy answer: raw persuation/whatever he did to Goncharov/YOLO with page and time travel) makes Fukuchi write a mark in the past using Amenogozen. So how does the sword work into this? ch87p23 suggests Fukuchi had the sword throughout the war. To make it easy on planning and to foreshadow possible future revelations, both Sigma and Tokoyami island could have been created by Dostoy using a different page, earlier in time. Why the meatgrinder island? to pull gacha for traumatized war vets + make ability users look like a threat to the public. And he got Fukuchi, with a very OP combo of his own and desperate need for hope and to (possibly) reframe his experiences as necessary to shape him into someone who will do what is needed to prevent even greater evils for all future generations and blah blah blah (there is even an advantage to taking the blame - everyone wants Dostoy dead which while inconvinient would also make fighting Fukumon very hard on morale)

That is the boring version. The deranged version - or rather, yolo with time travel - is that Sigma was written on this page, meaning: he assisted in stealing the page from which he would be written into. Given that page stops working only for parts that paradox themselves out of it's text (i.e. only 40% of the police force listened to Ranpo, instead of being an all-or-nothing affair), it would mean he keeps existing at least until the loop loses the last opportunity to close itself. This is how Dostoy could get to use Sigma before DoA arc itself (the bit with a church in the middle of a desert NOT being set in roughly-now, but in the past, as a bamboozle from Asagiri). Then it's just the matter of spotting a circumstance where Fukuchi would ask something predictable of Sigma. Then all they would need is a brush at the same time Sigma answers his question (if Sigma ends up being suspicious they're just going to detain him cause intel ability good), presumably after some light mentalism (read: a full-blown Production) for Fukuchi to form a coherent design in his head, so to speak. After that point, Dostoy through Sigma should have enough knowledge to make a sufficently educated guess for it to work.

re: poison injection: i still do not get why he didn't just close & flood the corridor soukoku was in, just to be sure/because why not. I guess this is our evidence for Dostoy being sufficently cocksure to play along. Besides, what other moves he had? Dazai is right there.

re: long-term BSD: Fyodor -> Christie -> book endgame? like, does the big picture have to be forseeable to be amusing?

*while he should have the momentum to find it out of sheer element of surprise, THIS is the real #improvise

You know what? Im going to vent about how annoyed I am abt bsd atm and put it in the tags bcuz I also want to debate it. I enjoy bsd but I am struggling to understand what exactly Asagiri is trying to do here esp when this arc is so long that the arc itself has mini arcs in it.

If anyone reads this I would love, LOVE to discuss this because I am yanking my hair in frusteration

I am putting it under a cut so that ppl who dont want to see criticism abt bsd dont have to see it

Am i being an asshole? Yes

Am i going to warn ppl before hand and remind them that they can curate their internet experience by simply not reading something that is going to criticize something they love? And the block button exists for a reason???????Also yes

That being said i dont often go off about things i dont like about media i enjoy because well i understand everything i like has pros and cons

Also i still read bsd bcuz there r other things i DO like about it

Anywayssss

The thing that is bothering me about bsd is that I dont think I can tell what any character is doing EVER. Perhaps thats just my taste and I like having some idea of whats going to happen.

The characters arcs are excellent, their actions make sense for the personalities that they have yes.

The problem i do have w bsd is that the characters are apparently constantly always somehow predicting whats going on

How in the goddamn world do you expect me to believe that Fyodor let Dazai see him kill someone through touch so that Dazai would come up w a plan like Mersault? Fyodor didn’t expect Dazai to catch him at the end of the whole virus thing so like how is that enough time for him to find a way to kill that guard by just touching his hand? Why do that unless you planned the Mersault fake death from the start?

I forget but didn’t the Hunting Dogs get Mushitaro to bring up Dazai’s crimes to get Dazai into Mersault? Was this all to get Dazai away from the agency? Extremely likely but that tells me Fyodor planned to fake his death from the star(again) WHICH IN TURN MEANS HE HAD TO HAVE FKING KNOWN SO MUCH AHEAD OF TIME which only makes sense if he had access to some type of future telling ability because some characters actions WERE random eg: below

If Gogol randomly decided to break Fyodor out of Mersault with his race against death game, how can Fyodor expect to be killed by a vampire to become Bram??? How does this make sense if he did not know that Gogol would plan this at all?

There is the panel of Fyodor fallin through the Mersault room correctly as he says its time to escape so maybe he knew Gogol would that? HOW if Gogol just came up with that plan without any of Fyodor’s input?? Alright then maybe he was acting so Dazai won’t catch on but even then how was he expecting to die so that he can become Bram?? What was his alternate plan?

Alright maybe he simply predicted Gogol to do that which I think is a bit sad for Gogol since I think his whole character arc is about how he doesn’t want to be shackled by anything and I would argue being manipulated by someone is a shackle

Criticism 2: the fact absolutely no one of importance has died in bsd manga except for in the light novels(i am including Odasaku in this) please PLEASE correct me if I missed a death

Im not counting Fukuchi as dead because jury’s still out on that given the whole thing w God!Fukuchi/Amenogozen

Esp as we have Dead Apple where whats his names ability outlived him and i think also in 55 minutes

Because well, how do you expect me to take any of the stakes in this manga seriously if no one of name dies ever, I would not have this issue if death wasnt faked out as many times as it has

Maybe Bram will actually stay dead but I doubt it

The fact Kunikida was killed this chapter just tells me that yet again, death is not a serious consequence in this manga. Esp as the book has not been used yet. Even fking HP Lovecraft is alive ffs.

If Kunikida stays dead I will HAPPILY eat my words and state that Asagiri is a master writer for fooling my reading of bsd that well.( i am obviously not saying only my interpretation of bsd is correct so pls dont come at me)

Criticism 3: why didn’t Dazai literally just kill off Fyodor w Chuuya once they got Sigma to get the info from Fyodor

I understand thats a much more author did that because thats what the writing needed and characters are only as intelligent as the story needs so … fineeeee thats on me

Criticism 4: the whole Amenogozen thing about how the war isn’t real

How can Fyodor fake the sign on the wall unless he knew what sign meant world ending to Fukuchi???

Not sure if this is a criticism but if Chuuya was sent by Mori…how did Fyodor expect him to show up? Unless Fyodor and Mori discussed that earlier together in which case Mori is doing an excellent job at pretending like he’s not inleague with Fyodor

This plan of Fyodor’s to become Bram is just so batshit insane and so reliant on people doing random things at the right time eg: Gogol and the death game, Chuuya not being used to kill Fyodor in any form, Sigma not waking up in time to warn the agency, Dazai not fking shooting Fyodor w a gun

Imagine if Gogol’s poison succeeded then well ig Fyodor would just stay in his body since he injected the poison in his own veins which hey doesn’t that mean there was no risk of Fyodor dying in that game? I am likely wrong but it is kinda funny

Unrelated but wow tumblr does NOT want to make writing this on mobile easy bruh

I think the reason I’m so frusterated with this is that bsd is so unpredictable that for me it feels like its going beyond the suspension of disbelief i have

Its breaking the intelligence scale that they set with Fyodor, Dazai and Ranpo that it feels too much to believe

My other issue is I dont know what the whole long term thing w BSD is, and I am a bit tired of that. That might be my personal taste where I like to know what kind of ending or long term things I hope to see in a series but this is a bit too absured for me which might be the point

If anyone reads this entire nonsensical essay you have my respect

alternatively: he read the rumor mill post Dead Apple and knows Ranpo was yeeted out into the normie dimension, hence: not an ability user. So the angle would be more that he would shine brighter and dazzle more people if there was noone with magic bullshit powers to overshadow him, with the parry could be that then he'd be utterly alone (no way for Fukuzawa to come up with 'you're a wizard Harry' bit with enough confidence to not seem sus) and there would be no convenient explanation ('I'm magic, deal with it' vs ...do they even know autism exists?) to throw at people.

...but should it? That would be revealing an exploitable weakness.

...which could be parried with:

greatness would find greatness (to nod at C&P some more)

that's what the internet is for (wink at the camera :^) )

that he would end up making his own group, thus creating a place to be for others (wink at the litnerds in the audience + give this sort of 'selfdestruction for the benefit of others is fine, actually' vibe)

at which point the followup would depend purely on the demands of the plot/authorial intent, yeah?

also interesting we never had Naoto Shirogane moment with him - i.e. without ADA, even if he was let to crime scenes he'd be treated as a tool, not a person. In this context, it really is noticable how it seems Minoura is framed like his sole point of contact with the local force. Yes, it's to set up him rescuing Ranpo later, but...

now that i think of it Untold Origins does not include a single use of an ability that could not be explained via mundane skills - Flawless as raw skill+luck, for instance.

... ONE MORE THING: what are the implications of Ranpo basically RPing Dostoy out of necessity to get a result he needs, side effects be damned?

Listen. Ranpo wasn't born with an advantage. Ranpo's ability to understand cases rationale seems like an advantage, but actually it is not, because Ranpo is trying to hold on among the talented people with his brain, and he is fighting with people who have a gift in their hands. What happened like someone fighting against superior intelligence with their own analysis. A working person who makes the move with their ability to analyze against someone blessed with talent. Ranpo seems to have an advantage, but actually he also has disadvantages because there would be no world he can live if his learned talent gone. That's why I so want to see Ranpo and Fyodor talk. Imagine, Fyodor there are people gifted with ability, Fyodor see this as unfair, a sint and argues with Ranpo, who isn't actually gifted but has a talent.

it drags levels down to level 15 and then you have to complete combat nodes to level up. So I was forced to face a level 30 power enhanced boss with two levels 15 characters.

as first i was like: "wtf is this even beatable after all the changes" then tl;dr 6 turns with base sinners+F2P ego, ergo skill issue. rant is going to be of questionable nature, but i'm hoping to make an example out of Bongy on how to problemsolve the shit out of bosses/harder content.

we get an item at the start. You spooked me, so i reloaded once for Eclipse of Scarlet Moths. Coffee and Cranes (which is OP, always.) or whatever is synergistic with your team (event items say rupture/burn/bind/haste) should work too - just keep in mind the pool ego gifts through this dungeon is small and lust-heavy. Ended up picking up the latter and Helterfly's Dream (and its' taking wrath dmg for the rest of the dungeon), for no good reason, lel.

teambuilding: during the event i remember caving in and taking sous-chef gregor (why ppl do not think he's ridiciously good for abno fights is beyond me). But as per tradition, base units+F2P ego. Since we have been yeeted out of the dungeon, checking the moveset is fine. Not sure if the game shows you this after you fail. Chickens are weak to lust+envy, so 3 with lust (Ryoshu, DonQ, Heathcliff) + Hong Lu b/c Entertainment + Faust b/c Emitter. Entertainment proved useless, but base Hong Lu is still really good dps of the feast-and-famine subflavor. Emitter proved only moderately useful. The actual goodstuff, as per usual, were Faust's s2 s3 debuffs. s1 still a joke. Alternatively/additionally: fish for units that have slash/blunt resist/lust or wrath resist+ on EGO. Regardless if you actually go for these on purpose, you want to know this, so if it's down to the wire you'll know who can facetank… …is what should be done for MAXIMUM SWEATING ENGAGE, but with F2P i do that on 2nd try ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ …just decided DonQ gonna be the emergency tank, since Sancho heals.

oldschool MD: taking both event nodes as they are OP as fuck (Marinade!). then usual: ? > minifights > crossed swords > abnos. I thought you keep all sins between combat nodes, but apparently they're halved. No matter, we're farming for emitter/bodysack/sancho spam. Other surprise: it keeps resetting the movegain order. There are no pitstops, so sweaty readjusting it is. (Started with Ryoshu on 1st b/c poise, then went 'duh, need pride'/sloth crew for fast Entertainment to 45, as usual with base Hong Lu. Ignored tremor.) It turned out you get a few level ups to 30, so i just slapped them on dps (Heathcliff -> Hong Lu -> DonQ), so when Headchickens came, these units clashed and the rest did 1-sided. Order ended up like that as in old MD you could level up as a heal of sorts.

actual boss:

heals per chicken so body is not the priority

drains sp per chicken so spawns are more important (hoarded resources -> Emitter if needed)

fragile after breaking a part -> restated that boss hp isn't actually relevant

move that spawns units on-hit -> will use it once units are cleared, and is THE key skill to win clash with - all else can be facetanked

wikia says bucket is breakable-for-realsies AND is the part that spawns, so that's where 1sideds should go

as abno nodes show, spawns themselves are irrelevant as long as they do not attack someone a +% dmg modifier

other than that, best practices apply:

onesided with s1 unless Reasons (Faust kept Bongy (bucket)'s atk down)

AoE EGOs aimed so that other shots go to other units. New lookup is jankier for the aware, but iirc bucket has target weight 2, so will eat 2 shots (outside of the primary target they go front-to-back)

keeping s1 on bottom track for replacing

prognosis for 1coin vs multicoin is ALWAYS a lie

onesided paralyze et al to force later attacks to clash favorably

if you know a sinner is going to Eat Shit due to outspeed reasons you can try forcing a stagger before it happens

to further persuade you into drinking this raw ambrosia of wisdom:

Eyeballing it it looks like <80% to win, but plugging it into a calc says it's 13%! DonQ still proved great, Haste on clash win is real

'if it's irrelevant why do you mention it' you may ask. 'you'll thank me later.' is how i answer.

When I finally beat hard mode chicken I am going to guzzle a pitcher of tea over that fucks corpse. Like I do like the idea of one move being able to summon minions combined with being a minion focused enemy. It's just the funny level systems means that two of the sinners can't roll high enough to actually stop any moves and that's shit.

finding this curious as i was debating whether or not to link your Summation in there. Like, someone solved DQ 'just' before canto 7 and response was ecstatic? what gives?

A momentous occasion is upon us.

The Daiyu-Baoyu theory has its first haters on Reddit 🎉🎉🎉🎉

// Anyway don't go harass anyone over this m'kay? In fact I hope we get more haters cause I actually find these comments really entertaining.

I hope we get enough Redditors knowing about it and hating it that someone tries to make a full post trying to disprove it so I can milk that thing and talk about my own experience desperately trying, in vain, to find contradictions that would disprove it myself.