Latest Posts by over-by-the-fishtank - Page 2

Some Roles within DID/OSDD Systems:

Protectors:

Protectors are alters who assume the responsibility of safeguarding the system from harm, both internally and externally. They may manifest as fierce, assertive, or even aggressive identities, employing strategies such as vigilance, hypervigilance, or assertiveness to shield the system from perceived threats. Protectors may emerge as a response to past trauma, aiming to ensure the safety and survival of the system.

Caretakers/Nurturers:

Caretakers or nurturers within a DID/OSDD system play a pivotal role in providing emotional support, guidance, and care to other alters. They exhibit qualities of compassion, empathy, and tenderness, offering comfort and reassurance to those in need. Caretakers often act as a stabilizing force, fostering a sense of security and nurturing the well-being of the system.

Gatekeepers:

Gatekeepers possess the crucial role of managing access to memories, trauma, or specific information within the system. They act as a protective barrier, regulating the flow of information to prevent overwhelming experiences or triggering events from inundating the entire system. Gatekeepers ensure that the system maintains a balanced and manageable level of awareness regarding past experiences.

Host/Primary Identity:

The host or primary identity is the alter who assumes the role of fronting and interacting with the external world most frequently. They often serve as the primary point of contact and may possess the most comprehensive understanding of the individual's life experiences. The host identity typically manages daily responsibilities, social interactions, and the coordination of tasks within the external environment.

Executive Managers:

Executive managers are alters who possess organizational skills, problem-solving abilities, and the capacity to oversee the functioning of the system. They excel in coordinating tasks, managing schedules, and ensuring efficient communication and collaboration among alters. Executive managers often contribute to the overall stability and productivity of the system.

Child Alters:

Child alters represent younger aspects of the individual's personality. They assume childlike roles within the system, embodying innocence, vulnerability, and curiosity. Child alters may hold memories, emotions, or experiences from specific developmental stages and may require nurturing and support from other alters within the system.

Communicators:

Communicators serve as mediators, facilitating internal communication among alters within the system. They bridge gaps in awareness, mediate conflicts, and ensure that information and experiences are shared effectively. Communicators contribute to the cohesiveness and integration of the system, fostering understanding and collaboration among alters.

Helpers:

Helpers are alters who possess specialized skills, talents, or knowledge that contribute to the overall functioning of the system. They may excel in areas such as creativity, problem-solving, artistic expression, or specific domains of expertise. Helpers contribute their unique abilities to support the system and aid in individual and collective growth.

Conclusion:

Roles within DID/OSDD systems showcase the multifaceted nature of the identities that exist within an individual. Protectors, caretakers, gatekeepers, hosts, executive managers, child alters, communicators, and helpers all play vital roles in the internal dynamics, functioning, and healing of the system. Recognizing and understanding these diverse roles is crucial for fostering empathy, facilitating effective communication, and promoting integration within the individual's journey towards wholeness and well-being.

Being called a conspiracy theorist who believed in a global satanic cult trying and a person that was eradicate trans people for saying that programming exists and isn’t a myth was not in my bingo card but it sure as hell made my day a lot worse!

So friendly reminder I do NOT believe in the satanic panic nor do I believe that Silva or whoever they were and other satanic panic people are credible. When I talk about RAMCOA it is based on both research and my own experience as somebody who was viciously abused to the point it destroyed my life and prevented me from being happy ever again (:

As for the book I cited I did not know that it cited satanic panic people as a source because I don’t have the time to read an over 200 page book cover to cover. Sorry for spreading misinformation by sharing that, but it was a fucking mistake.

Always judging

Heres a reminder for you that being dissociated isn't limited to the common misconception where you are frozen in place, incapable of doing anything or even thinking, or experiencing a significant time gap,, those things.

And while its hard to spot the milder signs when you're dissociating, don't worry i got you covered by bringing awareness, im showing what those signs could look like:

Dazing/blanking out several times

Hands looking weird (depersonalization)

Surroundings also looking weird (derealization)

Feeling detached emotionally, physically, or both

Light-headedness

Less reactive in responding

Forget things more often

Unable to focus or keep concentration straight

When you have multiple of those signs at once, then chances are you are dissociating (extra note that it can also co-occur with derealization/depersonalization). While it can be caused by various factors, i would like to add that it may or may not get worse as time passes and no one wants that thing to snowball until it got too bad (remember, preventing now is better than dealing later) so having a few tips would help:

Grounding (sensory): listening to music, feeling different textures, paying attention to things in your surroundings, trying different fragrant or scents, have some snacks to occupy your senses

Grounding (physically): feel your chest as you breathe, get your body moving to redirect focus, splash some cold water, hold something you can squeeze (such as a stress ball)

Practice being mindful. As it can help you re-anchor back to reality faster, regulate better, building more resilience, increasing awareness of oneself's state

Sometimes we go do our day without giving a thought that were detached from reality, usually by going autopilot and scrolling through social medias without being aware (well, atleast for me) and forget lots of things while being dysregulated at the end. So by being aware of the mild signs and incorporating grounding skills im sure memory gaps and those funny aftermath stuffs won't be a problem anymore, have a good day peeps.

- j

Feel free to reblog for sample size & add comments in the tags.

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse.

Feel free to reblog for sample size & add comments in the tags.

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, & Organized Abuse.

Do you have any resources for RAMCOA? Resources for like...the types of programs and stuff like that. We're going through things and trying to research and pinpoint things, but finding resources has been absolute hell. If you get this twice, I'm sorry. Our tumblr is kind of shit.

Hello! I have several resources that I think may be helpful to you:

This document (LINK) of "rare programs" and their descriptions, posted by @killercatboys.

Chapters 4 and 7 of Becoming Yourself by Alison Miller (LINK) discuss programming and chapter 7 includes an anecdote with specific programs and definitions. The entire book is really a great read and is geared towards survivors of RAMCOA, just be sure to take it slow and take care of yourself.

Common Programs Observed in Survivors of Satanic Ritualistic Abuse by David W. Neswald (LINK) - massive trigger warning for suicide, self-harm, and abuse.

Spin Programming: A Newly Uncovered Technique of Systematic Mind Control by John D. Lovern (LINK) - includes symptoms, implementation, and uses of spin programs; trigger warning for abuse/torture methods.

Healing the Unimaginable by Alison Miller (LINK) is geared towards therapists and professionals and includes more in-depth information about RAMCOA than Becoming Yourself does. Again, massive trigger warning throughout the book for RAMCOA.

Kinds of Torture Endured in Ritual Abuse and Trauma-Based Mind Control by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - partial list of torture methods used in RAMCOA; trigger warning for abuse, near-death, and torture.

Mind Control: Simple to Complex by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) - describes twelve "stages" of mind control and programming, going from outward compliance to torture/trauma-based mind control; trigger warning for descriptions of abuse.

Some Indicators of Trauma-Based Mind Control Programming by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides common indicators of TBMC; most survivors of programming will have many of these indicators, but their presence does not prove the existence of TBMC and their absence does not prove that one has not experienced TBMC.

Adult and Adolescent Indicators of Ritual Trauma by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides indicators of ritual abuse in teens and adults; as with the last bullet point, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Child Indicators of Ritual Abuse Trauma in Play and Art by Ellen P. Lacter (LINK) provides potential indicators of ritualized abuse in children and pre-teens; as with the previous two bullet points, their presence does not prove ritual abuse and their absence does not disprove it.

Me& seeing your latest posts & then realizing we& have a sidesystem: o h.

Bc like, we're& not aware of a lot of the older system members that must've formed earlier in life & any system members who're usually older aren't speaking so I'm& presuming memories are being hidden from me&. I& get like. These flashes of younger child me& dissociating tf out & my& main abuser ( there were multiple perpetrators ) more or less called forth — I& suppose these were introjects fronting or at least co-fronting at the time, I& suspect that if these introjects were programmed it was because I& really liked the characters they were introjected from, I'm& not entirely sure — who'd I'd& thought formed much later in life, among other flashbacks that are just confusing to me&. So like. It's really confusing. Idk hopefully I'm& making sense.

Yeah stuff like this can be super weird to realize. I wouldn't know for sure how your own system would function but that sounds plausible. We also know a lot of other systems who have certain sections of their system have little to no communication with other sections which may also be why you don't see them as speaking- or they're just choosing not to which also happens sometimes. As long as a part was fronting at a specific enough time they may be programmed.

We also had stuff like programmed fragments fuse to be an alter and then said alter who in our case is often an introject- is programmed.

does RAMCOA always involve sexual abuse by default? We relate to some experiences of RAMCOA survivors but we don't feel sexual abuse was exactly the main focus of the abuse, in fact the sexual abuse we experienced was actually completely unrelated as far as we're away. feel free not to answer if you're not comfortable, we just can't seem to find a clear answer to this question anywhere.

100% No. CSA and SA are often a part of RAMCOA- a lot of people do experience it if they experience RAMCOA- however not a single one of the 3 types of abuse that it covers requires CSA/SA. We had this confusion ourselves for a while at first because we had no memory of CSA whatsoever- sadly we learned we were wrong on that front but even before we had learned we still were a RAMCOA survivor even without it. Hope this helps.

I did not just see an endogenic system coining terms for "programmed headmates" as in the realms of computers. You do not just say shit like that lightly. You do not understand the kind of harm that does to programmed systems like us. Please please please don't do things like this.

You are literally describing RAMCOA experiences. You are adding more harm and confusion to survivors like us. This has nothing to do with you being endogenic it has everything to do with how this is harmful to RAMCOA systems. I understand the system travel should make it clear it's not about DID- but honestly if you have actual programming something is very wrong. If you have internal programmers you are not endogenic- you are likely a RAMCOA survivor. Please please do not refuse to look into mental health aid and treatment. Please do not engage in this. It is dangerous.

Please you do not understand how desperate I am for people to listen to this- you are describing effects of mind control on systems.

I lost the posts we wanted to respond to, but I think I remember what we were gonna say

🗝️🏷️ RAMCOA with vague examples, syscourse?

Highly Complex DID

What “Complex” Means:

From what we’ve read, it seems like Complex refers to the specific disorder’s criteria. C-PTSD is PTSD with a different presentation; in this case, multiple/prolonged trauma causes difficulty tracing symptoms in the same ways as other PTSD cases. C-DID is DID with a different presentation; here it’s more intricate mechanisms that lead treatment down another path. Even CDD, which is dissociation into self-states instead of one dissociating self-state. The C just means that thing, plus some extra. There are going to be cases where a Complex patient is actually more simple to care for than a non-Complex patient — it’s just a matter of narrowing it down with more criteria.

Highly Complex:

As far as I know, there are no other communities that use Highly Complex as a label. It’s a specific word to whittle down the topic even further; C-DID but with more specifiers. For HC-DID, the specifiers are programming and structuring. Every human who experienced programming and lived is a RAMCOA survivor. Not every RAMCOA survivor considers themself a HC-DID system. Some survivors didn’t form systems at all. Others don’t think their system qualifies. Maybe people just don’t want to identify themselves this way. Even if it were a medical diagnosis — it’s not — forcing people to use labels they don’t want is rude at best.

What RAMCOA Is:

RAMCOA stands for Ritual Abuse, Mind Control, Organized Abuse. Surviving any of those is enough to belong in the community.

Ritual Abuse - maltreatment (of anyone) including ceremonies or traditions. It can be anything from religious sacrifice to underage marriage.

Mind Control - manipulation of psychological processes. I genuinely don’t know if there has to be negative intent or a specific plan from the abuser to qualify, but even targeted McDonald’s ads make use of mind control (probably not abusively, I’ve never looked into that).

Organized Abuse - maltreatment that involves multiple perpetrators collaborating in their perpetration. If two people meet at a bar and then hurt a child together, that’s enough. It can be elaborate groups like churches or criminal groups, but the only requirement is more than one perp.

It can be one or a mix of any, but it’s still RAMCOA. Usually, the DID community uses RAMCOA to talk about surviving programming (Trauma-Based Mind Control for the purpose of creating a system), and we label our systems Highly Complex.

Extra Criteria:

To be Highly Complex, survivors are usually closest to C-DID. But wait, there’s more!

HC-DID systems also receive:

Programming - I only know of TBMC being used to split off dissociative alters, but I’d budge on that if someone knew otherwise. Abusers control the child (body) by causing calculated suffering until they get the results they want. Perps split off alters with goals in mind for them, and continue to break them until they fit the desires of the abusers. This control extends to every other aspect of HC-DID, and is the reason another label exists at all.

Layers - different dimensions of innerworld. Sometimes this looks like literal other realms inside, but it could also be like floors of a building or planets or other separate worlds. Layers are often assigned a name or cue that allows outsiders to maneuver a system’s landscape from the external world. Perps don’t go in as much as they bring out, by assigned alter or other cued manipulations.

Subsystems - alters with alters, except also programmed. Cues are assigned to each subsystem alter as well, usually related to the subsystem as a collective. Just like programmed singlet alters, subsystems can be arranged by outsiders for memories, tasks, etc.

Sidesystems - kind of multiple systems within the metasystem. Groups might be contained in a separate innerworld pocket, unwilling to communicate with other alters, or otherwise unreachable in the same way other groups are. These sidesystems usually have a collective task, or function as a whole other system in the body. Details of what they do and why are also conditioned.

Programs - conditioning attached to cues. Programs might force amnesia, give body memories, set off chains of tasks, or any other typical or atypical system capability. Programs might be perceived as wires and buttons, or files, or whatever else programmers decide.

Not all HC-DID systems will have the same level of programming. Not all programmed systems will be more “complex” that other systems. Having a term to describe our unique experiences helps a lot of survivors to feel understood, especially if they’re already open about their past.

RAMCOA survivors are kept in a strange position online and irl. We’re used as examples of “unimaginable trauma” and “extreme abuse”, but are largely told to sit down and shut up; we’re too dangerous to speak up about what was done to us, too unbelievable, or too much at all. Finding help is a nightmare, sucks butt for everyone involved, and is fairly necessary for long term recovery. Like many systems, we beat the odds time and time again to call ourselves “survivors” instead of “victims”. Like many systems, we are rejected by most of society. Unlike most systems, we are a secret within system communities.

Being Complex is not being special, it’s just a haughty way to say there are extra requirements. Recovery for many systems is already a stretch. For HC-DID systems, we are healing the impossible.

TW: DISCUSSION OF PROGRAMMING, CULT MENTION (RAMCOA), AND TBMC MENTION. STAY SAFE!!!

Being polyfrag and having programmed parts is so weird. Like one example, having layers is super weird because I don’t even who know the host or co-host are. I don’t know who most of the system is, as our area only has around 22 parts (small for us). Though, I suppose it’s probably for protection as most are programmed and all but one (I think???) has nothing directly to do with any trauma.

Speaking of programming, our host is in huge denial of it!! In our journal xe’re like “yeah we have parts that literally follow a mysterious religious figure nobody has ever heard of and we have parts that are like practicing extremely loyal sex cult followers and parts for enduring TBMC as well as all the symptoms of programmed aka HC-DID but I can’t remember any of it so it must be quirkiness” like ??????? It’s almost as if you’re a supposed to be like that XD

And that’s not even mentioning how large our system is!!! We have exactly 90 logged parts, a little over 3/4s of which are fragments. I know Ellie and probably some others are also questioning if they’re a subsystem (in the alter with alters way) because of slight amnesia and slightly differing roles. And I know that the 90 known, even if nobody known is a subsystem, are not all of us.

We have times where we black out and we don’t know who fronted, but it appears to be somebody who hasn’t been logged. There have been times where we are doing one thing and all of a sudden we’re somewhere doing something we didn’t know we would do, and nobody knows who it was.

There’s so much to us, it’s like an iceberg except the parts of the iceberg don’t know the other parts, and the pieces of the iceberg above and below the surface don’t know the other exists. So strange!!!

The differences between C-DID and HC-DID

WARNING: RAMCOA AND TMBC TALK. STAY SAFE!!!

So, we see a lot of people on here are saying that HC-DID is just C-DID but with a different abuse history, which is only a very small part of makes the two different! So, we’re going to explain in this what differentiates the two, as well as what makes them similar!!!

Also, no hate to those saying they’re the same as most of not all of the time they’re just misinformed!!!

Overlap

Polyfragmented

Has subsystems

If there’s an inner world it’s complex

Smaller window for structure formation (eg. 0-5 years old instead of 0-9)

Can have a low splitting tolerance

C-DID traits not present in HC-DID

No mind control/programmed alters

this is the most important thing!!! I wouldn’t recommend looking into MC and it’s forms if you are suspecting a history of it for yourself, but there are different programs (eg. eta, beta, iota, spider in web) that create and mind control alters. We’ll get into that more in HC-DID exclusive!!!

Always has low split tolerance or group splittings

High amnesia barriers in every area

Was not intentionally created/disorder was not manipulated by abusers to serve them

HC-DID traits not present in C-DID

Programming and programmed alters.

We’re going to use an example here, so be warned. Let’s say the XYZ system has gamma and beta programming. Gamma programming is loyalty programming. When XYZ heard a certain string of numbers, a member of the ABC sidesystem (more on that later) comes out. An alter from there then goes to contact an abuser asking for sex, to which the abuser replies. The abuser then plays a song that triggers out a member of the DEF sidesystem, which is beta aka sexually programmed. The alters come out and have sex with the abuser.

Another example. Suicide and sh are discussed. The 123 system has omega programming, which is suicidal and sh programming. The host of the 123 system decides to look into RAMCOA, and a higher up/internal handler with Omega programming is alerted by a gatekeeper. The handler then orders the gatekeeper to let the 456 sidesystem take front, to which the alters take turns in mutilating the body in different ways. At the end, the host fronts and human instincts, programming and logical reasoning all decide that looking into RAMCOA is not worth it, meaning the system doesn’t find out about its history for a long time.

Sidesystems. Sidesystems are a set of programmed alters meant to carry out a specific programmed act. For example, a theta aka religiously programmed sidesystem may exist for certain rituals, in which one alter fronts for each step. These are different from subsystems because subsystems are not programmed.

Can have a high split tolerance as well as a low split tolerance

Can have low amnesia barriers in some areas with high amnesia barriers in others (layer 1 alters can remember what the others do but don’t remember anything about the layer 3 alters and their actions)

Disorder was intentionally manipulated to serve the abuser(s) whether they knew about DID as a disorder or not

And those are what we’ve got! We hope that this post was informative and helped you get a better understanding of the differences between the two structures!!! Tysm for reading, and have a good day!!!

what is hc-did?

Highly Complex Dissociative Identity Disorder (HC-DID) is a specific structure and function of DID.

HC-DID stems from C-DID, or polyfragmentation. in C-DID, you can see many fragments of alters, lack of other coping skills besides dissociation, subsystems, an active inner world and more.

C-DID comes from trauma being integrated into day to day life, becoming inescapable with no other way to cope.

HC-DID is similar to C-DID in these ways, but differs with the types of traumas that were ingrained into day to day life. HC-DID can be a result of RAMCOA/TBMC. these types of abuse purposefully change the way the system works or how the alters behave/interact with others.

HC-DID systems frequently have programmed alters or a collection of programmed alters (side system), programmed behaviors, extreme amnesiac barriers, hierarchical system structure and very rigid and complex rules and organization.

many HC-DID systems, such as myself, only find out about their programmed status through programmed alters fronting and attempting to either return to the abusers, attempt to harm the body, or other types of programming. i will not be discussing programming in depth, as it can be very triggering.

the difference between the types of systems is important. it will determine the type of therapy needed and the therapist will need to be RAMCOA/TBMC informed to avoid triggering any programmed alters.

C-DID and HC-DID are not the same thing!

Really what you’re doing is making RA systems who aren’t polyfrag less able to access your community

RAMCOA is classified as “extreme abuse” for a reason. And especially MC, which is really why the HC-DID label is a thing at all.

MC quite literally breaks a child down so the abuser can create whatever they want and make the child do whatever they want. The process that abusers use to create MC-based systems is inherently complex and will as such create an extremely complex and multifaceted system structure.

The label “HC-DID” harms no one. Nobody is being forced to use it. It is a label for a smaller group of severely traumatized people to create a community under.

1. Yes! A good chunk of our sidesystems don’t 

2. HC-DID, and I said we have a brother hi counting numbers somewhere around the 400

3. Yes we have a lot of  accents, does not mean we’re fake, we just grew in a very diverse place.

4. Yes, I’m starting to stutter because of silence programming. Please please change the topic. It will only get worse 

Questions for other systems (traumagenics only)

🚨Warning: has a question mentioning MC (no details/abuse descriptions)🚨

Do you have any alters that don’t know they’re a part of a system?

If you’re polyfragmented (both C-DID and HC-DID, or just polyfrag if you prefer), do you have a high number of alters or are you medium to low on the alter count?

What’s one thing you wished people could know about your system specifically?

For systems with MC, what’s one thing that you wished people knew about programming/MC?

I’ll make a reblog answering these questions if I feel like it, if not I’ll just let y’all answer. Not that I wouldn’t do that anyways.

I’m gonna make an exception to my DNI on the endo thing for THIS POST ONLY, so-again THIS POST ONLY and ONLY FOR THE ENDO RULE-endos and supporters can interact because I want to hear peoples opinions on this. Do not harass us!!!

DID from a RAMCOA and TBMC survivor “sysmed” systems perspective (so many adjectives)

Hi. I’m the host of an HC-DID system. We are all, as far as I’m aware, what one might call a sysmed. Why do we believe this, and what’s our perception of DID? I’ll explain my views in this post

For us, while living does not mean misery, DID means misery, if that makes any sense. I differentiate the two because my whole life does not revolve around my DID. Anyways, our entire dissociation revolves around our programming and trauma. Even my fellow parts mean misery to me, even though I don’t hate all of them since I know it’s not some of their faults. It means misery because it means more time lost and more time where our programming takes place. Even though not all parts are brainwashed, we all have some degree of programming. We also all have some degree of amnesia.

I’d say I’m in control about 35% of our life. That’s 65% of my life gone because of this disorder, and that’s only counting when I’ve been the host. Imagine when I’m not the host anymore? I’ll be nothing, pretty much.

So, that’s my view on DID; while it doesn’t taint everything, it means misery.

That’s why for me and the rest of us (again, that I know of) having a glamorized carefree “version” of that is a result of ignorance. Being endogenic is taking away everything that DID is about.

And no, if you count “sysmeds” as a struggle, sorry but that’s nowhere near comparable to the trauma people who actually are systems experience.

do not know how to word my feelings on your post, but it feels very strange to say that because your DID experiences are misery, that means DID itself is miserable, and to imply that non-DID-having bodies can't experience being a system is weird.

yes, what you went through sounds awful, and yes, DID to you would be miserable, but DID does not mean misery. it means (some level of) disorder. for people who are polyfragmented (especially through things like RAMCOA/TBMC), yes, this CAN mean a LOT of misery, but us systems who do not suffer with that same level of misery aren't less of a system because of that difference.

while you can explain your experiences as more painful in your perspective, playing trauma olympics and denying other people's own experiences is weird. it's heavily invalidating, especially as someone who would probably fall under a disordered traumagenic diagnosis, and who loves their system and who sees it as hope and not misery (as it is the light in the darkness, the company that protected me through terrible things. that is not misery for me)

(also, most endogenic systems are not claiming to have DID, not self diagnosed or professionally diagnosed. it is a different kind of plural systemhood that is not connected to having DID. so to say that being endogenic is taking away "everything that DID is about" is just... strange.)

I am not playing the trauma Olympics by saying that what I went through makes me miserable. For you to suggest acknowledging my existence as a trauma survivor is invalidating is really not good.

Also I should clarify: you can love parts and even most of your system, but you cannot deny the fact that it is born out of misery and so it is not all sunshine and rainbows. It comes with PTSD, or one of its forms.

Also, endogenic is taking away everything DID is about because the only scientifically recognized way to be a system is with either DID (or a variant like HC or C), OSDD-1, or UDD. And these, like all dissociative disorders, are trauma disorders. To me being endogenic has always meant cherry picking a glamorized version of the symptoms of these disorders, as I said in the post.

Hi, I noticed your post explaining HC-DID, and I was wondering more about sidesystems? And hoping for some help on how to label ourselves.

With us, we refer to what is basically two systems within the body as a “front system” and “back system”; The front system has had a lot of known alters, within the hundreds, but none of them had any knowledge of any RAMCOA trauma until recently when we discovered what it was, and triggered a lot of programs for ourselves. It was only after this that the back system started actually showing themselves. Their alter count is supposedly incredibly high, divided in a lot of subsystems. We’ve heard things about thousands..? However, our front system does not have thousands. But we feel like we’re equals. We feel weird calling ourselves a sidesystem just because we’re only learning of our RAMCOA trauma now. We’re the system that’s been stuck dealing with everything since then and we are just as important as all of the back system. But, can both of us just consider ourselves two systems within one body and call it a day? Or would that be strange? Any extra information you have on sidesystems and subsystems within HC-DID would also be helpful. We hope to discover other terminology that resonates with us on this subject.

Thanks for your time :)

Honestly terms are just for using at your own discretion. Even if the way you function fits a specific term- you don't have to go along with it. Our what we thought was the "main" system turned out to be what we learned was a side-system. They have decided to use this term themselves but if any of them in it don't use it they'd be allowed to with no worries- just use another term- or not use it at all.

The sidesystem in our own system has been what we were aware of first and more often. We do see our sidesystem as equal to all our programmed/RAMCOA aware (formed in it organically) subsystems. Our main grouping which we consider a sidesystem also has a lot of subsystems within it. Sometimes things can get incredibly complex.

We also eventually found out about our own RAMCOA history because of triggered programs. It was pre-looking into RAMCOA in our case and more so happened because we were digging in our childhood already because of organic alters trauma. I'm sorry you went through all of that- those kind of experiences really suck.

Again you really have no obligation to call anything a sidesystem if you don't want to. Honestly I think the terms you're using as "front and back" can be really fitting and if they work for you? No problem using just that. And honestly yeah- I think it'd be reasonable to view it as just having multiple systems in one body. Hell we sorta do view it in that way ourselves.

As for extra information. I actually kinda want to make a post going over some structures that may show up in HC-DID systems. I think having something we can link back too in the future will be useful. Unsure when that will be out but I will begin working on it today at the very least.

Reclaiming post!

hii I am going to be reclaiming the HC-DID term for programmed systems since the person that made it is an awful antisemitic conspirator.

HC-DID means "highly complex DID". It is a term for ramcoa survivors that were programmed to have DID. It exists because the experiences between a programmed system is different than those of CDID systems that aren't programmed.

HC-DID is NOT meant to be a trauma olympics term, it is just a modifier to differentiate the experiences that programmed systems have.

⚠️TW- Talks of Death⚠️

However. However while it's true an alter within headspace cannot truly die and more goes into a "slumber" aka dormancy there are actual ways alters can "die".

•An alter who was front and experienced a near death experience might turn into a ghost alter

•An alter who has been dormant for so long and their amnesia walls are so high up could be considered dead

•For our System we have a Purgatory meaning that alters who no longer wish to be within the System will go into Purgatory where memories are "erased" and essentially are declared "deceased" as they no longer take front nor do they consider themselves to be associated with main Inner World, the Side System or even Subsystems.

•Purgatory Example-

Two of our alters/headmates were once considered to be "mortal" one is an adult trauma holder and another is a Little trauma holder.

The adult holder experienced a near death experience when front and in the Inner World got pushed into Purgatory. This one alter is the only alter that managed to escape from Purgatory with memories in tact.

The other alter to essentially "die" is our Little holder. This Little became a zombie. This Little willingly placed themselves in Purgatory due to the high stress of trauma.

These are just two possible examples plus one special of how an alter within headspace could "die" however an alter dying in the Inner World and no longer being of an existence is not possible as even if they turn into an undead or ghost alter they're still within the head.

The one and only way alters can truly die, cease to exist is when the body dies. With DID alters are created by and from the brain due to trauma. When humans pass, the brain will no longer function along with the rest of the body. This is the only way and how alters can truly die

what is the difference between did, complex did, and highly complex did? where would a small system w a subsystem fall into that?

The differences are usually described as where they fall on the dissociation scale according to the Theory of Structural Dissociation (ToSD). Highly complex DID (HC-DID) does not have any medical recognition as far as I know, I believe it’s mostly a community term to bring survivors of RAMCOA programming together (please correct me if this is wrong). Distinctions in system structure between DID and complex/polyfragmented DID (C-DID or P-DID or PF-DID) have been documented, but literature on complex DID hasn’t been updated since the 1980s if I remember correctly.

Within the community, distinctions are made as follows:

DID is defined as two or more alters and amnesia between parts. This is distinguished from OSDD-1a, which does not include distinct parts, and OSDD-1b, which does not include dissociative amnesia (dissociative amnesia in DID can manifest as gaps in important life events, lapses in memory of recent events or well-learned skills such as driving, and discovery of possessions the patient does not remember owning or purchasing).

C-DID is not so much determined by alter count (as people have claimed it is) than it is determined by the actual structure and features of the system. For example: C-DID is more likely to have a complex and expansive innerworld, complex splitting patterns (splitting multiple alters at once, splitting groups, splitting a few fully formed alters and a group of fragments, etc.), and subsystems (alters with alters). It has also been said that polyfragmentation is a phenomenon that starts with normalized, everyday abuse and trauma before the age of 5.

Things we as a RAMCOA survivor want non-survivors to know

This is going to be emotional but this has also been a long time coming. Most of our 34 drafts on this account have been on this topic and today something happened that was just the last straw for us. If you are not a survivor sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. It's our turn now. You are privileged comparatively on this regard- whether you like it or not.

Do not silence RAMCOA survivors in favor of people with "false memories"

I have no idea why this is something that needs to be said because you would assume it would be common decency but apparently a lot of non-RAMCOA survivors seem to be completely unaware of how fucked up it is to say.

Not only has false memory syndrome been thoroughly debunked- but the only time someone has anything close is when they have a disorder that makes them prone to delusions. In which case that is a delusion. Stop blaming survivors who are working to recover and possibly save the lives of others who currently as you read this are actively being tortured, for a disorder that most people are born with and has literally nothing to do with us. Stop using "some people have delusions" as a backhanded way to harm RAMCOA survivors.

I am sick and tired of people making it clear they care far more about people with "false memories" than they do for real torture survivors.

Do not tell a RAMCOA survivor to their face you have had false memories of the torture they actively endured. It is incredibly insensitive and is a mockery of the torture they experienced.

And if one more "person" makes the claim that RAMCOA survivors talking about our experiences, the things that were done to us and others, is putting people with a disorder we didn't cause in danger- I will snap. We didn't give anyone a disorder- we didn't manifest your fucking delusions. You can work through your delusions in therapy- we have physical and mental injuries that will never fully heal from our REAL experience. It is such a disgusting and selfish thing to do. You are not allies- you are harming all survivors.

Stop telling RAMCOA survivors to never look into things

It's funny how this is often done in order to try and aid and help us, considering not having the terminology almost got us killed.

Non-ramcoa survivors telling RAMCOA survivors that talking about RAMCOA is dangerous and they should never look into it are actively harming programmed systems by triggering silence programs and making them self-destruct and get less access to aid, community, and terminology to be able to explain experiences to a medical professional and there has been little to no proof that learning about RAMCOA has ever killed a RAMCOA survivor.

People who push this idea that "it's too dangerous for you :((" and shut down all ramcoa survivors and then try to destroy our community terms like HC-DID (highly complex; this is used to described programmed systems that are polyfragmented and their complex structures) because of some idea of being a glorious savior to us- are just being incredibly selfish and insensitive. It has never been about helping us, not ever. It has been about you and people like you wanting to feel like you're oh so cool and good and special. That you "really care" about the likes of the poor weak incapable RAMCOA survivors.

We don't need to be babied. We fucking crawled out of the bowels of hell itself and have been through things that people often don't survive. Some of us have to fight programs every day- before and after knowing about our survivor status. Omega programming didn't start when we learned about RAMCOA- it first kicked off when we were nine years old. You failing to educate yourselves on the way programming functions yet insisting on speaking for us and people like us is infuriating. We are not children and even the ones that are do not fucking need you to baby them.

The only people we have ever seen proclaim talking about how "speaking on RAMCOA is bad and dangerous!!!!" are one of two groups; Non ramcoa-survivors speaking for us, and RAMCOA survivors with a program actively causing them to say this. In case you don't know much about programming, there is programs that make you try and silence both yourself and other people. This is one of the most well known types of programs. I am sorry to say this but we genuinely believe that most if not all RAMCOA survivors saying this are having a program run.

People pushing this message onto us literally triggered our silence program for so long we couldn't say much to our therapist until we learned terminology. It took that for us to be put on a disappearance watch list. This community idea could have gotten us killed. We were in literal danger because we could not manage to tell our therapist about our experiences because others had said the very same words our abusers did. "Don't tell anyone."

RAMCOA perpetrators do fucking everything they can to make sure we never speak. You are aiding abusers by contributing to our silence and you are possibly sending people to die. This is not a thing I can be lighthearted about. This is something that has made our system have alters that deeply hate and despise anyone who contributed to it with us and the same to anyone who may have done so to others.

Edit: For those who struggle to interpret this- no we never said you should randomly spur of the moment look into RAMCOA with no safety nets. That should be common sense. We also literally never said that anywhere. I don't know why people are so incapable to read what we say. We're autistic we say what we mean.

System Internet Safety (Resource Post)

System Internet Safety

System Internet Safety

A Quick & Dissociated Guide To: System Internet Safety

Be Careful What You Share About Your System

How To Keep Yourself Safe From Fear Mongering & Misinformation

How Social Media Can Distort & Misinform when Communicating Science

Understanding & Avoiding Armchair Psychology

Understanding & Protecting Yourself From Syscourse

System Responsibility

Tips From a Tumblr Vet (10+ Years on this Hellsite)

Tips for Kids Online

Social Media Tips for Teens

Online Abuse Resources

The Online Harassment Manual

Speak up & Stay Safe®: A Guide to Protecting Yourself From Online Harassment

How Doxers Find Your Info & How To Protect Yourself

How To Stay Safe From Doxxing With A VPN

Tip Sheet: Keeping Adults & Kids Safe on the Internet (TW: csa)

Behaviors To Watch Out For When An Adult Is With A Child (TW: csa)

How To Asses How Toxic A Group is

Warning Signs That a System is Toxic

System-related Abuse

Reporting Online Abuse

Reporting Cyberbullying

Reporting Online Child Exploitation

We are going to finally go and try to chart out / document our system / known parts for our old/current therapist and since we make a lot of organized sheets and stuff for fun I'm sharing a copy of a template for alter information ^^ Feel free to use / make a copy and use on your own and modify and all.

Its BASK + Extra stuff that we find relevant to our system

Google Docs

Copy For Others

Sheet1 Name:,TEMPLATE Picture / Description / Self Depiction,BEHAVIOR:,Important Notes: AFFECT: SENSORY: KNOWLEDGE: Role:,NOTABLE DYNAMICS

Resources!!

There are many masterlists of resources for or about plurality, but we thought we'd make one about sites and posts that have been extremely helpful to us. Some resources are about overall plurality, some about headspaces, even some about alterhumans. This is a catch-all for helpful things and will always be in progress as we find more. If you would like us to add something, please tell us!

The Plurality Hub by the Heretic System

The Alterhuman Hub by the Heretic System

Alt + H: The Alterhuman Advocacy Group by Alt + H

The Chimeras Library by House of Chimeras (liongoatsnake)

Developing Internal Communication - Starting With The Basics by Kathy Broady MSW

All the Resources You'll Need to Build Your Own Wonderland, Headspace, or Inner World by Sophie in Wonderland

Power to the Plurals by The Plural Association Nonprofit

Here for the Plural Folk

Healthy Multiplicity by LB Lee and The Zyfron System

Tulpas and Mental Health: A Study of Non-Traumagenic Plural Experiences by John Doe, Jacob J Isler

Endogenic Systems by Plural Culture

More Than One

Plurality Resource

New Alter Rundown by the Heretic System

Plural Terms by Cluster Brains in collaboration with The Trifecta Collective and the Polybius Network

Multiplicity Database Systemology

A Tulpamancy Resource Site

Quick'n'Dirty Plural History by LB Lee

System Internet Safety by Sunflower

Pluralpedia

Alternatives to "System" When Choosing A Collective Name by The Xenodelic Effect

Tips if You're Having Trouble Visualizing Your Inner World by the Orange Orchard System

Multiplicity and Plurality Wiki

List of Tulpa Guides by Vos

The Plurality Playbook by Lucia Batman and Irene Knapp

Plurality Resources by Rolal District

Endogenic Hub

The Plural Dictionary

System Sources by Cluster Brains

Resources for Faceclaims/Forms by Wild Tulip Field

DID Basics by Cleveland Clinic

Simply Plural Website (There is also an app version)

System Communication and Journaling by The Wonderland System

Developing an Inner Safe Space for Parts

Note: This post was written for people with dissociative disorders, but anyone else can use the methods here if they're helpful!

This post is all about inner safe spaces! What is an inner safe space, though? Here's what Coping with Trauma-related Dissociation says:

"Inner safe spaces are images of places where you can be safe, relaxed, and cared for. These images have been shown to be helpful to many people, not just those with dissociative disorders. This type of imaginal activity is well known to produce a feeling of relaxation and well-being in those who use it regularly. If your inner experience feels so jarring, unsafe, and frightening, as it often does in individuals with dissociative disorders, the ability to imagine these spaces becomes especially important and helpful."

Inner safe spaces can be useful for many things. You can use it to relax & alleviate anxiety. It can be a tool for soothing dissociated parts of the self, or aide in your communication with them. You or other parts can enter your inner safe space to protect yourself from feeling overwhelmed or potential triggers. Overall, creating an inner safe space can help make your mind a safer, calmer place.

So, how do you make one? All you have to do is imagine it!

Your inner safe space can be anything you want to imagine. There are no rules and it can always be changed! You can create one imaginary place for all parts of your system to share & add to. Or, each part of your system can create their own inner safe spaces to match their own needs. Some people already experience some sort of inner world, too. This can always be changed in order to make it feel safer and calmer for all parts of the system.

🌟 Ideas for inner safe spaces:

Outdoor areas like a meadow, beach, forest, mountain, etc.

Buildings like a cabin, tree house, castle, library, etc.

Vehicles like a car, pirate ship, submarine, spacecraft, etc.

Something underground, underwater, in the sky, or in space.

An entire planet or world of your own.

A fictional world that brings you comfort.

An inner safe space isn't a safe space if it doesn't make you, including all parts of you, feel safe. A good place to start is by writing down things that make you feel safe. If you don't know what makes you feel safe, try looking at what makes you feel less unsafe. It might also help to ask a loved one or therapist for help!

Invite your system to include their own needs, too. Try not to judge them even if you disagree. It's important for all parts of the system to feel safe.

🌟 Ideas for things that you can add/adjust to make your inner safe space feel more comfortable:

Add games, food, and movies that you like

Create individual rooms for each part of the system

Give yourself an inner appearance that makes you happy

Add your favorite colors, sounds, smells, & sights

Add people, characters, animals & creatures that you like

Give yourself a comfortable bed, with soft blankets & maybe even some plushies

Add pride flags!

Create a protective force field around your safe space

You or other parts may want to have a safe space that no one else can intrude upon and that's okay. It's important to respect each other's privacy. You can also adjust the inner safe space to make communication between parts easier! For example, you could add intercoms, mailboxes, telephones, or even a meeting area for aiding communication.

🌟 Having trouble visualizing, or can't visualize things at all? Try...

Drawing or painting it.

Writing about it.

Building it. You can use a video game like the Sims (get it for free!) or Minecraft.

Basing it off of a real place.

Collecting photos/videos of what you want it to be like. You can find royalty-free images on Unsplash and Pixabay. Or you create a Pinterest account!

Filling a journal, document, blog, or discord server with pictures, writing, and anything you want about your inner safe space!

Trying guided exercises for creating inner safe spaces. (IMO this is best done with a therapist's help.)

Asking your friends, therapist, or loved ones for their suggestions.

Creating a physical safe space instead of an inner one.

On writing DID characters/stories

I asked a DID friend about writing DID coded characters and stories, because myself and another wanted to make sure our representation was respectful and empathetic. That said, neither story is intentionally depicting DID, but the coding is inevitably there.

Here is their response. This is from one system, and is not the end all be all on DID. My personal recommendation would be to have a sensitivity reader if you are intentionally writing DID, but if your story has DID/multiple personality tropes and not DID specifically, the following is for you.

Are these distinct personalities? Like separate and distinct as in do they identify as separate individuals? Do they communicate? Are there amnesia barriers? Do they have separate thoughts and memories and opinions? Dissociation and fugue states can occur in other conditions. DID is a fairly specific criteria. OSDD a and b are similar but have key differences. Some systems can be as small as two so that’s not really a factor although to be honest I don’t know systems like that.

But is this character going to be like explicitly stated to have DID? If not, then they don’t need to worry about getting terms right or being believable even, it can just be “DID coded” characters. Like The Crystal Gems from Steven Universe are very DID coded to me or the whole series is. I mean Stevonnie is what it’s like being blended co/con which happens often.

It’s not DID but it’s a lot like DID and looking at the fanfic that way may alleviate some pressure. If you just wanna make sure it’s not offensive or something somehow by accident you can check with a sensitivity reader. Jekyll and Hyde is also a well worn trope, so if it's only two personalities you don't need to fret about DID representation.

And it’s just my opinion but like I feel like we have autistic coded and queer coded characters. Coding vs overt spelling certain things out happens for a variety of reasons. I think for things as complex as a condition like DID, overt means you will spend a LOT more time focusing on and explaining the condition and how it affects the character’s life and relationships, whereas keeping it coded is helpful for avoiding all of that and just using their condition more functionally.

Making them have DID flat out means you can’t use it as a simple ploy device, Which is gonna over complicate your story and characters in this instance. But if you do it right then the demographic will still see representation and take it positively and those not in the know will just take it all at face value.

For example, the whole Venom thing is very plural coded but obviously that’s coded and different being it’s a parasite and it’s not trauma based. It works as an analogue and it makes you think about parallels. it’s entirely different when you make a character like Moon Knight or Crazy Jane from Doom Patrol, because then eventually you’re getting into their system functioning, their trauma history, and the actual disorder. Then how it debilitates them as well as empowers them all becomes a huge part of their story.

Again, I myself do not have DID and I am sharing what my DID friend wrote in response to my question. If you have DID, feel free to reblog and respond to agree or disagree or add to it.

I hope this is helpful to anyone writing DID or DID-coded characters.

clones and splitting -nightmare (but pink helped at the end)

What counts as TBMC? Ex-Pentecostal wanting to know because I never really see clear and concise definitions on these things and trying to research RAMCOA gives me a lot of dodgy right wing rhetoric which I don't want to keep having to comb through for my own sanity.

TBMC is known by as two things. One: trauma based mind control. Two: torture based mind control.

Most survivors we've also ran into prefer the former because it tends to include things that are less extreme and not everyone feels their trauma went far enough to be considered torture. It's also unfortunately true that a lotta alt-righters tend to get into mind control in a more co-opting nature, which is ironic given the group that did that to us was alt-right. Honestly we find the TB to be unnecessary given mind control is always traumatic and is inherently horrific.

What counts as TBMC?

TBMC is something done primarily through abusive means to induce a dissociative state, in which one becomes more suggestible. This can be done in order to intentionally create parts/alters (when done starting on someone as a child in rare cases) or just to make someone behave the way you want them to. This is why sometimes people who are abducted by other countries as agents betray their old group and join in with their abusers. (For an extreme example). Other ways the dissociative state is achieved is through putting people into forms of trances. This can be done with meditation or mantras, forced hypnotization, and at times substances.

We've got a good mixture of both mind control and conditioning. The conditioning is done more via Pavlov's Dogs type experiences and "training" and is less tied to TBMC and typically easier to train out of. Mind control- especially in those raised with it- is driven into a part of their personality. It becomes an essential piece of the whole identity and it is not something that can be taken away without proper aid and therapy. You cannot deprogram yourself from mind control the way you can "uncondition" yourself, so to speak.

Anything that was driven into you while in a dissociative state (thus highly suggestible) or being actively traumatized that is ideological, personal, an act, behaviors, etc. is typically a form of mind control. A very common example of this is being made to be fully and completely dependent upon your leader/an authority figure. This may result in what is reminiscent of worship of the individual and in some cases leaves the victims incapable of making decisions. To this day we have to ask friends in desperation what food we should eat because the idea of deciding for ourselves is far too difficult. We roll dice connected to numbers to mark our decisions in hopes of having a way to make a choice. (And again, this is but one example.)

Some of the information we have garnered on the subject comes from a variety of sources more heavily focused upon cults as that was what we grew up in and with. We have dug deep into the information on what makes a cult a cult and what signs of specific types of cultic programming we exhibit. Even then programming can be hard to categorize and know what is meant by because it's so personal and specific in its application. I am uncertain if we are of much help- but I will say we personally see no harm in if you find spaces appropriate for it, asking if specific things you expect may be programming or signs of TBMC are able to be labeled as such. That's what we had to do to accept we were a RAMCOA survivor as we originally had less memories of the cult until given the name by our parents (to be clear we did this only because we were already in therapy and part of our recovery and work is being done in order to come out against the group and the leader, and have full legal protections as a whistle blower)