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17 posts
To everyone who puts fanart or writing or video edits or music or meta about Wyll in the Wyll tag: I love you. Thank you.
As patch 8 is going to be released, we are going to see new features and changes.
But Larian Studios still wonβt give Wyll any content.
Larian knows people want Wyll to have more content but theyβre actively ignoring them while liking peopleβs demands of having a Gortash romance.
Before anyone says βcomplaining wonβt do anythingβ, it does anything.
For examples:
β’ Ascended!Astarion fans complaining about their Tav being afraid when Astarion kisses them. Larian changed Ascended!Astarionβs kiss to have Tav smiling after being treated like they were nothing.
Basically Larian threw out the whole entire point that Astarion is continuing the cycle of abuse that Cazador placed him through. Because they wanted to placate the Ascended!Astarion fans.
β’ Fans complaining about how Laeβzel is βtoo meanβ when you first meet her after escaping the ship. Larian changed that to have her a bit nicer.
If thereβs more let me know.
Larian has shown how little they care about Wyll and his story, heck! Heβs the most integral piece of the story, but they donβt bother to give him content or fix the bugs that he has.
They donβt even bother to give Wyll a page that talks about him only without putting Mizora in it.
Larian can do better and they should be actively better but they chose not to do better.
Astarion this Astarion that.
have you SEEN wyll ravengard?????
I love Wyll so much guys. Did you know that? It's important to me that you know that.
I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am normal about Wyll Ravengard, I am norm-
I miss my fiancΓ© (fictional Baldur's Gate 3 companion Wyll Ravengard)
im so in love with wyll ravengard
Well, let's say I was writing a part of my Tav's story with Wyll directly connected to the dialogue he has during the tiefling party, and while struggling with this bit, I've realized there's quite a few misconceptions floating around. I felt compelled to add information to the table that might clear them, so here we go.
First, what exactly happens to Wyll when he disobeys Mizora in act one? Well, he doesn't get turned into a devil, he certainly doesn't get turned into a tiefling, he's not a half fiend, not a demon, none of that. Wyll stays human, but he has horns and red eyes (and other features we can't see on his model as of now).
(Everyone has their race listed, Wyll's remains "Human")
This is because when a warlock fails to uphold some part of their contract they can suffer a certain number of consequences, Wylls is βThe character grows horns, a tail, or some other devilish features that can't be removed by any means short of divine intervention. As long as these marks persist the character detects as a fiend when subjected to Detect Evil and Good spells or similar magic.β ( from Baldur's Gate: Descent into Avernus, page 214)
And Iβve come across some people that think it wasnβt so bad of a punishment, that he was being racist towards the tieflings, or just not being justified in being upset after having his body forcibly changed against his will. I think they are missunderstanding just how insidious Mizoraβs actions were, and here I just want to give some context to maybe bring a better understanding to the situation. Your conclusions are up to you.
Gonna start by using a not exact analogy, but I think itβs going to make the explanation easier. Stick with me for a minute.
Remember Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean? He had a branded βPβ on his arm that marked him as a pirate. A murderer, robber, criminal, etc. in the eyes of the society he was a part of. What did Jack do to earn the branding? (if you donβt know this I suggest you look up the βpeople arenβt cargo mateβ scene) He refused to transport slaves and later freed them, and Beckett had him marked as punishment.
Then, in the first movie, he saves Elizabeth, a woman he didnβt know, from drowning. Right after however, when Norrington sees he has a branded βPβ, heβs like βalright, off to jail with you, and then hangingβ, no other option crosses his mind. Again, Jack doesnβt know Elizabeth, isnβt indicated to think he is going to be rewarded for helping her, he just sees a drowning person, sees that no one else is going to help, and chooses to save them. That is a pretty selfless/good aligned thing to do, for no other reason that he was the one able to do it, yet the branding in his arm overrides any good action he could ever do, marking him as a criminal for execution and no further thought.
In a way, thatβs what Mizora did to Wyll; she forever visibly branded him as someone that has made deals with devils, and that in the world of DnD is a VERY BAD THING. And I really like the mod that gives him more devilish features, don't get me wrong, but I think there was something clever about choosing to leave him looking more human. He canβt be confused with a tiefling, he doesnβt have the ears, the claws, the tail, all those features that characterize them. He looks kind of uncanny, and that would be like a red flag for anyone in that world. (Beyond the already existing hate for tieflings that Iβm not gonna tackle on here because itβs a complicated thing that deserves its own post). And Wyll wants to do good, he wants to help people, to be a positive force in the world so, so badly. This dude got abducted by a nautiloid, got tadpoleβd, and the first thing he did right after that was come across the Tiefling refugees and be like βOh you need help? No worries let me teach you self defense. Oh you being attacked by goblins? Let me blast them real quickβ. His way of saying fuck you to all the awful things that have happened to him is being aggressively good and kind. Mizora knows this very well, wants to see him suffer for her amusement, wants to remind him he can't escape her claws, so her choice of punishment was to forever taint his future interactions with mistrust and suspicion. Some people can go real fast from βoh thank God they saved meβ to βoh no, are they gonna rob me, are they trying to trick me, are they in cahoots with the ones that attacked me first?β just because of outward appearances. Especially in DnD world. And that deserves its own conversation, but we're focusing on Wyll here.
(Mizora, when I catch you Mizora)
βWell, maybe he shouldnβt have made a deal in the first plac- - β He was seventeen, alone, preyed upon by Mizora and put in an impossible situation. Please PAY ATTENTION to the story youβre witnesing.
Anyway.
About the tieflings. I know itβs easy to think his words can be derisive towards them, but itβs less about the horns and more about his body being changed against his will. Imagine instead that he got half his face burned, or something that disfigured him. I think his feelings at the moment were closer to that, and yeah they are pretty insensitive words to say to someone with a similar condition (horns or disfiguration), but when feelings are fresh and raw like that itβs easy to say insensitive things. Not saying it was ok for him to say those things, but ther was no malice in his words. Iβve also seen some people share that they think Mizora wanted to change him more to make him unrecognizable to his original self, the Wyll Ravenguard kid, and I think there is some truth to that too.Β She wants to make sure that Wyll remembers that he belongs to her, there's no question to that.
(MIZORA, WHEN I CATCH YOU MIZORA)
Whether the Tieflings refugees would feel unsettled by Wyll or not? Yes. In a way, they would. From reasons aside from the ones I explained above, remember that these specific tieflings come from Elturel. If you didnβt pass the History check or donβt remember, Elturel is a city that was literally ripped from the land and dragged to Avernus, First layer of hell (it left a hole on the ground and everything) because their mayor made a deal with the Archdevil Zariel some decades back in the timeline. He sold the souls of all its citizens and the city itself.
This was probably one of the worst times of their lives. Some even got captured and forced to participate in the blood War, like Dammon as a mechanic. And after Elturel got returned to the surface, the tieflings lost their homes because they reminded the other citizens of the literal Hell theyβd just gone through, and they kicked them out. And remember, they met and saw Wyll as a human, and then saw him with horns. Itβs not unreasonable to think that by looking at him they would be reminded of all the events that led them to the awful situation theyβre in. Because of someone that was making deals with devils, just like Wyll. Even if his situation is completely different. And Wyll knows that, thatβs why he tells you the tieflings are unsettled by him and chooses to stay away during the party.
It was never just about the horns.
And I know Wyll calls himself a devil but I think itβs because itβs the closest thing he looks as; devils are a whole different race with their own intricacies, although humans can be turned into devils ONCE their souls go to Avernus and they start climbing the power hierarchy there (Mizora and Raphael are cambions/ half-devils btw, which is a different thing,Β there are plenty of videos exploring those details more in depth).
Do I think Larian should have made some of this information clearer/easier to access? Maybe? but to be fair, it's a game focused and dedicated to a crowd that was already somewhat familiar with the source material, that blew up waay out of what they originally expected to reach. Hopefully theyβll add some clarifications like they did to other quests.Β
Anyway these are my two cents to the conversation, have a nice day, and don't hesitate to add your two cents if you feel like it!
So, Iβm currently playing my Wyll Romance run in BG3 and I had no idea just how dirty they did my man! I want more! So much more!
I want to console Wyll when his father gets tadpoled. I want to stroll with him through the streets of the Gate when we first arrive there. I want to reassure him that his devil form doesnβt take away his worth. I want to sleep with him beneath the stars - give me a spicy scene! Not the PG13 shit you actually get.
Wyll had such a big story, yet Larian does nothing with it. Meanwhile Astarion, whose story is not elemental to the main plot at all, gets an abundance of extra scenes. And donβt get me wrong, I absolutely love Astarion and his story, but seeing how little effort was put into the Wyll Romance Arc breaks my heart.
Honestly, there was so much potential. I want more Wyll content!
"Iβm a feminist but" *insert picture of man* this
"Iβm a feminist but" *insert picture of man* that
Iβm a feminist AND
I just put some detailed, bulleted feedback in the Larian discord server. If you'd like a cheat sheet for ideas on what things to mention in your feedback be it in their discord, on the feedback board on their forum, through their report form (select feedback in the 'report type' drop down menu. Someone also suggested sending each issue as a separate feedback instead of all in one which is a fabulous idea), on twitter, or so on I will drop what I wrote below the cut. You are free to copy my homework and just change the wording a little if it makes sending feedback less daunting.
Hi! Firstly, I will say that I love Wyll very much. Many people do! He has far more devoted fans than you may realize :sparkling_heart: However, we are now 6 patches and 17 hotfixes in and the issue of Wyllβs content disparity still has not been addressed. This is especially notable after the romance-themed Patch 6 which did not even address the major disparity in romance content for arguably the most romantic character.
To break down what I mean:
Despite multiple patches, Wyll still lacks the same level of content as other characters in terms of overall dialogue time (several hours less than Karlach who was added later and has still received new scenes and content beyond epilogues, kisses, and idles). This has yet to be addressed.
He is the only character without a single romance greeting while most if not all other characters have several.
In the epilogue (which was created after the game and thus cannot be excused as βran out of time to finish himβ as other players have tried to suggest about the main game) Wyll is the only origin companion who cannot be hugged or kissed while you can do one or both to all other characters.
Wyll only has two romance scenes compared to all other origin companions who have 3+
He is the only romanceable character lacks a sex scene (or equivalent non-sexual romantic scene to fill this gap)
Wyll is unable to make his own choice in the climax of his story.
Wyll has the least reactivity among the main origin companions, both as a companion and as an Origin character.
Wyll still suffers from bugs that have yet to be addressed and fixed
Despite other character appearances being tweaked between EA in the full game as well as in subsequent patches, Wyll still wears the default warlock outfit which wasnβt even recolored like Galeβs wizard outfit was.
In line with the above, Wyllβs appearance as a devil does not match what is described in his dialogue (claws, more ridges, etc.)
The only updates that have been made to Wyll are the ones that affect all characters (kisses and epilogues) so, to clarify, this is not what I or any others giving feedback are referring to. We are referring to the above issues that have been present since the full game was released.
He is arguably one of the most important characters to the story, one of the most romantically inclined protagonists, and he has one of the most interesting stories. I believe many more people would see this were he given the proper updates and adjustments to bring him up to the content levels of other companions.
It is especially rare that a black character has the chance to play the role in fantasy media that Wyll has been given (heroic, romantic, the center of intruige, witty and charming, and so on), but it is unfortunately common for black characters to get sidelined in writing and for this reason I believe it's all the more important that these things are addressed. He is an important character to many people and would be a wonderful breath of fresh air for the genre if given more time and care.
All of this has been a pretty big topic of discussion on various social media, especially since Patch 6 was released, and I would be more than happy to share those posts (particularly those from social media sites Larian isnβt on) if requested so that a wider range of organic feedback and interest can be seen. If you have any further questions you are free to contact me about it! If you would like more detailed suggestions on what might be done to improve and update his story and integration, myself and especially the many talented and passionate Wyll writers and enjoyers out there would be more than happy to contribute.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this!
friends i have perished i am deceased