over-by-the-fishtank
Hi we’er the Mountain cap collectiveCPTSD,C-DID,ASD,Low empathy because of abuse, CSA survivorAsk pronouns, but you can just use they/them for anybody
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Satanic Panic, The False Memory Foundation’s Shaky Origins, and Why You Should Believe RAMCOA Survivors
(TW: mentions of RAMCOA, False Memory Foundation, child torture & death, cults, trafficking)
Pretty disappointed to see a fairly popular and well known blog on tumblr is encouraging the idea that RAMCOA doesn’t exist. Just came across this post and was pretty bummed to see the comments too.
For those that agree with them (most of my followers won’t but who knows who will stumble across this), please know that RAMCOA has been going on for much longer than the Satanic Panic. The Satanic Panic was fabricated in an effort to discredit RAMCOA survivors. It was supported by the False Memory Foundation, which was created by a man (and his wife) trying to prove his daughter’s repressed memories of trauma involving him did not really happen. [Explained further in the third article further down in this post]
For the record, false memory/planting false memories has been disproven, it’s not possible to fully plant false memories in patients. Some memories can be altered to an extent because memories can be disjointed and influence from others can cause memories to shift slightly, which is why it’s not encouraged for trauma patients to share exact detailed memories with each other. For example, if two trauma patients were abused by their father and had a similar situation happen and patient A spoke about their experience in detail, if both fathers wore glasses and patient A describes their father to have black rimmed glasses, patient B’s memory might shift to believe that their father also had black rimmed glasses, even though his glasses were gold rimmed. However, it’s not possible to fully plant memories that do not exist in a patient’s memory. The “base memory” so to speak has to be there in order for any alterations to occur, and those alterations that are possible are often rather minuscule, such as glasses or whether or not their abuser had facial hair or not, or the color of the person’s eyes. Not an entire scene of RA. [Again, explained well by the third article below.]
Repressed memory has been proven to exist. (Though it’s more accurately called dissociated memories by clinicians) It can even exist in people who have traumas that happen in adulthood. Pieces of a traumatic event may go missing in a patient’s working memory, and they may not retrieve it until they are ready to process the memory and all the emotions and information that comes with it. However, it still exists stored in the brain, just in a different area than working memory. It’s why triggers to the traumatic event (that the patient may not even realize are triggers until they occur) can cause flashbacks and memory resurfacing during said flashbacks.
Some sources explaining the False Memory Foundation and the harm they’ve caused: [a good overview of a woman who was major in the development of the idea of repressed memory being a myth, by a researcher of child psychiatry], [while this is a psychology today article, I think this explains well how misused the idea of FMS - false memory syndrome - is.] [A comprehensive article explaining the roots of the FMF and how the studies used to “prove” false memory are terrible and easily debunked, with several assertions from professionals in the field.] I want to add that while the FMF has dissolved and rightfully so, the British False Memory Society is still alive and well, as well as the Satanic Temple’s Grey Faction, and both groups still cite False Memory Syndrome as being real and claim that RAMCOA survivors have false memories of their abuse.
However, before Satanic Panic happened, people were starting to actually believe in the existence of RAMCOA and the concept of DID was brought into the mainstream. A survivor on tiktok has a very good video on this situation. And that scared people, especially the abusers themselves who didn’t want to get caught. That’s when the False Memory Foundation stepped in on the heels of Satanic Panic and literally rewrote the textbooks therapists learned from, and basically taught everyone that repressed memory doesn’t exist. Any therapists that spoke about their patients’ experiences with RAMCOA were sued. Therapists stopped wanting to treat RAMCOA patients for fear of being sued and/or losing their license or being told they planted these memories in their patients’ heads and possibly losing their licenses. It led to generations of old therapists not treating RAMCOA patients and generations of new therapists learning it doesn’t exist.
But it does exist. To outright deny that child torture cannot exist is absurd. 1-2% of reported child abuse falls under the definition of child torture. [source, TW: photos of children with serious injuries from torture included on page 7 of this document] For the record, my abuse was never and has never been reported, and most survivors—RAMCOA and non-RAMCOA, whose trauma falls under the definition of torture—never reported or plan to report.
Even if you find the mind control aspect to be far-fetched, ritual abuse most certainly does exist. I’ve seen videos on the surface web on fucking tiktok of all places of child torture and ritual abuse. Organized abuse such as sex trafficking and labor trafficking does exist. Two out of those three things in the acronym are well documented to exist. And for the record, ritual abuse and cult abuse even in adults can cause extreme mind and identity alteration, upwards to the point of nearly being mind control. Look up OSDD-2 in the DSM-V. Look up just about any cult survivors testimonies and hear how they talk about how they nearly became a different person within their cult, how the cult uses torture and mind altering drugs to get their initiates to commit terrible acts of violence to each other. Now imagine if that same stuff were happening to a child whose mind is significantly easier to mold and change. Even if the child RAMCOA survivor does not develop DID, it can cause extreme conditioned responses in which the child (or now grown adult or teen) will still do the responses even now because as a child they were threatened with torture or death if they didn’t do it.
Mind control is essentially an extreme form of conditioning, and with the plethoras of research on DID and how it functions, it’s not even a difficult concept to grasp that a cult member might learn how to split new alters in a child via torture and then manipulate those alters to do what they want individually. Anyone who knows fuck all about DID knows that alters can be triggered out via positive and negative triggers. All mind control programming is, is creating a specific trigger for a specific alter and then when that child is exposed to that trigger, that alter comes out and does the task it was taught to do—usually via torture, manipulation, and threats of harm to the child or those the child loves. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp, and with how long TBMC (torture based mind control) programmers have had to perfect their work, it’s no surprise that they’ve learned how to make alters do extremely complex tasks or hold onto specific functions, always at the ready for their specific trigger.
RAMCOA research doesn’t exist in mainstream spaces because it’s nearly impossible to be taken seriously because of people who claim it doesn’t exist when it’s not even a complex topic to understand. They just don’t want to accept that it exists. The concept is terrifying, harrowing, and at some times almost absurd—and that combination makes it easier for people to put their blinders up and decide it doesn’t exist. [Edited to add: On top of this, what little research is done on it is steeped in conspiracy theories that often have roots in antisemitism. While I’ve asserted that Miller’s deprogramming books are good reads for RAMCOA survivors, she does often sound conspiratorial, and quotes Svali, a known antisemite. While I don’t think RAMCOA is exclusively related to the Illuminati stuff she often talks about, Miller’s work cannot be completely discounted because of her beliefs of where the abuse originated. Where it originates matters much less than the fact that it happens. However, not from dark, underground, secret societies—but from normal places like churches, children’s own homes (yes, RAMCOA can be done by a single parent to a single child, it just may look different than say, a trafficking ring), trafficking rings, militaristic groups, political cults, etc. I wanted to put the above put there because I know someone is going to come at me and try to say the researchers who talk about it were conspiracy theorists. Yeah, they were. Maybe they were the only ones willing to talk openly about it because of the fact they’re conspiracy theorists? I don’t know. However, I think it should also be noted that just because the researchers sucked doesn’t mean the information taken from them isn’t useful when you weed out the conspiracy stuff. For example, a LOT of modern understanding of medicine was taken from Nazi and Japanese experiments during WWII. Arguably some of the worst doctors on earth. Do we discount everything we learned because they were horrible, evil, people? No. While those who studied RAMCOA went about it in shit ways, that doesn’t discount the information learned completely. Likewise, much of modern psych understanding came from roots that included incredibly unethical experiments that would never be allowed today. Do we throw out all of that info too? No, we don’t. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t hold these people accountable, I’m saying we cannot throw out all discussion of RAMCOA because the doctors who talked about it were shitty people.]
I wish I could decide it doesn’t exist. I have permanent scarring that proves what happened did happen. I have doctor’s visits that prove I am disabled because of the traumas I went through. I have a DID specialist who didn’t even know programming to our extent even existed before our parts started telling her what they went through and she heard it from our own mouth. She had to learn how to deprogram us on the fly because she’d never done so before. So fuck off with your “oh, RAMCOA patients only have RAMCOA because they’ve been influenced by their therapist to believe they do” bullshit.
I relive my traumas in flashbacks and nightmares daily. There have been periods in my healing process where I couldn’t leave the house without someone with me for months. I couldn’t hold a job for nearly a year. I didn’t know any of this happened to me until I was in my 20s. I thought my memory was just bad and the only parts of my childhood I remembered were little blips of good things, usually involving my parent that was not involved with the cult or memories with friends at school or when I was hanging out with my sports teammates. Living with this stuff is hell. You think I want to live with this stuff? If I could permanently erase it all from my memory forever I would. But I can’t. I don’t have that luxury.
It happened. And I’m not the only child it happened to, both in the area of my country I live in and in areas all over my country and the world. This is not an isolated phenomenon. It is more common than anyone tends to realize (though still rarer than most DID cases, thank fuck). I was lucky to survive. I survived because they wanted me to. I saw a lot of children, teens, and adults who were not as “lucky” as I was. If you won’t respect survivors and their stories, at least respect the ones who didn’t survive. They didn’t deserve their final moments to be so full of pain. All of the children in these groups deserved to be loved and cared for and treated with softness and compassion. So do adult survivors like me and many others.
If I could end on one thing, it would be to urge the doubters to have some fucking compassion and empathy for people who have been through things they cannot even begin to understand. My past feels like a nightmare I will never be able to escape. I cannot erase it. I can only try to heal from it. So heal I will do, and in the process I will continue to speak the truth of my experience as safely as I can.
You want proof it’s real? Survivors are your proof.
WE are the proof.
[Edit: changed some wording for clarification + added a section after rereading a couple hours later]
[Edit 2: I realized I said my abuse has never been reported, I meant my RAMCOA related abuse. Want to make that clear. I reported sexual abuse done by my church to CPS and nothing came of it. CPS actually wrongfully claimed that since they had no reports existing of that church harming kids they wouldn’t pursue it since it happened so long ago, when a cursory google search of said location shows they’ve been reported multiple times and all reports were dropped. Why, I’m not sure.]
Endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid :
We've made posts on this before but we decided it might be good to make one big post to link to for when / if anyone asks again. We tried to cover everything we could in this post but we'll likely be making other posts similar to this later on.
So what are endos? Endos or endogenics are people who claim to have DID/OSDD without trauma or claim to have alters / be a system without having DID/OSDD.
Why is this bad? This is misinformation because as far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split / create alters without reason. You cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. To add onto this endos also take over our communities and steal our terms. (We'll make a post with further information on that in the future).
There is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! If not continue reading
Why can't you have DID/OSDD or alters without trauma? As far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma response. Here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:
“ They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood. By experiencing trauma in childhood, you take on different identities and behaviours to protect yourself. As you grow up these behaviours become more fully formed until it looks like you have different identities ” — rethink.org
“ Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder, is a complex psychological condition caused by many things. These include severe trauma during early childhood (usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse). It's also known as split personality disorder. ” — webMD
“ DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories. ” & “ Dissociation — a major part of DID — is a defense mechanism the body uses to reduce your awareness during overwhelming trauma ” — pysch central
“ DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood. ” & “ Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma. It can happen during a single-incident, traumatic event (e.g., an assault, a natural disaster, or a motor vehicle accident), or during ongoing trauma (e.g., wartime; chronic childhood abuse). ” — mcleanhospital.org
“ Dissociative disorders often develop as a way to deal with a catastrophic event or with long-term stress, abuse or trauma. This is particularly true if such events take place early in childhood. At this time of life, there are limitations to your ability to fully understand what’s happening. In addition, your coping mechanisms aren’t fully developed and getting support and resources depends on the presence of caring and knowledgeable adults. ” — my.clevelandclinic.org
“ There are many possible causes of dissociative disorders, including previous traumatic experience. ” & “ Switching off from reality is a normal defence mechanism that helps the person cope during a traumatic time. ” — nhs.uk
“ Dissociative identity disorder is the result of a natural way of coping with childhood trauma. Our page on the causes of dissociative disorders has more information. ” & “ Dissociation is a natural response to trauma while it's happening. But some of us may still experience dissociation long after the traumatic event has finished. Past experiences of dissociation during traumatic events may mean that you haven't processed these experiences fully. ” — mind.org (two links since they're two different pages)
“ Dissociative disorders usually start as a way to cope with shocking, distressing or painful events. The disorders most often form in children who go through long-term physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Less often, the disorders form in children who've lived in a home where they went through frightening times or they never knew what to expect. The stress of war or natural disasters also can bring on dissociative disorders. When you go through an event that's too much to handle emotionally, you may feel like you're stepping outside of yourself and seeing the event as if it's happening to another person. Mentally escaping in this way may help you get through a shocking, distressing or painful time. ” — mayoclinic.org
Most of these sources are pretty recent too, with the most recent one being made in September 2023 (webMD)
What about religious beliefs / tuplamacy? First people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tuplamacy is a closed Buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the DSM-V also says that in order to have DID; "The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system.
To add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. If you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. Believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works.
What about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. DID/OSDD forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. If you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all.
What about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. Look above for all the proof you need, DID/OSDD is only caused by trauma. Traumagenic is the only valid origin.
But I gave myself DID! / But I created my own alters! No you didn't. That isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a DID/OSDD system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;
“ DID Isn't Something You Can Give Yourself on Purpose. Having DID was not a conscious decision those of us with the disorder made when we were children. Dissociative identity disorder is not a selective disorder, meaning you cannot decide that you want to develop this brilliant coping mechanism and then you have it. ” — healthyplace
“ In any case, additional alters are usually the result of extreme stress. The mind does not like to be fractured even when an individual already has DID or OSDD-1. Many individuals cannot split unless a split is strictly necessary for their protection, functioning, or ability to remain hidden as a system. That said, there are exceptions. Some individuals may become so used to using splitting as a coping mechanism that they may split easily in response to seemingly minor stressors. ” — didresearch.org
Isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being LGBTQ? No, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being LGBTQ is an identity, it's something you are born as. Being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;
“ 'A person has a disability if: They have a physical or mental impairment, and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.' ” — gmc.org
The reason DID would be counted as a disability is that;
“ Having a dissociative disorder can affect your ability to keep a full-time job, especially one with work stresses, which can worsen your symptoms. ” — disabilitysecrets
And the DSM-V criteria literally says;
“ The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning ” — traumadissociation
But the DSM-V says that trauma isn't required! No, the DSM-V actually says CSA isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve CSA or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always CSA or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or CSA.
But this source claims endos exist / DID doesn't require trauma! Most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (We'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)
But we don't know everything about the human brain! You're right, we don't. The brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. We know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. Just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. It is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how DID/OSDD forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. And before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;
“ A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. The theory of gravitation, for instance, explains why apples fall from trees and astronauts float in space. Similarly, the theory of evolution explains why so many plants and animals—some very similar and some very different—exist on Earth now and in the past, as revealed by the fossil record. ” — amnh.org
And to add on;
“ Scientists develop theories to explain the natural world and to advance scientific knowledge. A theory is the highest level of explanation in science. Some features of scientific theories are that they: have been thoroughly tested over an extended period, provide accurate explanations and, predictions for a wide range of phenomena, are widely accepted by the scientific community, demonstrate strong experimental and observational support ” — study.com
RECOVERING PROGRAMMED PARTS
Trigger warning for discussion of RAMCOA and programming. This post will be focused on programmed parts recovering, I will mainly be speaking from my personal experience. If other survivors have more to add on, you are more than welcome to reblog this post and add your experience and advice. First, I want to preface this post by saying that everyone's experience is going to be different. No two systems are the same, the same applies to programmed systems and programmed parts. Recovery for these parts will entirely depend on what they have been programmed to do or believe. Show them kindness. Arguably the most important first step, showing kindness and acceptance to these parts is extremely important. Remember that they do not do these things out of choice, but rather out of trauma and feeling a need to do so. You do not have to condone their behaviors, and you are allowed to feel hurt by them, but you should not take this out on them. They are just as traumatized as any other part in the system. Start slow. There is no rush to recovery. Recovery is also not always linear, and setbacks do not mean you are back at square one. Try encouraging your programmed parts to take small steps outside of their programmed roles, if it is safe to do so. For example, a part who is programmed to be aggressive may be encouraged to do something calming such as going for a walk or listening to some music. Find new jobs for them. In our experience, many programmed parts struggle with the thought of not having a job or "purpose". This may not be the case for your programmed parts, but if you notice this type of thinking, try to help them find jobs that they are comfortable with that benefit the system in current life. For example, a high-ranking internal handler may have a lot of knowledge about the system and could do a good job of keeping track of information about the system in a helpful and healthy way. Help them find themselves. Having a more beneficial job and experiences outside of trauma is a good start, but often helping these parts find more of a sense of identity can help them recover as well, when it is safe for them to do so. For example, many programmed parts in our system are involuntarily assigned a title, choosing a name when they feel ready is incredibly healing for them. There is no rush to do this, and you should not try to force any part who is not ready into doing this, especially if they feel that they may be punished by other parts. Help them question things. Ideally, this should be done with the help of a therapist. Helping these parts question the things they were taught to believe can be incredibly helpful, but it must be done on their own terms, when they feel ready, and very carefully. Please do not try to force beliefs onto them, but rather give them space to question what they were taught on their own terms, when they are ready to do so. My experience. I was a high-ranking internal programmer for quite some time, and a few months ago I started making an attempt to recover. I began speaking to people both inside and outside my system who did not share my role, and because of this I was able to begin questioning some of the things that I had been taught. I am still not completely free of all of my beliefs, but when they do come up, I do my best to remind myself that those are things other people instilled into me as opposed to my own conclusions. The things that have been most helpful in my recovery have been other individuals showing me kindness and acceptance, despite my actions, and the ability to do things on my own terms, when I feel ready. If anyone has anything to add to this, or any questions, feel free to reblog or send us an ask. I will do my best to answer any questions, and I would appreciate any additions to this post, as I think sharing healing information is something that should be done more often. - Adonis
If you're going to be "transRAMCOA", I'm going to demand that you start by paying reparations to all the real survivors out there.
My therapy with a DID and RAMCOA specialist (very hard to find, btw) costs me almost $7000 a year. Let's start there, shall we? That's almost $600 a month. Just on therapy. That I am incredibly lucky to have access to. Most survivors are shit out of luck and have to try to heal without a specialist.
I've lost untold amounts (hundreds of thousands at least) in lost income opportunities because of how disabling being a survivor is. I can't work a regular full time job and will probably never be able to. I've been "working" (read: pimped out by my own parents) since I was a little kid but the skills of a child sex worker aren't exactly transferable to the normie world, y'know?
I get by with a lot of help from some understanding roommates and friends that I'm lucky, VERY lucky, to have. This is to say nothing about the *quality* of that life (not great) beyond what capitalism or money cares about, because of course I'm constantly Experiencing Symptoms. On account of all of the trauma.
I can't even go to the bathroom like a normal person because of how much the constant rape fucked everything up downstairs. There is no fixing this. I will deal with many of the medical and mental complications for the rest of my life and this is just one of them. (Does it still sound like a fun thing to roleplay?)
The first ~20 years of my life were a living hell beyond what most of you can even imagine. My life is also statistically likely to be much shorter than the average person's. What kind of price can I even put on all those lost years? I can't. But you could pay me enough to not have to work for all the years remaining to me. If you want to pay me, say.... $100k a year for the rest of my life so that I can live what little is left to me in peace, then I would be happy to consider you an honorary RAMCOA survivor. I'll even write you a nice little certificate you can frame. I'll give you regular updates on how my therapy is going, so you can (sort of, not really though, you could never understand if you haven't lived it) experience this mAgIcAL hEaLiNg jOuRneY vicariously through me.
Go on, then. You want to be us so bad? Find a REAL survivor, and pay up. Otherwise get the fuck out of my community and stay out. Surviving RAMCOA is not a fun little identity label for you to play around with, it's REAL shit that ruins the lives of REAL people every day. I live with this, EVERY day. It's not a fun little game I can stop when I get tired of playing. This is my LIFE.
So pay up, or fuck off.
Many well known ramcoa accounts say that MC is always done by two or more people. I think it can be done by one or more. Why do so many people believe it’s done by two or more?
TMBC and programming aren’t the same thing either but many see it as such.
TBMC is a type of programming. There are multiple types of programming including TBMC. so TBMC is programming but not all programming is TBMC
TBMC is torture based mind control and absolutely can be done by just one or two people. It doesnt take more than one person to torture a child. In fact *any* type of programming can be done by one person.
I think where people are getting confused is theyre thinking that only trafficking survivors can have TBMC, which isnt true. It has many different forms and there are thousands of different experiences.
Trafficking is Organized Abuse. All trafficking is Organized abuse. But not all TBMC is organized abuse. Parents are *absolutely* capable of brainwashing their children using torture. Its just not going to be as complex as a trafficking survivors.
I know many large ramcoa creators that agree with me and have educated me on this subject as well as the therapists and psychiatrists that treat RAMCOA survivors that have articles that what do you know, agree with me.
If you look at the definition of trauma based mind control and resources on the subject you will see that in the definition itself there is not a quota on the amount of abusers “necessary” to instill programming.
In this article by Ellen Lacter, there are 12 different kinds of Mind Control, in it she uses the term “abuser or cult” which therefore implies that it absolutely can be done by one person, two people, or an organized ring of people.
Question, would maladaptive daydreaming about the torture also, counties as creative expression of the trauma? Also, please stop calling us out/j
On expression of trauma in childhood through creative means
(CW/TW: Abuse, Torture, Trafficking, etc.)
I've seen lots of survivors of various kinds of abuse, particularly RAMCOA, post recently about how either one of the first signs they were abused in that way, or something they rediscovered/recalled later on, was that during childhood they often re-enacted traumatic scenarios or scenarios similar through games, or playground role-playing. Expression of trauma and abuse through creative means is very common in childhood - scientifically, it's more difficult for anyone to express their trauma through verbal means than it is through art, or etc, and this is the basis for art & play therapies commonly used with children and younger patients. It's a recognised phenomenon in psychology that there are certain markers in children's art for trauma, as it alters one's self perception to go through these experiences, especially in youth. So, in reference to RAMCOA/OEA in particular - recreating these situations in childhood games is perfectly normal, and if you feel this is an experience that resonates with you, you're not at all alone.
RAMCOA changes one's perception of what is normal, and intentionally so, and so to see a child express this through games which would ordinarily be much more domestic - like playing house, whereas a survivor might reenact a scene of torture, or an imagined trafficking ring - is a child survivor expressing a scenario which is normal for them without having to acknowledge it verbally through any means. This extends again to art, and writings, etc - if you look back on the "ordinary" parts of your childhood, and feel the trauma bleeds into those regardless, this is perfectly normal. Even if you feel that at the time you shouldn't have known about those things, or that you didn't see them with nearly the weight that they should have carried - all of this is okay. Everyone works things out at their own pace. All of us survived.
— Muse
Here are some resources on childhood trauma expression through art:
being a system is going through years and years of abuse and torment. being a system is sitting in the shower sobbing because you don’t know who or where you are. being a system is losing year-long friends because they refuse to believe you. being a system is looking the worst parts of you in the face and going “i think we can change”. being a system is holding a child version of yourself and repeating “i love you” over and over again.
being a system is hugging yourself and saying, “hey, we’re gonna be okay.”
Trans Ramcoa
I dont want to make this a habit however, when looking for terms to reclaim, I came across a post that made me recoil in disgust. @ cincinique made a post defending the not reclaimed term Trans Ramcoa and I would like to bring this to people attention so they can block the people interacting with this post and defending this term. I would like this to be perfectly clear, if you use the term Trans-Ramcoa or similar Trans-id terms, you are:
Defending Child pornography
Romanticizing Child Prostitution
Romanticizing the torture of Children
Defending Child rapists
YOU. ARE. BORDERLINE. PEDOPHILIC.
Not in a million years will these people understand what we went through as a child, all the abuse and torture we experienced at the hands of the people who were supposed to love us. To call this a kink, to say its just you being "kinky" is you getting off to the idea of child torture. You calling this a kink is you pushing people into dangerous situations were they will be abused and tortured. What you post matters. What you do matters. Do not make your legacy online supporting child rape and child torture.
Something buried years ago lies burning still beneath the snow.
Hand Knitted Crime Scene Caution Tape
Hello! I keep looking for resources on how to know if you've experienced DBMC but a lot of what I've read so far is confusing or really detailed in what drugs are used but not the aftermath effects for a person who has experienced DBMC.
We're already a C-DID system questioning HC-DID after a subsystem of alters accidentally gave us vague memories that imply DBMC. Could you maybe give insight into what a person would experience after DBMC aside from having alters that behave drugged? Thank you!
There are a few studies about this but most of them are about the drug itself. I will continue by pulling from our own experiences and nothing else.
The effects on alters depend on the substance used and for what. Some drugs aid relaxation, some worsen anxiety or pain, some are hallucinogens, and so on. Perps can use these substances in addition to torture, instead of it, or as their own application.
Narco progs are often done with something to sedate the fronter. This could be a drug made for sleep, a medication known to cause that side effect, an allergen that knocks them out after exposure. One purpose can be achieved with whatever they have on hand, and some perps are specific and educated when it comes to DBMC.
Awake progs are the opposite, some kind of stimulant effect. Progs can be mood centric, specific or broad behaviors, anything. Depending on an alter’s use, they may be kept in a substance-specific state as their baseline or be cues into it.
Betas may be constantly bubbly, lacking impulse control, unable to encode memories. Thetas may be cued into trance or out-of-body experiences. Both of these can be done primarily or entirely with substances.
Conditioning could look more like a torture-based route, with a repetitive cue and a release of dopamine upon completion. When drugs are used like torture, they may cause pain that will be stopped upon finishing the task.
The aftereffects of DBMC are different depending on what exactly was done. It can look like alters perpetually in a state, alters with barely any memory of the state, most of the possibilities for TBMCed alters.
This didn’t feel helpful to write, but idk if I can do any better. If you have a slightly different question or something else entirely, I can try again another way. Good luck y’all!
Would you be willing to explain what sigma programming is? (Sorry if you've already answered this and I just couldn't find it)
TW: IN DEPTH PROGRAMMING (SIGMA) TALK
Sigma is a bit tricky because lots of people don’t know what it actually is. This is because it’s not really talked about and it had a crude, conspiracy-esque definition when it was first coined. However, now people who have actually suffered from MC have reformed and reclaimed the term to be less conspiratorial.
Sigma is survival/tough it out programming. It trains the victims to be mindless in all senses besides how do I survive. This benefits the programmers because it not only gives trauma holders more initiative to live and keep being their victim, but it also causes the victim to not question the abuse and only think about how to get through it.
With that in mind, here are the criterion for sigma programming.
Cannot believe anything about abuse besides complete neutrality and objectivity. Only thunks about the logistics of what to do (fight, flight, freeze, etc.) with no emotions involved. Does not consider it abuse however doesn’t consider it to be beneficial.
One of the few programs that has defense of the self as well as the program. Sigma causes no opposition to the programmers abuse and therefore they might defend it. However, the victims focus is on defending themselves.
Acts out of pure flight. Freezing, fighting, and fawning is very rare in this program, as they do not-in the sigma programmed persons mind-help you survive. It is also because they do not have the mental capacity to fight or fawn. Therefore they attempt escape.
I hope this helped you in some way.
rusalki are not mermaids. stop translating the word "rusalka" as "mermaid" and stop calling rusalki "slavic mermaids". it's confusing, it's misleading, and it's simply isn't true. the association of rusalka with a western mermaid and undine began in 19th century, when russian empire poets wanted to adapt a popular western motif of a sorrowful water maid that is unrequitedly in love with a mortal man. this literature character of rusalka has nothing to do with actual rusalki folklore and cult.
rusalki are natural undead spirits that are connected to slavic ancestral worship. they don't have tails. they are not in any way connected to the sea: only lakes, ponds, and rivers. often, they're not even connected to water at all: there are forest rusalki, field rusalki, meadow rusalki, etc. they are in close relationships with their human kin: during the spring and summer, they are used in agricultural rites and are believed to help with farming and raising crops. rusalki were sacred to slavic people. the "week of the rusalki" festival, when rusalki are believed to walk on earth and visit their relatives, is celebrated to this day. to call them "slavic mermaids" is very diminutive of their actual role in slavic cultures.
Lineart by @theywhoshantbenamed
Colours by @freshwolfprofessoreggs
One of my favourite bits of media history trivia is that back in the Elizabethan period, people used to publish unauthorised copies of plays by sending someone who was good with shorthand to discretely write down all of the play's dialogue while they watched it, then reconstructing the play by combining those notes with audience interviews to recover the stage directions; in some cases, these unauthorised copies are the only record of a given play that survives to the present day. It's one of my favourites for two reasons:
It demonstrates that piracy has always lay at the heart of media preservation; and
Imagine being the 1603 equivalent of the guy with the cell phone camera in the movie theatre, furtively scribbling down notes in a little book and hoping Shakespeare himself doesn't catch you.
Do you have sources for any of the things you've been talking about lately (the different programming types, hc-did, basically all of it)? I'd really like to do some more reading on this stuff but I've found a grand total of One book and most of the rest of the stuff is social media posts with no references, or references to other social media posts :(
Our top three “sources” are usually our system, late night conversations with irl friends, and social media.
The biggest issue isn’t actually a lack of resources, but a lack of good resources. Survivors put out material before they realize they got something wrong. The clinicians that work with us are the same, and the first generation of papers were shots in the dark and fear of lies that hadn’t been exposed yet.
There’ll be a lot about a big, networked Cult, usually either the Illuminati or Luciferians. Plenty of government conspiracy theories, references to projects that sometimes do get evidence. Then there’s the regular racism and Christian lens.
If you’re looking for overviews and definitions, they got taken down here are some good websites:
https://www.ra-free.org/complexities-of-identifying-ritual-abuse - not a lot of information, lists studies and professionals
https://endritualabuse.org/full-article-index/ - lots of good articles, some really helpful, others had me cocking my head
https://www.cherylrainfield.com/articles-cult-abuse/ - more about the author than the issue, some useful links on that page
There used to be more. Two others, one about spin programming and one about colors, are still up, but a little out there. You’ll know if you see them
Some books with more details. Not good books, just books:
https://ia803208.us.archive.org/34/items/BecomingYourself.Miller/BecomingYourself.Miller.pdf - the single best thing I’ve found and I still have complaints, this version is unformatted but free
https://ia803400.us.archive.org/28/items/chainless-slaves-annotated/Chainless%20Slaves%20-%20Annotated.pdf - I didn’t like it, lots of certain language for iffy concepts, has a list of programs and alter roles
https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=89e823aedc9c69ffd8d715757c86878af27c37c9 - not a fan, also lots of funky ideas and hate-based rhetoric, has lists of programs and cues
There are lots of survivor autobiographies and outsider opinions, but I don’t have free links to those
Keep in mind that getting out of a high control group sucks ass, and most accounts (even if they claim to have healed) have the remnants of the abusive ideologies.
I still prefer hearing from other survivors what happened, and I find it easier to validate people I can easily contact. I’ll keep the webpage if I find anything I can’t just Google, but this is what I can pull right now.
It’s not great, buddy, but it’s something.
Being an autistic HC-DID system-or really any part/person that experienced torture and is autistic-is funny (in a bad way) because I’m so scared of engaging in my special interests. I’m a database for our torture and sigma+zeta programmed sidesystem which is basically I know surface level what happened but I never experienced it, I kind of just hold emotions and the idea.
Sometimes we were tortured for reading comic books and drawing. Art and writing are 2 of our then 3 then 4 and now 5 special interests. It was engaging in the “wrong ways”, as our group liked to call “sin”. Drawing was especially punished-they probably made something up about why it was worse than reading comics but it was probably because it left evidence we were at their houses.
Anyways, it’s especially painful for me to exist. Not only at I constantly anxious and panicked, I can’t do soothing activities that will help me because it’ll make things worse. But, if I don’t do the soothing activities, it also makes it worse. Stimming was also punished so I can’t do that either. I just wish we didn’t live like this.
~Fluff time~ (slight hurt/comfort, fluffiness, and this is based off of my headcanon about New York loving coloring books)
Also: Connie is Connecticut’s nickname
=======================================================================
5pm:
The meeting had been rather stressful for New York today. There was a lot of yelling and fighting and cussing and other various loud sounds that were overstimulating him and he felt like just curling up in ball and crying where he sat and covering his ears to block out everything. But then he would have had to deal with the others asking what was wrong with him and he did NOT need their pity.
Once the meeting was over, he left the meeting room as fast as he could without literally sprinting like a D1 track athlete and went to his room. Once he got there, he grabbed one of his many adult coloring books, his 96 pack of crayons (bet it has a sharpener too- those are literally the best-), his phone, and his Bluetooth headphones. York set the stuff on his bed and walked over to his closet and grabbed his cropped AC/DC hoodie the may or may not be a little big on him and literally eliminated his arms/hands. He put on the hoodie and headphones, turned on his music, grabbed his stuff, and started his way to the living room. On his way out of his room, he saw one of his fidget cubes and grabbed it with little to no hesitation before going to the living room.
He walked down the hall and looked around the lounge area of the NE floor to see how many people were there. Pennsylvania and Mass were talking in the kitchen, Jersey and Rhode Island were sitting at the kitchen island exchanging memes, and Maine was sitting on couch paying attention to the TV. Aight, he’ll be alright. York snuck past everybody and went into the corner of the living room where he usually hid when he wanted to. There, he set down his stuff, grabbed a pillow, found a good picture, and got to work.
There was something about coloring that brought some weird form of peace to his soul. He just liked the mindlessness of it and the fact that it gave him two positive things to focus on instead of many negative things, and that was: staying in the lines and listening to the music.
=======================================================================
A few hours later, at around 10pm:
Connecticut was getting ready for bed when he decided to go get a cup of water before sleeping. As he walked to the kitchen, he noticed something laying in the corner of the living room. He walked over and his heart nearly melted at the sight that lay before him.
York was curled up in a ball near fully asleep next to his coloring book on the floor. He had one arm, which was covered completely by his hoodie sleeve, wrapped around his torso and his legs pulled up to torso. His other arm/hand that wasn’t wrapped around himself had a crayon in it, and York’s phone was next to him still playing his music and his hood was covering his head as well as half his face. It was overall an adorable sight, but Connie wasn’t about to let York just sleep on the floor like that. He was also questioning how the he// York was able to sleep in that position and be comfy.
He walked over to his youngest brother and knelt down next to him. He gently shook York’s shoulder and whispered, "York..?" A few times. Slowly but surely Connie heard a slight groan, indicating that York was slightly awake now. He gently took the hood off of the younger’s head and ruffled his hair slightly, chuckling when he leaned into the touch. "C’mon ya little dork. Time for bed. You need it."
"Mm not tired…." York mumbled as though he wasn’t practically asleep right now.
"Mhm yea okay." Connie said sarcastically as he ran his hand York’s hair and gently scratched his scalp, putting the younger in pure bliss. "Yer literally falling asleep right now."
"Mm not…." protested the Empire State. "F(speaks New York) off…."
"Yes you are, don’t bother tryin’ to get out of this." Said the Constitution State. He gently poked York his exposed side, making him flinch and curl up completely. This gave Connie the opportunity to pick up the taller in his arms, carry him to the couch, and lay down with York (who was practically asleep) curled up next to him. He grabbed a comforter that was on the back of the couch and gently draped it over the two of them.
York had now buried his face in his brother’s chest and was sound asleep.
Connie tilted his head slightly and planted a gentle brotherly kiss to the top of his head. "Night Yorkie…."
And he could’ve sworn he heard a near dead silent, "Welterusten (Dutch for: Good Night)." in response to his words.
A new OSDD/DID combo cheat for terror/panic attack!
- keeping the eyes open to minimize flooding and switching, looking at an object in the room that was gotten in the last calendar year to ground in the present
- heavy stuffy on the chest
- EMDR bilateral music in headphones
- alternate thumbs rubbing on stuffy
- eventually when able to move more, alternate palms rubbing slowly on stuffy's back
- repeating "of course you're scared, that makes total sense, you can be scared right now and we'll hold you" worked for today
- pat the stuffy, soothe the scared part, slow soft pats like on a baby's bum or back to gentle them
- gradually, sit up/change positions and rock and stim to release the rest of the adrenaline/energy
- eventually did a reorienting exercise to ground in the present
The terror ebbed a lot gentler and sooner than I expected! Very proud and grateful. Love having a stuffy with heavy beads in it.
Things we as a RAMCOA survivor want non-survivors to know
This is going to be emotional but this has also been a long time coming. Most of our 34 drafts on this account have been on this topic and today something happened that was just the last straw for us. If you are not a survivor sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. It's our turn now. You are privileged comparatively on this regard- whether you like it or not.
Do not silence RAMCOA survivors in favor of people with "false memories"
I have no idea why this is something that needs to be said because you would assume it would be common decency but apparently a lot of non-RAMCOA survivors seem to be completely unaware of how fucked up it is to say.
Not only has false memory syndrome been thoroughly debunked- but the only time someone has anything close is when they have a disorder that makes them prone to delusions. In which case that is a delusion. Stop blaming survivors who are working to recover and possibly save the lives of others who currently as you read this are actively being tortured, for a disorder that most people are born with and has literally nothing to do with us. Stop using "some people have delusions" as a backhanded way to harm RAMCOA survivors.
I am sick and tired of people making it clear they care far more about people with "false memories" than they do for real torture survivors.
Do not tell a RAMCOA survivor to their face you have had false memories of the torture they actively endured. It is incredibly insensitive and is a mockery of the torture they experienced.
And if one more "person" makes the claim that RAMCOA survivors talking about our experiences, the things that were done to us and others, is putting people with a disorder we didn't cause in danger- I will snap. We didn't give anyone a disorder- we didn't manifest your fucking delusions. You can work through your delusions in therapy- we have physical and mental injuries that will never fully heal from our REAL experience. It is such a disgusting and selfish thing to do. You are not allies- you are harming all survivors.
Stop telling RAMCOA survivors to never look into things
It's funny how this is often done in order to try and aid and help us, considering not having the terminology almost got us killed.
Non-ramcoa survivors telling RAMCOA survivors that talking about RAMCOA is dangerous and they should never look into it are actively harming programmed systems by triggering silence programs and making them self-destruct and get less access to aid, community, and terminology to be able to explain experiences to a medical professional and there has been little to no proof that learning about RAMCOA has ever killed a RAMCOA survivor.
People who push this idea that "it's too dangerous for you :((" and shut down all ramcoa survivors and then try to destroy our community terms like HC-DID (highly complex; this is used to described programmed systems that are polyfragmented and their complex structures) because of some idea of being a glorious savior to us- are just being incredibly selfish and insensitive. It has never been about helping us, not ever. It has been about you and people like you wanting to feel like you're oh so cool and good and special. That you "really care" about the likes of the poor weak incapable RAMCOA survivors.
We don't need to be babied. We fucking crawled out of the bowels of hell itself and have been through things that people often don't survive. Some of us have to fight programs every day- before and after knowing about our survivor status. Omega programming didn't start when we learned about RAMCOA- it first kicked off when we were nine years old. You failing to educate yourselves on the way programming functions yet insisting on speaking for us and people like us is infuriating. We are not children and even the ones that are do not fucking need you to baby them.
The only people we have ever seen proclaim talking about how "speaking on RAMCOA is bad and dangerous!!!!" are one of two groups; Non ramcoa-survivors speaking for us, and RAMCOA survivors with a program actively causing them to say this. In case you don't know much about programming, there is programs that make you try and silence both yourself and other people. This is one of the most well known types of programs. I am sorry to say this but we genuinely believe that most if not all RAMCOA survivors saying this are having a program run.
People pushing this message onto us literally triggered our silence program for so long we couldn't say much to our therapist until we learned terminology. It took that for us to be put on a disappearance watch list. This community idea could have gotten us killed. We were in literal danger because we could not manage to tell our therapist about our experiences because others had said the very same words our abusers did. "Don't tell anyone."
RAMCOA perpetrators do fucking everything they can to make sure we never speak. You are aiding abusers by contributing to our silence and you are possibly sending people to die. This is not a thing I can be lighthearted about. This is something that has made our system have alters that deeply hate and despise anyone who contributed to it with us and the same to anyone who may have done so to others.
Edit: For those who struggle to interpret this- no we never said you should randomly spur of the moment look into RAMCOA with no safety nets. That should be common sense. We also literally never said that anywhere. I don't know why people are so incapable to read what we say. We're autistic we say what we mean.
Trauma-Punk (Coining)
Concept
An aesthetic and social group/movement focused on trauma survivors of any and all kinds. You have gone through hell and back and you are allowed to be loud, angry, aggressive, and selfish. Traumapunk is for all the unsavory survivors who don’t fall into society's ideal victim mold. It’s taking back the power from times you could not before, it’s being independent and self assured, it’s saying fuck you to the system that allowed your traumas to occur, saying fuck you to the abusers you may have had. You don’t have to be quiet or docile, you can be loud and aggressive.
All trauma survivors matter, and the discrimination and biases we face on a daily basis should no longer go ignored. This is a movement for all the cluster-b disordered people, all the people with PTSD, all the people with DID/OSDD, and any other trauma induced disorders. Everyone with the “wrong” reaction to their trauma and everyone who has decided they will no longer take anyone's shit.
All trauma survivors can be a part of this, regardless of disorders or the lack thereof. Your trauma no matter how big, no matter how small, is valid.
Trauma Punk Flag
![[Image ID: The trauma-punk flag, consistent of 7 stripes which are reflected horizontally. The stripes go as follows; Dark Sienna, Rosso Corsa, Old Brick, Carousel Pink, Old Brick, Rosso Corsa, and then Dark Sienna. The flag is all tinted towards a redish color. End ID]](https://64.media.tumblr.com/bc5d13c0bf58d565a8af65d6494d07e6/6470de5d79cfe690-2c/s500x750/a92b4781609d86c03fc2e6c4a4c9bddf73307034.png)
[Image ID: The trauma-punk flag, consistent of 7 stripes which are reflected horizontally. The stripes go as follows; Dark Sienna, Rosso Corsa, Old Brick, Carousel Pink, Old Brick, Rosso Corsa, and then Dark Sienna. The flag is all tinted towards a redish color. End ID]
The flags colors all have their own meaning
Dark Sienna: All the negative feelings and emotions that comes from having experienced trauma, the feeling of being alone.
Rosso Corsa: Anger towards what happened, having to fight to survive. Not being docile.
Old Brick: Any and all people with socially unacceptable reactions to their traumas- including disorders, temperament shifts, and being untrusting of others. (Separate from anger).
Carousel Pink: Recovery and healing
This flag is free to be used and never requires any credit.
Core Beliefs
Pro/Supports
People with Personality Disorders
People with PTSD/cPTSD
Traumagenic Systems (DID/OSDD)
CDDs (Complex Dissociative Disorders)
People with lesser known disorders like RAD, ASD (acute stress disorder not autism), DSED
People with trauma based adjustment disorders
People with trauma based anxiety disorders
People with “problematic” (trauma induced) OCD themes
Anyone with trauma
Low empathy
Hyper empathy
Well researched self-dx
Sex-workers
Hypersexual survivors
Sex repulsed survivors
Trans People
Gay People
Intersex people
Xenogenders
Self-defense
Angry Survivors
Survivors who want revenge
Survivors who want to see their perps be better people
Anti-Psych/Psych-Critical
Psychology/psychiatry should be available for those in need- however there are massive issues within the field and it needs to be addressed. We personally prefer Psych-Crit, but people recognize Anti-psych more.
Anti/Against
Ableists
“Narcissistic/Histrionic/Borderline/Sociopathic” Abuse
The abuser made their choice, having a disorder will never make someone be an abuser, that abusive person CHOSE to be evil. Your anger should be at them, not fellow trauma survivors.
Trauma Comparison
All traumas are valid, some may be harder to deal with than others but we are still all survivors.
Sanists
Fakeclaimers
You never know what someone is going through it is not your place to decide if they have a disorder or not
Terfs/Swerfs/Radfems
Transphobes
Homophobes
Transmeds
Intersexists
Our DNI does not apply to this and only this post (unless you are part of one of the groups in the "against" section.)
This label is allowed to be used by trauma survivors regardless of beliefs on syscourse as we post a lot of syscourse stuff and thought this was necessary to add.
“Having DID is rare-“
Ok and being a beekeeper isn’t the most common profession ever but I sure see a lot of them when I search “beekeepers” in online spaces.
do you have any advice for trying to figure out if im a RAMCOA survivor or if im experiencing delusions? there are some alters in my system fully believe we are a RAMCOA victim and claim to have memories to support this, but the rest of us think that we are just experiencing delusions and that these memories are incorrect or exaggerated.
I want to preface this by saying most of our delusions come from excessive paranoia in our OCD. Fear we have done something, will do something, are evil, and will do more evil, all when fully unreasonable to think and not comporting with reality. However we are not by any means a fully reliable source for this. Ultimately differentiating repressed memories and delusions should be done by a professional who is knowledgeable in both fields.
First of all, do you have a history of delusions or any type of delusion-prone mental health condition in your family? If not it is more likely it is an actual memory than a delusion. If you don't have a disorder that makes you delusional/delusion-prone or easy to be convinced of false things, it is more of a possibility than it would be otherwise. Do you have an anxiety disorder that can allow for delusional paranoia? That can sometimes happen.
Second, why do you think it's a delusion. What genuinely makes you feel it is one? If you can find a reason that reason may lead to more of an answer. Sometimes you can figure out that you think its a delusion because it has no basis in reality or doesn't properly fit into whatever gaps you do have or it doesn't seem to make sense in your specific case.
Another thing to note- a lot of the time RAMCOA survivors who are systems will have an entire grouping of alters who had little to no awareness of the RAMCOA whatsoever. I myself writing this now (Dorian), am not an alter who has any connection to that trauma. I find it strange and odd- the only reason me and others in my grouping have accepted enough of it is due to articles and exposes and literally drama board blogs around the cult we grew up in, as well as more things to do with excessive gang activity in the area. I also have had to realize my role itself spawned from RAMCOA but was so niche and specific that it didn't need to have me be aware of why it was going on. (Most likely I am made out of fused fragments which is why I'm a fully fleshed out alter today with no awareness of what my main role has been for- or perhaps my role was able to cover other things happening organically enough that it was more common).
One other way we differentiate delusions and genuine memory for ourselves is that... if the memory explains something like an entire OCD theme, a grouping of behavior, nightmares, and specific issues that could reasonably be tied to the specific memory, we tend to be pretty sure it is genuinely a memory. Most recently these have also only come up via flashbacks that have made alters become incredibly self-destructive and distressed to a degree that has only ever happened with uncovering of horrific trauma memories before.
Again we cannot tell you anything that will be 100% accurate. This is something that is incredibly personal and should be talked over with a professional. Additionally be careful because there are some bad professionals who think ALL ramcoa is delusion because they reject the reality of of ramcoa existence blatantly. Make sure it is someone who is properly trauma informed just as much as you need them to be informed on delusions and delusional disorders to make sure they don't just fully ignore that either.
Do you have any resources for figuring out if you've experienced OA or just resources about OA in general?
Cw: mention of gangs and trafficking, neglect, sadism, torture.
We ourselves just started to realize we also experienced OA and it's been a hellish discovery to realize. It should've been obvious but in out case it was a mix of not knowing the definition and not remembering enough.
Defining Organized Abuse (OA)
taken from a previous post here
Organized abuse is abuse done by two or more people in a pre-meditated nature. The most well known forms of OA are things such as trafficking and gangs. However this can also happen in other situations. If someone has two parents who have conspired purposefully together in order to do excessive harm to a child- that can count as OA. If two or more people conspire and plan and enact abuse upon you- it is... OA regardless if it is part of some greater group or not. The abuse must be repeated (more than one incident) and sadistic/cruel- often going far enough to be considered torture. It does not need to be done in the name of any ideology and may just be done for personal gratification or sadism.
How to know if you experienced it?
This is a super personal thing and depends on what you can remember of your trauma typically. You may have signs that make it seem like you could have experienced but it's nothing that can be 100% certain. If two or more people conspired to attack or abuse you it is a form of organized abuse. There will obviously be different levels of extremity and how large of groups are involved or not, but the nature of planned and pre-meditated abuse with multiple perpetrators differs enough from experiences that happen outside of that framework that it falls enough another category. That category being OA. We sadly cannot tell you if you have experienced something or not. And sometimes it can just be a nagging suspicion for a while.
If you have knowledge that a trafficking ring was busted later on in a place you once lived or was partially busted, be willing to be open to the idea you could have been involved if you were at risk to a reasonable degree of coming into contact with them. For us it was sever neglect making us an easy target. Or if you have gang activity in the area, and seem to know a lot more about gangs than the normal person does and have massive triggers around it more so than would be expected just from being in areas that have it- chances are you might have experienced something there too. But that doesn't make it a 100% chance either. It is just something to be aware of as a possibility and if it didn't happen you may have been adjacent enough or made aware at some point then forgot of the stuff happening in your area, which is also deeply traumatic and would be good to be aware of.
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We're not in a place where we can do much in depth research into it due to our own mental state currently so we will not be providing resources or links as we do not like pushing things out without having read them first and we cannot bring ourselves to read things that can get too close to specifics we experienced.
Note: Seeing as you are not fully certain if you have experienced this or not please do be careful. Wait to look into this until you're in an emotionally stable place. Especially the resources/information as they pretty much are bound to contain triggering content. If you feel off, bad, dissociative, or triggered, close the tab maybe turn off the device and calm down and wait at least a day to go back (we'd suggest longer but I know sometimes it's hard).
Satanic Panic
I saw a post about Satanic Panic, so I felt the need to write an overview of what actually happened for those who don’t know.
What is Satanic Panic?
Satanic Panic can be viewed as either part of the Memory Wars or as an entirely separate entity. If viewed as aligned with the False Memory movement, it might be seen as proof of False Memories and a near complete lack of the existence of ritual abuse. The other takes Satanic Panic as still harmful, but removes the blame from those claiming to have experienced it.
I believe that a crucial part of enabling healing is giving survivors the benefit of the doubt. People who are speaking out about abuse might be doing so for the first time, and are particularly vulnerable to disbelief even if they have told their story before. Talking about maltreatment takes a lot of courage, especially when a stigma already exists around the topic.
Fundie Satanism
That said, the Satanic Panic was weaponized by Christian groups expecting to gain power from it. Some genuinely believed Satanic Ritual Abuse was a primary concern, others knew it was only a face for the politics.
Fundamentalist groups wanted to have the kind of attention they were no longer getting, and the instatement of mandated reporter laws and influx of unsupervised children gave them a fighting cause. They saw that child abuse was becoming popular in media, and they used it as leverage to frighten well-meaning folks into their way of thinking.
Satanic was the word for non-Christian, and Christians were quick to disown anything that hinted at rot within their own organization. Christianity was still popular, and nobody wanted to believe they could be involved with a group that caused harm. So they took any religious abuse, and some non-religious abuses, and slapped Satanic on it.
Satanic Ritual Abuse
Ritual abuse refers to maltreatment that is both standardized and associated with symbols or ideologies. At the time, many kinds of organized (involving multiple perpetrators and victims) and/or coercive (intentionally manipulative) abuse were grouped under that name. Extreme abuse was also called ritual abuse, and we still don’t have a solid definition for that one.
Given that all ritual abuse would have been considered Satanic, fundies basically screwed over anyone who was abused in this specific way. Ritual abuse as we know it now did and does happen. An abuser doesn’t have to believe in their symbolism or ideology to misuse it, and many forms of religion and other structured beliefs can be applied to hurt and intimidate people.
RAMCOA
Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, and Organized Abuse are grouped together under a metric ton of buzz words. The survivors of this collection of abuses are left with research that is out of date, chock full of misinformation, and unable to communicate with people outside of the community.
I know the words are conspiratorial. I get that the books have fear-mongering content. I need people to understand that there is no better option, and pretending bad things don’t happen doesn’t make them go away.
Government Mind Control
Mind control is manipulation with intent. Coercion. Using psychology to get your way. Implanting false memories would be mind control. Again, it doesn’t sound good because cultural contexts have evolved over time and clinical language for this kind of abuse has not. Not all mind control is abusive at all. McDonald’s using targeted ads is mind control. But also training children like dogs is mind control.
There have been government-sponsored projects on mind control. There probably still are. Governments do sketchy things like that for military advancement and because they don’t face consequences, and there was a time where government employees admitted to it. Similar to McDonald’s and their hot coffee campaign, there were some strategic moves to look better to newcomers.
The government has sponsored lots of things they don’t want to acknowledge, and people are still suffering the effects. People in poverty, black and brown communities, and so on can probably agree that government is not synonymous with benevolent.
One of the things the government did was talk to criminal organizations. I don’t know if this is news to anyone, but it was a good way to get information and resources. There were wartime experiments on drugs and interrogation, and those were mind control.
Enough survivors agree about their experiences that it doesn’t seem worthwhile to dismiss them, so until there’s better information we would do well to try to understand them. You don’t have to agree full heartedly to sit with people in their own stories.
Cult Mind Control
I would describe a cult as any group that uses unhealthy practices as a defining feature of their cultural norms. Not everyone agrees on what is or isn’t a cult, and that mostly fine. This is the definition I’m using because it makes the most sense to me in context.
Cults members are not the only ones to use or receive mind control tactics, but the post I saw mentions cults this way. The specific technique is called Trauma Based Mind Control, which is the application of psychological responses to danger and overwhelm for the purposes of an abuser.
TBMC is the primary method for what the RAMCOA survivor community calls programming. Programming is the use of cues associated with PTSD triggers to achieve a desired response in a subject. When programming is done to a small child (under age 6-12, depending on the source), a common response is Dissociative Identity Disorder.
HC-DID
Abusers create alternate self-states within one body to react to the cues given. Depending on how knowledgeable the perpetrator(s) is/are, a child might have a very structured system of alters with little control allocated to them. These systems are designed by and for abusers to create long term obedient subjects.
Not every DID system is formed this way. Most are naturally developed with the induction of trauma in a child’s life. Some organic systems have complex structures anyway, but not for anyone but themselves. These systems are polyfragmented, or C-DID systems.
The level of control and organization found within a programmed system is almost always more than those found in organic systems. In the RAMCOA community, this is called HC-DID. The key difference isn’t true complexity, but the type of prerequisites to qualify.
Highly Complex DID isn’t particularly difficult to groom in a child, but it does require intent. Cult groups, as well as other high control groups, are quite capable of figuring it out by sheer cruelty and observation.
Why Does It Matter?
Making blanket statements about what abuse is and isn’t real doesn’t actually help anyone. While people prone to worry who didn’t experience RAMCOA might feel temporarily safer, it’s likely they’ll figure out they were lied to.
People who did experience it struggle with doubt and disbelief from others, and may have been told that nobody would care. This field is still considered taboo, and there are victims of torture and adjacent who are ashamed or afraid because of the state of the larger population.
I survived RAMCOA. My family and friends survived RAMCOA. Not all of my friends survived RAMCOA. Watch yourself.
Sources and explanations on HC-DID, TBMC and RAMCOA methods + what makes an HC-DID system
HUGE TW: VERY GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS OF TBMC AND RAMCOA METHODS AND EFFECTS
Mind control methods sources (note: you need to make a free account to access. Again; it’s free):
RA specific mind control method source:
Organized abuse sources (includes some RA sources) :
Explanation of fronting triggers and alter manipulation; has personal experience included:
If you don’t wanna read the graphic shit, skip to “summary:”
Within the context of dissociative identity disorder, these resources spell out a lot of what happens to HC-DID systems and how our system works. If you look at the methods used in cults as well as general mind control methods, one thing across the board is that it unfreezes, changes, and refreezes the ego(s). What does this mean for HC-DID? Well, due to the intense RA and OA trauma they were formed under, when parts are formed they are very disoriented. Perfect for this technique, especially since dissociation already aids in identity disturbance. This is where fronting triggers come in.
Most systems know that triggers bring parts to the front. Programmers also know this, and use it to their advantage. One way is that they utilize the above MC methods while a part is being formed/subjected to trauma. Example: Mr. John Doe is an alter that was formed in a rape, and during that the programmers chanted a long number string. Now whenever they need him out they chant the string the brain will be reminded of the rape, forcing him to front. Once they have a control over who fronts when, the programmers utilize their MC techniques. Isolation is already there, since DID of any form makes you isolated from your other parts.
Speaking of isolation, it’s very very easy once they have control of fronting since if they don’t want a part to see anything they won’t see it. That means a parts whole world can be entirely revolved around rape, c0rn (ykwim), being sold, etc. For example, Mr. John Doe fronts when a certain repeat client is raping the system. That’s the changing part.
The re-freezing part is also easy once you’ve got that stuff down. You make sure the part fronts a lot when their assigned role is needed by the programmers, making-like I said-the world revolve around their role. It’s all that they have, and to them it’s all they ever will have.
Summary: Since they are disoriented and controlled via RA/OA trauma and MC techniques at formation, it unfreezes the part. After that they can control when they front via association fronting triggers, and make them believe the world revolves around their assigned role. This is the changing of the part. After that, they make sure the parts world revolves around their assigned role and only that role-refreezing.
That’s pretty much it for this post. It doesn’t cover all of programming but that’s the gist on how it works. Thank you sm for reading, hope you have a great day. Bye
@crowsquackity since I promised I’d mention y’all