Do You Have Any Advice For How To Approach A Situation Where You Find Out That The System Is Much Bigger

Plurality Resources (incomplete)

► Basic Terminology and 101 Topics: The Plural Dictionary Google Doc The Plural Association website Plural FAQ from The Plural Association Pluralpedia More Than One website - basics and causes Whispering Flowers website - firsthand experiences General alterhuman resources Plurality categories on the LGBTA Wiki headmatesfaq on Tumblr - check the side bar for links on desktop headmatesfaq basic FAQ headmatesfaq glossary of terms The origin of “endogenic” and “traumagenic” as terms

► Plurality Origins: Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) basics Endogenic Systems Carrd - basics and terms Fictives - Multiplicity and Plurality Wiki Introjects - Mulitplicity and Plurality Wiki r/Tulpas - Reddit community Creating a tulpa A Partial History of Plural Self-Advocacy Dissociative disorders in general

► Apps and other things for organization: Simply Plural app The Plural Spectrum Tool - not an app

► Please click here for all plurality resources compiled on this blog.

Please feel free to contact me to add new resource links to this post or correct any misinformation. This post will be updated with far more information as I find it. If any of these links are from sources that are against non-traumagenic systems or non-disordered systems, contact me to have the link(s) removed. Keep in mind that I can only speak from my own experience as an OSDD-1 system with no existing tulpas or fictives. ⚡

hey there! if you dont mind me asking, what does programmed mean coming from a traumagenic system? ive only ever seen endos use that one so im curious what it means to someone who Legitimately has DID. /gen thank you! :-)

Hi, I'll answer this the best I can.

Programmed means that someone has undergone trauma programming. It's not exclusive to dissociative systems either - a singlet can also be programmed.

If you've been trauma programmed it just means that somebody has purposely used a more "organised" form of abuse to change or control you, and it leaves an imprint on who you are.

In systems this can mean having alters who behave in a way / have an identity that suits an abuser's preference, but it can also be done to singlets in small ways such as an abuser programming you to have a phobia of something.

But essentially, it's when an abuser has purposely used abuse and/or stressors to change the way you think or behave.

Honestly I don't know how an endo could claim to be trauma programmed bc that would mean they're not endogenic. To be programmed you literally have to undergo immense trauma that's how it works. But that's what it means anyway.

- Leo

Thank you for running this blog. I was held in troubled teen industry facilities for all of my teenagerhood, and am severely traumatized as a result, and it's been extremely hard to find words to describe what I went through to other systems or to trauma therapists.

It feels "too much", like there's no way this could all have happened to me, and I've been accused of lying about the organized abuse that went on there. Sometimes it feels almost like i AM lying, though I know I'm not.

Although feeling like I have "too much" trauma is something that I have to continue working on personally, I want to say thank you for pointing me in the direction of a framework that I can research and use that fits me more than any other one I've seen before.

I wish that none of us went through the horrors we went through, but I'm glad that there's a community out there and people talking about the things that have affected me. Thank you again for what you do running this blog.

Before anything else — thank you. This is an incredibly kind message and I'm really glad that you could find solace in this blog. I aim to provide resources that may not be (physically or emotionally) acessible otherwise, and highlight lesser-discussed aspects of RAMCOA.

The troubled teen industry is definitely part of the wider picture of organized abuse, and I wish it was put in that context more. Unfortunately, most discussions of RAMCOA focus on early childhood manifestations, and situations primarily focused on adolescents, adults, seniors aren't as referenced. Basically, the older the victim, the less likely it is to be included in definitions of RAMCOA; which is a shame, because those perspectives are crucial. Abusive care homes & inpatient facilities, prisons, and yes, troubled teen facilities are all forms of organized abuse in my mind, but the strong correlation with pedophile rings and cults has... Alienated? Many people from describing their experiences as OA.

I totally understand the feeling of having "too much trauma", and I feel like many survivors in general, not just ones of RAMCOA, can relate to that sentiment. "It's just too unlikely for all these things to have happened," I'll say to myself, "I must be exaggerating." Something that's helped me is the idea that some predators can smell blood in the water, and if all you know is hardship, it's hard to break out of hardship. Experiencing layers of trauma isn't... Rare, and you're not lying about it.

Once again, thank you. If you need any resources specific to the troubled teen industry, let me know. There's not a ton of research on it in the context of RAMCOA like I said, but I'm sure I'll find something of use.

Wishing you a gentle and fulfilling recovery. Aisling

Fun Trauma Things :)

Feeling betrayed when people defend or sympathize with your abuser(s)

Severe abandonment issues

Constantly questioning if you deserved the abuse

Am I actually a terrible person or am I just internalizing things my abuser(s) have said to me??

Purposefully seeking out toxic relationships to further destroy your mental health

Restoring to destructive coping mechanisms because you never learned how to self-soothe

Having a panic attack when someone raises their voice at you

Constantly reinventing yourself because you’re paranoid about turning into your abuser(s)

Never being completely certain which memories are real

Difficulty creating and maintaining close relationships due to trust issues

Tons of uncertainty regarding your religious identity

What if I’m just faking everything for attention?

Fluctuating between hating yourself and hating your abuser(s)

Hypersexuality and other forms of sexual dysfunction

Craving abuse and mistreatment and despising yourself for it

Denying yourself love and comfort because you want to suffer alone and you don’t even deserve it anyways

Picking up on the slightest change of tone in someone’s voice

Projecting the mentality of your abuser(s) onto everyone you know, because if one person who you’re close with can hurt you, so can every other person too!

Maybe I was the abuser all along? Maybe I’m just being manipulative and selfish and I’m actually a horrible abusive monster??

Minuscule, insignificant things reminding you of The Bad Memories and inducing a mental breakdown

Wishing your abuser(s) had just killed you instead of leaving you alive to suffer for the rest of your life

Dissociating for weeks on end, then suddenly having an explosive meltdown because you spilled your cereal

Feeling angry at everyone around you for never noticing the blatantly obvious symptoms of early-onset trauma

Persistent feelings of worthlessness, because if your abuser(s) don’t love you, it must mean you’re completely unlovable

Connecting the dots between traumatic memories and mental health issues you have while psychoanalyzing yourself in the shower

Inescapable suicidal thoughts at all times, always

Do you have any resources for figuring out if you've experienced OA or just resources about OA in general?

Cw: mention of gangs and trafficking, neglect, sadism, torture.

We ourselves just started to realize we also experienced OA and it's been a hellish discovery to realize. It should've been obvious but in out case it was a mix of not knowing the definition and not remembering enough.

Defining Organized Abuse (OA)

taken from a previous post here

Organized abuse is abuse done by two or more people in a pre-meditated nature. The most well known forms of OA are things such as trafficking and gangs. However this can also happen in other situations. If someone has two parents who have conspired purposefully together in order to do excessive harm to a child- that can count as OA. If two or more people conspire and plan and enact abuse upon you- it is... OA regardless if it is part of some greater group or not. The abuse must be repeated (more than one incident) and sadistic/cruel- often going far enough to be considered torture. It does not need to be done in the name of any ideology and may just be done for personal gratification or sadism.

How to know if you experienced it?

This is a super personal thing and depends on what you can remember of your trauma typically. You may have signs that make it seem like you could have experienced but it's nothing that can be 100% certain. If two or more people conspired to attack or abuse you it is a form of organized abuse. There will obviously be different levels of extremity and how large of groups are involved or not, but the nature of planned and pre-meditated abuse with multiple perpetrators differs enough from experiences that happen outside of that framework that it falls enough another category. That category being OA. We sadly cannot tell you if you have experienced something or not. And sometimes it can just be a nagging suspicion for a while.

If you have knowledge that a trafficking ring was busted later on in a place you once lived or was partially busted, be willing to be open to the idea you could have been involved if you were at risk to a reasonable degree of coming into contact with them. For us it was sever neglect making us an easy target. Or if you have gang activity in the area, and seem to know a lot more about gangs than the normal person does and have massive triggers around it more so than would be expected just from being in areas that have it- chances are you might have experienced something there too. But that doesn't make it a 100% chance either. It is just something to be aware of as a possibility and if it didn't happen you may have been adjacent enough or made aware at some point then forgot of the stuff happening in your area, which is also deeply traumatic and would be good to be aware of.

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We're not in a place where we can do much in depth research into it due to our own mental state currently so we will not be providing resources or links as we do not like pushing things out without having read them first and we cannot bring ourselves to read things that can get too close to specifics we experienced.

Note: Seeing as you are not fully certain if you have experienced this or not please do be careful. Wait to look into this until you're in an emotionally stable place. Especially the resources/information as they pretty much are bound to contain triggering content. If you feel off, bad, dissociative, or triggered, close the tab maybe turn off the device and calm down and wait at least a day to go back (we'd suggest longer but I know sometimes it's hard).

do you have any advice for trying to figure out if im a RAMCOA survivor or if im experiencing delusions? there are some alters in my system fully believe we are a RAMCOA victim and claim to have memories to support this, but the rest of us think that we are just experiencing delusions and that these memories are incorrect or exaggerated.

I want to preface this by saying most of our delusions come from excessive paranoia in our OCD. Fear we have done something, will do something, are evil, and will do more evil, all when fully unreasonable to think and not comporting with reality. However we are not by any means a fully reliable source for this. Ultimately differentiating repressed memories and delusions should be done by a professional who is knowledgeable in both fields.

First of all, do you have a history of delusions or any type of delusion-prone mental health condition in your family? If not it is more likely it is an actual memory than a delusion. If you don't have a disorder that makes you delusional/delusion-prone or easy to be convinced of false things, it is more of a possibility than it would be otherwise. Do you have an anxiety disorder that can allow for delusional paranoia? That can sometimes happen.

Second, why do you think it's a delusion. What genuinely makes you feel it is one? If you can find a reason that reason may lead to more of an answer. Sometimes you can figure out that you think its a delusion because it has no basis in reality or doesn't properly fit into whatever gaps you do have or it doesn't seem to make sense in your specific case.

Another thing to note- a lot of the time RAMCOA survivors who are systems will have an entire grouping of alters who had little to no awareness of the RAMCOA whatsoever. I myself writing this now (Dorian), am not an alter who has any connection to that trauma. I find it strange and odd- the only reason me and others in my grouping have accepted enough of it is due to articles and exposes and literally drama board blogs around the cult we grew up in, as well as more things to do with excessive gang activity in the area. I also have had to realize my role itself spawned from RAMCOA but was so niche and specific that it didn't need to have me be aware of why it was going on. (Most likely I am made out of fused fragments which is why I'm a fully fleshed out alter today with no awareness of what my main role has been for- or perhaps my role was able to cover other things happening organically enough that it was more common).

One other way we differentiate delusions and genuine memory for ourselves is that... if the memory explains something like an entire OCD theme, a grouping of behavior, nightmares, and specific issues that could reasonably be tied to the specific memory, we tend to be pretty sure it is genuinely a memory. Most recently these have also only come up via flashbacks that have made alters become incredibly self-destructive and distressed to a degree that has only ever happened with uncovering of horrific trauma memories before.

Again we cannot tell you anything that will be 100% accurate. This is something that is incredibly personal and should be talked over with a professional. Additionally be careful because there are some bad professionals who think ALL ramcoa is delusion because they reject the reality of of ramcoa existence blatantly. Make sure it is someone who is properly trauma informed just as much as you need them to be informed on delusions and delusional disorders to make sure they don't just fully ignore that either.

Endos / endogenics and why they aren't valid :

We've made posts on this before but we decided it might be good to make one big post to link to for when / if anyone asks again. We tried to cover everything we could in this post but we'll likely be making other posts similar to this later on.

So what are endos? Endos or endogenics are people who claim to have DID/OSDD without trauma or claim to have alters / be a system without having DID/OSDD.

Why is this bad? This is misinformation because as far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma based disorder (specifically caused by trauma in early childhood, which is speculated to be 1-9 / 1-12 years old) and your brain would not split / create alters without reason. You cannot have alters without having a disorder, this is common sense as it's not normal to have alters. To add onto this endos also take over our communities and steal our terms. (We'll make a post with further information on that in the future).

There is also a carrd that explains why endos are bad and debunks a few myths if anyone is interested in it! If not continue reading

Why can't you have DID/OSDD or alters without trauma? As far as science knows DID/OSDD is a trauma disorder and in order to have alters in the first place you require dissociation, which is also a trauma response. Here are tons of medically reviewed sources that say this:

“ They suggest that DID is caused by experiencing severe trauma over a long time in childhood. By experiencing trauma in childhood, you take on different identities and behaviours to protect yourself. As you grow up these behaviours become more fully formed until it looks like you have different identities ” — rethink.org

“ Dissociative identity disorder (DID), previously known as multiple personality disorder, is a complex psychological condition caused by many things. These include severe trauma during early childhood (usually extreme, repetitive physical, sexual, or emotional abuse). It's also known as split personality disorder. ” — webMD

“ DID is usually associated with adverse experiences in someone’s past and traumatic memories. ” & “ Dissociation — a major part of DID — is a defense mechanism the body uses to reduce your awareness during overwhelming trauma ” — pysch central

“ DID is associated with long-term exposure to trauma, often chronic traumatic experiences during early childhood. ” & “ Dissociation—or disconnection from one’s sense of self or environment—can be a response to trauma. It can happen during a single-incident, traumatic event (e.g., an assault, a natural disaster, or a motor vehicle accident), or during ongoing trauma (e.g., wartime; chronic childhood abuse). ” — mcleanhospital.org

“ Dissociative disorders often develop as a way to deal with a catastrophic event or with long-term stress, abuse or trauma. This is particularly true if such events take place early in childhood. At this time of life, there are limitations to your ability to fully understand what’s happening. In addition, your coping mechanisms aren’t fully developed and getting support and resources depends on the presence of caring and knowledgeable adults. ” — my.clevelandclinic.org

“ There are many possible causes of dissociative disorders, including previous traumatic experience. ” & “ Switching off from reality is a normal defence mechanism that helps the person cope during a traumatic time. ” — nhs.uk

“ Dissociative identity disorder is the result of a natural way of coping with childhood trauma. Our page on the causes of dissociative disorders has more information. ” & “ Dissociation is a natural response to trauma while it's happening. But some of us may still experience dissociation long after the traumatic event has finished. Past experiences of dissociation during traumatic events may mean that you haven't processed these experiences fully. ” — mind.org (two links since they're two different pages)

“ Dissociative disorders usually start as a way to cope with shocking, distressing or painful events. The disorders most often form in children who go through long-term physical, sexual or emotional abuse. Less often, the disorders form in children who've lived in a home where they went through frightening times or they never knew what to expect. The stress of war or natural disasters also can bring on dissociative disorders. When you go through an event that's too much to handle emotionally, you may feel like you're stepping outside of yourself and seeing the event as if it's happening to another person. Mentally escaping in this way may help you get through a shocking, distressing or painful time. ” — mayoclinic.org

Most of these sources are pretty recent too, with the most recent one being made in September 2023 (webMD)

What about religious beliefs / tuplamacy? First people are not required to believe or participate in your religious beliefs (and religious beliefs are not exempt from criticism) and second tuplamacy is a closed Buddhist practice that has nothing to do with being a system and should not be compared to being a system nor should it be included / involved in system communities. Note that the DSM-V also says that in order to have DID; "The disturbance is not a normal part of a broadly accepted cultural or religious practice." <- this does not mean it's possible to have alters due to a religious thing, if anything it says they cannot be counted as alters / as a system.

To add on, no you cannot pray to be a system or transition into being a system. If you were to pray and one day magically become a system you are either in denial or you've convinced yourself you're something you're not. Believing you can be a system without trauma or that you can become a system by praying is like believing you can get autism from vaccines or drinking too much dairy milk, that's just not how it works.

What about mixed origin systems? Mixed origin systems are not a thing. DID/OSDD forms purely from trauma, you can't form from a mix of trauma and not trauma, that's not how it works. If you identify as mixed origin you are likely in denial and really need to come to terms with the fact that you are either traumatized or you're not a system at all.

What about other kinds of origins? Other origins like "willowgenic" and all that bullshit? Yeah no, same thing as endos, not possible. Look above for all the proof you need, DID/OSDD is only caused by trauma. Traumagenic is the only valid origin.

But I gave myself DID! / But I created my own alters! No you didn't. That isn't possible, you cannot turn yourself into a DID/OSDD system and creating alters is a coping mechanism, not something you do for fun, sources on this;

“ DID Isn't Something You Can Give Yourself on Purpose. Having DID was not a conscious decision those of us with the disorder made when we were children. Dissociative identity disorder is not a selective disorder, meaning you cannot decide that you want to develop this brilliant coping mechanism and then you have it. ” — healthyplace

“ In any case, additional alters are usually the result of extreme stress. The mind does not like to be fractured even when an individual already has DID or OSDD-1. Many individuals cannot split unless a split is strictly necessary for their protection, functioning, or ability to remain hidden as a system. That said, there are exceptions. Some individuals may become so used to using splitting as a coping mechanism that they may split easily in response to seemingly minor stressors. ” — didresearch.org

Isn't being a system like the same as being trans or being LGBTQ? No, many endos compared the two but they are completely different. Being LGBTQ is an identity, it's something you are born as. Being a system is a debilitating disorder caused by severe trauma, it is counted as a disability which is;

“ 'A person has a disability if: They have a physical or mental impairment, and the impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on the person's ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.' ” — gmc.org

The reason DID would be counted as a disability is that;

“ Having a dissociative disorder can affect your ability to keep a full-time job, especially one with work stresses, which can worsen your symptoms. ” — disabilitysecrets

And the DSM-V criteria literally says;

“ The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning ” — traumadissociation

But the DSM-V says that trauma isn't required! No, the DSM-V actually says CSA isn't required, there are other forms of trauma that don't involve CSA or child abuse. To act as if it saying that the trauma isn't always CSA or child abuse means that it doesn't require trauma at all is extremely invalidating to those who are traumatized in ways that don't involve child abuse or CSA.

But this source claims endos exist / DID doesn't require trauma! Most of those sources are extremely old and / or made by endos (or pro endos) themselves. (We'll make a more in-depth post on this topic some other time, but for now this is all we have to say on it)

But we don't know everything about the human brain! You're right, we don't. The brain is mysterious, but we do know enough to know that it doesn't do these kinds of things for no reason. We know the brain reacts to trauma and we know what the difference between a normal brain and a disordered brain is. Just because we don't know everything doesn't give people an excuse to jump to conclusions and spread misinformation. It is better to stick to what science currently knows which is the theory of structural dissociation, which is the current theory about how DID/OSDD forms, and so far no one has been able to disprove it. And before someone says it, no it is not only a theory, it is a scientific theory which is;

“ A theory is a well-substantiated explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can incorporate laws, hypotheses and facts. The theory of gravitation, for instance, explains why apples fall from trees and astronauts float in space. Similarly, the theory of evolution explains why so many plants and animals—some very similar and some very different—exist on Earth now and in the past, as revealed by the fossil record. ” — amnh.org

And to add on;

“ Scientists develop theories to explain the natural world and to advance scientific knowledge. A theory is the highest level of explanation in science. Some features of scientific theories are that they: have been thoroughly tested over an extended period, provide accurate explanations and, predictions for a wide range of phenomena, are widely accepted by the scientific community, demonstrate strong experimental and observational support ” — study.com

Toxic Red Flags you do, to yourself. Aka; Self Destructive Behaviours

(FYI, I've done some of these myself. Again, I'm not perfect)

Pushing people away

Pushing your friends away

Pushing your own family away

Thinking you DON'T deserve love

Thinking you are a burden to everyone

Controlling other people; what they wear, how they talk, what friends they can have and even what relationships they have

Extremely independent; refusing help (even tho, you really need it), thinking you can do everything on your own

Keep making the same mistakes BUT NEVER learning from them

Blaming your behaviour onto someone else

Blaming your condition on your actions

Lying to therapists

Lying to your friends

Lying to your family

Having double standards

Ignoring your basic needs (i.e, brushing teeth, eating good, not taking a shower/bath once a week, brushing your hair etc)

Being a people pleaser, so you avoid conflict

You expect everyone to respect your boundaries, BUT you NEVER respect someone else's boundaries (same as, double standards)

Talking about your mental health is okay BUT it's bad when someone else is talking about theirs (same as, double standards)

Trauma dumping

Everything is a trauma, including an embarrassing story that you could laugh at years down the line (example; a haircut YOU wanted, ISN'T a trauma story).

NOT accepting consent

Blocking people with no warning (same as pushing people away)

Ignoring everyone around you

Making everyone happy BUT NEVER making yourself happy

Causing arguments

Fighting and having outbursts (this can hurt people. Emotionally and physically)

Thinking you deserve less than

Self medicated (i.e; alcohol use, taking too much medicine than what your doctor prescribed, taking drugs. Weed and CBD DOESN'T count)

Attacking the ones that you love (since you CAN'T express how you feel)

Causing drama in your friendship group

Causing drama in your family

Everything has to be evolved around you

You CAN'T say "no" (same as being a people pleaser and avoiding conflict)

Being childish and and acting in a child like manner

Keeping secrets, so you're worried of back lash

Self harm

Eating too much

Eating too little

Comfort eating

Restricting your diet

Thinking you DON'T deserve food

Thinking you DON'T deserve warmth

Thinking you DON'T deserve comfort

Locking yourself away from everyone around you

Keep putting yourself into dangerous situations

Gossiping about your friends BUT the minute your friend gossips about you, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Giving advice BUT the minute someone gives you advise, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Having a secret life that no one knows about

Keep dating abusive people and wondering where are going wrong

Having a rude tone to people BUT when someone is being rude to you, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Falling out with everyone

Having that mentality where you think you are always the victim and you NEVER did anything wrong

Thinking you are perfect in everyway (NO ONE is perfect)

Thinking you CAN'T make mistakes

Telling someone's secrets to people BUT the minute when someone tells your secret, you're annoyed (same as double standards)

Putting blame on abuse survivors, thinking it's their fault.

When you judge someone's interests or hobbies it's okay BUT when someone judges your interests and hobbies, you get annoyed (same as, double standards)

When you vent to someone that's okay BUT when someone vents to you, you get annoyed or get 'triggered' (same as double standards)

It's okay for you to be annoyed at them BUT when someone is annoyed at you it's 'triggering you' (same as double standards)

It's okay when you make jokes at other people BUT when someone does it to you, you get 'triggered' (same as double standards. Example; Will Smith's wife, she's fine joking about her bald head but when someone does it back, oh no you can't do that. Again, it's that double standard)

Kink shaming

Thinking you are smarter than they are

Ignoring a situation and thinking it will all go away

Ghosting someone

NOT acknowledging that you're NOT doing okay and pretending to be okay

Hiding your true feelings

Being a door mat for everyone

NEVER voicing voicing your opinions (same as, being a people pleaser and avoiding conflict)

You force yourself to stay quiet in different situations (same as avoiding conflict. Example; someone is being rude to you and you stay quiet and just nod)

Putting someone down because they don't have the same qualifications as you

Gaslighting someone and putting them down (that's straight up bullying)

You preach about your religion BUT when someone has a different religion to you and they preach that to you... You get annoyed (same as, double standards)

say it with me. your trauma is valid even if:

the ones who hurt you were/are traumatized individuals.

you are/appear functional.

it was not caused by a romantic partner or family member.

“it could have been avoided”.

no one knows about it.

“it’s not that bad”

other people had it worse.

someone went through the same experience and does not feel debilitated by it.

it occurred a long time ago / you feel just fine now.

the ones who hurt you have apologized.

be gentle with yourself today, folks. feel free to add.

Adhd really is like... bedroom is slightly messy it would be nice to tidy it some

bedroom is very messy I really should tidy up

bedroom is chaotic I NEED to tidy but my brain says no. Why. Whyyy.

I guess I’ll just have to watch where I step in here for the rest of my life. The mess is everywhere. I’m one with the mess.

A sudden Need to Clean™ makes you get the room looking like some fancy homes magazine cover, and you think “I’ll never ever let it get that bad again, and then...

bedroom is slightly messy (uh oh)