Why The Northern Fremen Don't Believe In The Prophecy

Why the Northern Fremen don't believe in the Prophecy

The reason is just an incredibly simple, sociological reason. What do they keep pointing out about Arrakis? That the south is harsh and uninhabitable... to outworlders. We know this harsh environment increases religious fervour to bolster survival, but what does this mean for the north? Why did they lose their faith?

The settler's cities, Arrakeen and Carthag, are situated in the north. The Harkonnens don't believe the south is habitable so they only mine spice in the north. Their brutal suppression of the Fremen are only in the north.

So imagine you are one of the Northern Fremen. You know there's a prophecy about the Lisan al-Gaib, the Voice from the Outer World that would save your people. But here are these outworlders, who rampage your planet, who enslave and brutalize your people, who only see Arrakis as a resource, and its inhabitants as a means to an end, or "rats" that are in the way of their bottom line. Rats to be exterminated. Seeing all of this, of course you would start to doubt the prophecy. If this is how real outworlders are, why would the Lisan al-Gaib be any different from them?

And this is why Chani and the other Northern Fremen stop believing. They see through its manipulation of the Fremen. But they also understand that if the Fremen band together and fight back, they can win battles on their own. The Southern Fremen don't see any of this, because they're essentially protected from the violence of the colonizers by the dust storms near the equator. They might hear stories about the Harkonnens, but that wouldn't shake their faith in the Lisan al-Gaib. They are willing to simply wait for the "right" kind of outworlder, which does come along in the form of Paul and Jessica.

I think this is a really clever explanation of this divide in the thinking of the Northern and Southern Fremen, which is also related to the idea of how the environment that people grow up in shape their beliefs and their culture. Even though this is a departure from the first novel, this change is still true to the spirit of Frank Herbert's Dune.

More Posts from Drowningworms and Others

1 year ago

Porn and Instagram

The true damage of instagram girls (and guys) is comparison of normal people to "perfection." When you spend all your time looking at the most "perfectly" proportioned and "beautiful" women, you will constantly be aware of the difference between women (including your own beloved wife) and the ideal woman. So that awareness can lead to dissatisfaction, actively wishing your wife to be more ideal, possibly more tempted by "better" models. In any case it leads to less intimacy and satisfaction in bed.

And it blinds you to the beautiful people all around you till you will only accept someone who looks like a "model" to feel attraction for or even just to give them a chance.

They did it to us and they will do it to you too.

We thought we were better than our parents because we could see one another's beauty a little bit. It took less then 10 years for the powers of this world to do it to basically all of us too using swimsuit issues and Internet porn.

Making men detest women who aren't "beautiful". Driving women, girls, boys, and men insane. So so harmful to our sisters in this world. You see how we are now? You think we wanted to be like this? But now we aren't even aware of it and think there are objective beauty standards we can judge others and ourselves on.

Even our men are deeply insecure about our appearance and only believe we're good-looking if others tell us. See what it does to everyone as they get older and less and less akin to a beauty standard based on being a 20yo.

Even if you know it's propaganda, you are not immune. They will do it to you if they can.

1 year ago

I actually went to Gobblers Knob in Punxsutawney and was close enough to see the no shadow for myself before the drunk guys in top hats told us what they saw.

I experienced the whole frigid, boring, tedious, painful, boring, long, standing room only for 6 hours of physical hell, low rent, cheapass, tacky, corny, tawdry, obnoxious, fucking dry event for you.

I Actually Went To Gobblers Knob In Punxsutawney And Was Close Enough To See The No Shadow For Myself

It involved security pat downs for liquor on every man woman and child to keep out liquor. Weed was illegal by community consent thanks to Reagan. It was 10 degrees and dark in the dead of a Pennsylvania Winter. And there was absolutely no entertainment for hours till it got daylight. Then this local DJ comes on to entertain the out of towners. He's horrible.

Remember that we are the cash cow for this little group of local good old boys and their buddies. And for the entire town. And they treat us like shit. Just penned us up and hit us for cash money at every turn. This was 1998, so that wasn't unusual everyone outside major businesses required cash. I'm dead sure they have those little credit card scanners everywhere now. They milked us for everything they could think of.

And it was so fucking cold. You don't understand cold until you know standing huddled still in the dark cold. Most people never really experience cold. Insulation is really fucking good now. I overpaid so much when goose down jackets got sorta affordable. They were like miracles to me. I would have given anything for such a miraculous jacket then. I had to make do with layers of insulated flannels and long underwear. I did have true winter underwear from my Boy Scout days so I was a good bit less cold than my buddies who didn't know how to layer.

Most people only experience shoveling snow cold. Maybe skiing cold. A few hunting cold. (Real damn cold) And a mighty few who have lived in it for days just sitting around camping in tents with nice sleeping bags and a big fire to warm us. In teens or subzero temps. I have. You have to dig deep and layer well. And just accept being cold every single minute of your life outside of your sleeping bag.

So we were doing hunter cold. This was Western Pennsylvania. Everyone knew how to do hunter cold. My buddies were all suburban kids. I told them how to dress. A few listened.

3+ hours of my best friends in the world talking shit to AC/DC and Ace of Base or whatever was the thing.

That night we started at like 3am and drove a few hours of dark Pennsylvania highway. Just darkness, trees, and sky. I can't remember if the stars were out. Something about those Appalachian Forest highways just are monotonous in a weird way.

Those road trips are always fun. I strongly suggest. Even if you have to brave the Appalachian Static.

Anyway we arrive at Punxsutawney. It is in the middle of nowhere. Just another isolated abandoned steel town. They have a bit of a real downtown that most of these towns utterly lack. Often it's a gas station and a Dollar General and a bunch of run down houses with a school 40 minutes away it shares with the other rundown towns.

But Punxsutawney has a nice little town of happy people because of Phil and our fascination with this thing.

So of course there is not parking for 30,000 people. In a town of 5,000. So they rope off some field frozen solid and park us all charging Disney parking fees.

They subcontract school buses to haul people from the parking lot to the main event. The bus drivers are the first line of defense against alcohol and drugs.

Security is the second. Compete with pat downs and local cops along with PA Troopers with drug dogs and quotas to meet. No spoiling the fun with chemical enhancement!

Then you walk for fucking ever. Slowly. Going to the Knob.

It is deadly cold. And it begins to dawn on you what you are in for in this grassy pen with nothing but a porta potty or two for entertainment.

I Actually Went To Gobblers Knob In Punxsutawney And Was Close Enough To See The No Shadow For Myself

Look at all that fun!

This was before phones people. My friends and I were super studious and none of us owned any kind of video game. No handheld games. Maybe you thought to bring a newspaper or book. I think I brought a book. I'm sure at least one of them brought engineering notes to study. Most just talk and bitch about the cold.

Cold in the dark is different from cold in the light. It is so much deeper without the solar radiation slightly warming your surface and your spirits.

Then the dawn brings light and a little warmth and hope.

Then the dawn brings the DJ.

Small town DJs are interesting critters. They are small town famous and often they are unique personalities that can be really entertaining. At least between songs and commercials. Some of them are pretty amazing like Nipsey, Jen, and Earl in Harrisburg/Hershey/Lancaster/Lebanon area back when it was even more podunk backwater.

It was 1998 and this guy showed up.

I Actually Went To Gobblers Knob In Punxsutawney And Was Close Enough To See The No Shadow For Myself

So this small town guy is used to entertaining local venues with his shtick that everyone knows and loves with his slightly out of date look and inside local jokes.

Today he has 2 hours of just him on a stage in front of 30,000 pissed off college students who were expecting a lot more entertainment and maybe some food or drinks and tired & grumpy rural folk hoping to get in a little fun and excitement before going to work. At least half the crowd had found a way to sneak in a flask or something. So people were unruly.

And we just watch the poor guy spend 2 hours fighting for his life up there feeling bad for him trying to entertain us while hosting his fun little morning show for his listeners who are probably loving it all.

He got heckled. Badly. This was 25 years ago and we weren't very nice.

After 2 hours of this entertainment. The main event started.

My heroes arrived on the scene.

I Actually Went To Gobblers Knob In Punxsutawney And Was Close Enough To See The No Shadow For Myself
I Actually Went To Gobblers Knob In Punxsutawney And Was Close Enough To See The No Shadow For Myself

They have been partying all night long. In a nice warm place with warm food, comfy chairs/couches, running water, and a ton of alcohol. They are all drunk as skunks. The all come up on stage, wave and whip up the crowd, pull out their buddy, give him some scritches and lift him up to the crowd like he's the new Lion King, and then examine his shadow, make their proclamation, smile and wave, go back to their party, and count their money.

This is the highlight of the entire event. The peak of excitement. The best it got for the whole day.

Then they shoved the DJ back on stage, the national media and anyone with connections left, and the rest of us were kept penned up for another hour or 2 till it was our turn to take a school bus back to our frozen car, a 3+ hour drive through winter highways to get back in time for afternoon classes.

It was so much fun.


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11 months ago

Psych wards are psychotic and evil

By the way, friends, if you ever have a mental breakdown or are suicidal or anything like that don't go to the emergency room. The following is not just one bad hospital. It's basically all of them. I've talked to other people in other parts of the country.

I had a massive breakdown summer of 2023 from a new anti-anxiety med and a lot of stress. We called for an ambulance and got 4 cops instead. And I got a nice strapped down ride to the ER. To be fair, I was not in my right mind at the time and was unpredictable.

But it wasn't fair.

ER psych wards are straight out of 1923.

They use hours of stress positions and cold to torture the inmates into "submission" ("coercive measures"). And it doesn't matter if you are already submissive. I was obviously in control of myself by then and fully cooperative. The bastards wanted their fun anyway. After the hours of stress positions, they continue to keep "patients" unsettled with over medication of "anti-psychotics", verbally shame them from being sick, and keep them in a constant state of anxiety and discomfort after they have "coerced" them into submission while way too many heavily armed cops roam around doing their own bullying. All the time denying them obviously needed medical care including simple first aid. The "nurses" and "doctors" themselves have lost their empathy and replaced it with sadism. And they ruin the good hearts the younger ones to be just like them.

I didn't hear a single compassionate word given to anyone.

There are not private rooms. It is a open, tiled area buried in the basement behind many doors and guards and closed to visitors with a bathroom and guardhouse in the center with a few alcoves and no doors. While I was strapped down for hours with my arm cranked behind my head, with my shirt pulled up for cold torture, and the cuffs tightened and biting into my wrists (but they could still shove two fingers into my flesh and squeeze them in there so it was "legal") the other inmates were just wandering around me and I was utterly vulnerable should one of them decide to do anything to me. People are all dressed in paper gowns and sitting on hospital beds, wall benches, and wandering to pass the time.

I have so many stories just from 18 hours of being in there witnessing the worse psychological and physical tortures they were doing to the people they knew had nobody. It was a constant provocation of the most vulnerable people in the hospital in order to excuse more "coercive measures".

I watched them kill an old woman's dog.

It was going to be 115F that day. So early in the morning around 5am she started asking for her phone to call her brother to go get her dog out of her trailer and save it from heat death. They told her she could use their phone. But she didn't know the number (who knows anyone's number anymore?) She asked for her cell phone in her belongings right behind them and they said they would get it and then they strung her along till 3 in the afternoon, making her beg and plead and be oh so polite so she wouldn't end up on a bed with her arm cranked behind her head for being too loud or give them an excuse to simply straight up tell her no for being too "disrespectful."

They were petty too, loudly telling people breakfast was on it's way 3-4 hours before they knew breakfast would get there just to make people feel hungry and get them anxious and waiting assuming it was coming any minute now. As the staff kept reminding us breakfast would be here any minute every few minutes.

And they take away even the ability to escape by suicide. An escape so many would surely make if they could. I doubt Hell would be much worse. The only reason I got out so "soon" was I had an advocate (spouse) trying to bring me home. To be fair people are sent there for being "suicidal". But I don't see how it could do anything but hasten their descent towards taking their own life.

They, like prisons, don't help anyone. It's just for storage and terror. And it caused me trauma that continues to give me flashbacks months later. I'm not sure what state I would be in now without a loving family and a spouse who loves compassionately and deeply to heal me. Or my long-time counselor. Or my chickens. I held my little bunny for hours as my little angry little tribble did his best to comfort me. I slept with terrible dreams for nearly 48 straight. I couldn't even eat for a week. It feels even now like it set me back a year in my recovery from the pit I only recently crawled out of.

I think the second worst thing was the insanity of it all. Why hurt people who are already hurting so much? I get the whole Nietzsche thing is in play. So fucking what? It's still insane.

The worst thing was meeting a young resident doctor who was obviously gay and Latino. He knew what it was like to be oppressed. I could still hear some basic goodness in his voice. But he was already cold and compassionless. They were ruining his good heart just as they had done to so many others. And he will become twice as much a son of hell and traumatize thousands more over his long life.

And I know that is only a snapshot of the evil in our empire.


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1 year ago
This Is What I Boop With Btw

this is what i boop with btw

11 months ago
Much To Think About

much to think about

8 months ago
Tweet from "@LepantoInst": "Like a Soviet-era dictator, and in a raw exercise of power without provision of law, Pope Francis has removed Bp. Joseph Strickland as bishop of Tyler, TX."

Beneath: "Readers added context they thought people might want to know"

"Misleading: implies irregularity or illegality under Catholic rule/Vatican law. The Catholic Church doctrine of papal supremacy is over 1000 years old. The Pope "has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered." Includes link to Vatican website for "Catechism of the Catholic Church," and a link to the Wikipedia page for "Papal Supremacy."
Reply tweet from "@Emma506131772": "The pope has right to exercise his power unhindered lol
He's supreme legislator"

Reply tweet from "@LepantoInst": "Really? The Pope is a dictator who has the authority to exercise unlimited power without due process?"

Beneath: "Readers added context they thought people might want to know"

"Yes." Includes a link to the Wikipedia page for "Papal Supremacy" again.

im fucking sobbing why did they kill him twice in a row in the community notes

1 year ago

Travel Reimbursements

Overly draconian/miserly policies for funding/reimbursement of things like work travel or business purchases in gov and institutions is not be jerks.

It's performative.

To demonstrate to others, particularly working class and conservatives, that their taxes and donations are not going to fund frivolous things or being used by employees to benefit themselves. The real enrichment and benefiting is done by the rich/powerful people who make those rules and piously follow them while milking the system for contracts, kick backs, and pet projects.

It doesn't hurt them to pay a few dozen or a few hundred extra dollars here and there for business travel. The rest of us down here at the wage slave level are hurting and 50-100 bucks a day means so little to the rich, but so much to us. It means so much to me if I'm paying for my own meals or uber rides & tipping waitstaff out of my pocket.

Most of the rich travel at the per deim level anyway and could be making a little bit of spending money if they knew how to live like we do. And really, I don't care if some wage slave gets in on that action with their own job and makes an extra 50-100 bucks a day traveling for work. It sounds glamorous, but if you have a real life, it sucks. And if it doesn't suck, well, at least you have that going for you.

It means so much to me if I bring home an extra $200 for mileage. Why would we begrudge that to each other? It costs our masters practically nothing and we are so angry if another wage slave gets a little extra pocket money but don't lose our shit at the raping and pillaging the rich do to us every single day.

And it's because they are assholes and hope you will spend more of your own hard-earned money instead of using the piles of cash they keep around to wipe their asses with.

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drowningworms - Drowning Worms
Drowning Worms

Some people catch fish. Some people just drown worms.

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