FFVII Remake Easter Eggs And Compilation Continuity - Part 3: ADVENT CHILDREN

tifa week | reunion | day three 🐬🥊💫

Tifa & Aerith Reunited!

Credit: @marlenadia

Thank you so much @tifa-daily​ for this wonderful event!

This is absolutely the BEST GS date analysis I've ever seen, thank you for this great post!

Interrupted by Fireworks: the illusion over darker realities

Players love the dates for many reasons: it’s the culmination of their hard work with the affection mechanic, a silly interlude after hours of tension, an opportunity to bond with their character of choice. A sweet moment in time isolated from the heavier themes of the game.

But what if I told you that Tifa and Aerith’s dates are not just cute little flashes of fan service? That both dates are part of a broader arc highlighting how the girls recognize, confront, and decide to react to the reality of Cloud’s mental issues? 

And what if I told you that “Interrupted by Fireworks” is not just the pretty Big Date song? That “Interrupted by Fireworks” serves as an important tool in threading this arc together and setting our romantic expectations stupidly high so they can be cruelly subverted later?

Well wonder no more, as that’s what we’ll be discussing today! Cut for an image-heavy, script-heavy post.

Continua a leggere

My response to someone asking me to clarify why I say Cloud can't have been in love with Aerith after only 36 hours yet he loved Tifa as a little kid when they never even interacted. Isn't that hypocritical?

This is divided into 3 parts for clarity like my original comment.

Part 2: Gonna split this reply in 2 parts for  clarity

Pt 1 Clarifying  my point on Cloud's feelings for both girls

The point I brought up is that Cloud start to fall for Aerith eventually yes (that's  why she says you  can't  fall in love with me) but  her reference was of the original game because she knows of the future.  She doesn't mean in that moment.  He has no idea what  she's talking about there but  says she  can't decide that for  him. But it's not  forever  love in the span of two days. She also  says even if he thinks he has it's not real/in his imagination.  Alluding to his identity crisis. He may think  he's in love but there's stuff going on he's  unaware of.

It's not  forever love with Tifa during the game either though not even during Highwind scene. That's the beginning of their feelings being realized. Their feelings also need time to grow and figure themselves out. But Cloud actually gets that time with Tifa because at the end of the game they confess mutual feelings and live together less than three months later. There's plenty of time for development. Unlike with Aerith there wasn't time for it to go further not  that his feelings stopped cold. He just never  time to figure them out before the guilt took over.

He did interact more than once with Tifa they used to see eachother around. They were not close. She watched  him from afar. Cloud just  never  approached but he watched her too. And 16 years old Cloud and 16 years old Tifa liking eachother is canon in Crisis Core and shown in Last Order. Again he falls for  her like  a kid would but  over  a much  longer period of time. 8 years. And these are feelings he still has. It's puppy love. Of course 8 year old isn't going to fall in love for real. It isn't forever love but  definitely a start.

As I said Cloud acts like a kid when it comes to his feelings. He doesn't comprehend them and that's  big part of his character even before his mind broke. That's why 2 days wouldn't mean forever love with Aerith when heck 8 years later he was still struggling with coming to terms  for his feelings for Tifa in Crisis Core.

He's still can't vocalize them in the present and his true self and memories are locked off that's why it's hard to explain.

He doesn't really  understand until the Highwind Scene and in Case Of Tifa and he voices it  and he's still struggling with all sorts of feelings in AC not neccessarily romantic ones. He even  struggles with his fatherly feelings towards Marlene. Heck being happy with Tifa and the children when Aerith  and Zack are dead causes guilt so bad he runs away. Feelings aren't his forte. And the trauma that he's gone through as young as age 9 when he fell off a friggin mountain and was blamed for trying to save a girl precious to him and after that losing those he held dear over and over again doesn't help.

He's a character that takes a lot of time to emotionally come to terms with things especially things like romantic love. So no what he had with Aerith is something he never figured out because he was oblivious. And he is so wrapped up in guilt in AC it probably confused him more.

It takes regular people time to really fall in love. Short term love is infatuation when we don't know someone yet. Now apply it to a character like Cloud who doesn't deal with feelings like regular people. It's unrealistic to say he loves anyone after knowing them for what is basically 36 hours during that scene.

Cloud having the mentality of a 16 year old is the present Cloud. Nomura himself says it. I posted the interview about Remake. Here it is again https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ff7-remake-interview-story-changes-cloud-jessie-wall-market

Part 2: Literally no time has passed for  Cloud between the Nibelheim incident and the events of the story. 16 year old Cloud is the present.

Zack dies in September Tifa finds Cloud between then and December. December  9  is the first bombing he meets Aerith two days later and dies weeks later Meteor fall is in January. Case of Tifa starts in March. Advent Children is 2 years later.

Biggs says it too he says Cloud and the children have so much in common.

Or do you think Cloud mentally caught up after 5 years of being in a mako coma after just a month? No, story wise in the present he's 16. Nomura even says that's why Jesse teases him. He's mentally 16 the whole time.

Cloud realizing his feelings for Tifa is what happens in the Lifestream scene of the game AFTER Aerith's death.  But he obviously is still crushing on her in Remake. The devs said when he's with  Tifa his True self  comes out so that's why.

His 21 year old self couldn't have gotten over Tifa because his last memory before joining AVALANCHE is Zack's death and his last memory that he can actually recall is finding Tifa in the reactor and thinking she's dead. That's yesterday for him. He meets Aerith a few days after waking up and seeing Tifa again.

Aerith dies less than four weeks after meeting her.

Then he finds out about his true self which IS his 16year old self.

That self has feelings for Tifa. That Cloud is literally unlocked in the Lifestream sequence and that's why the developers themselves say in more than one quote that Cloud and Tifa have held favor for eachother for many years before he calls her two the water tower a popular date spot. This was even before they spoke only once as you put it. And the devs go on to say they reveal mutual feelings beneath the Highwind then live together in Advent Children.

This is why in Case of Tifa Cloud is telling her he has her now and now he knows what that means and he always be there to remind her of herself. This is also why Tifa is asking Do You Love Me? And Nojima mentions things not going well in Case of Tifa but maybe the kids can help them work it out. He didn't  want to give opinions  on love marriage and family. Because they were going through relationship issues. Three years later they're still together.

For a timeline reference Cloud liked Tifa since he was a kid

At age 8 he goes to Mt. Nibel with her

At age 14 he calls her to water tower still likes her

At age 16 he hides from her in his mom's house because he still likes her

That scene where Cloud's mom is talking about girls? He's currently hiding from Tifa in that scene because he's ashamed of facing her because he didn't join SOLDIER.

Tifa however is looking for him and in Crisis Core she keeps asking Zack about him

Tifa had a crush on Cloud from afar too but neither of them realized their feelings

That's why they call eachother childhood friends Tifa WANTED to be closer and befriend him

And of course so did he so he rationalized it in his broken mind. Guess we were friends...

During the reactor sequence which is a few days after leaving his mom's house Sepiroth burns the town

Cloud finds Tifa thinks she's dead and it causes him to kill Sepiroth in rage

He still had it bad for Tifa in that scene Zack had pointed it out earlier

Then he's skewered and captured for experimentation right there

He doesn't wake up until 5 years later during Zack's death

Then he wanders around broken for almost 2 months and finds Tifa again.

Seeing her makes the Jenova cells activate and that's why he thinks he's a SOLDIER because she thinks he is and Scells use memories to manipulate

He forgets Zack and anything related to his true self and his true self is locked behind his memories.

His memories of Tifa are also mostly locked

So yes that's why Cloud doesn't show as much interest in Tifa during the time he is SOLDIER! Cloud as 16 year old Cloud does.

He meets Aerith slowly warms up to her as she draws him out of his shell

And eventually they grow closer

She senses his true self is in there somewhere and tells him during their date but he doesn't understand

She goes off to fight Sepiroth alone because she realizes that something is very wrong with Cloud and she doesn't want him to suffer a breakdown

But he does anyway when Sepiroth shows him the real memories he locked away then lied to him

He falls back into Mako poisoning after being in the Lifestream and his then Tifa pieces his broken mind together using their childhood memories the real ones

True Cloud is now back and for him the Nibelheim incident was yesterday and for him he's still 16 years old and his feelings for Tifa that were locked with him  return

That's why the devs talk about them realizing mutual feelings in the Highwind scene.

Case of Tifa starts

That's why things work out like they do. The song Midgar Blues allude to True Cloud's past with Tifa and refer to their feelings. the eng English official version says "left my true love behind". The devs say they held favor for eachother for many years before before even meeting at the water tower.

That's also why Nomura and Nojima say Cloud in the remake is mentally a kid trying to be an adult and why he tries to be cool and why he wants to hug Tifa during her resolution, And why Biggs tells him he has so much in common with the kids.  He wants to be adult like, but  he doesn't realize he literally lost 5 years of his life.

This would not magically change when he met  Aerith a few days later.

The entire game 1.5months after waking up again. He meets Aerith less than a week after Tifa finds him. He has literally no time to be anything other than 16 year old Cloud.

This is just going off  official  material

Next part is my summary in my own words

Part 3

Everything I have written above is what the devs themselves have said.  It's all official  statements.  Not my opinion. As for  a summary in my own words on what it all means.

Tifa is Cloud's past but  she's also his present.  The easiest way to think of it is Cloud's  true personality as another side of himself. because this story follows the Gnostic  ideas of two competing selves. Cloud's  16 year self is his current self but he is unaware.

The reason a lot of people think Tifa is the past is because they don't understand that Cloud acting as SOLDIER Cloud is the one who fell for  Aerith. And that really complicates things. 

Real Cloud was in there but  locked off in his subconscious.

Aerith saw through him but  Real Cloud doesn't actually come back until the end.

SOLDIER Cloud and Real Cloud are not the same. They're essentially two personalities seperate from eachother. But  because of JENOVA's manipulation it's also as if Cloud himself was split into  two people. When True Cloud is in the LifeStream scene he tells Tifa  "Then... this is goodbye, Tifa. Until we meet again......". When he wakes up he says  "Yeah...... Tifa...... We finally...... meet again......". Because True Cloud wasn't actually present until that moment beyond his subconscious.

He was locked away until Tifa literally Lock Heart unlocked him.

It's Nomura and Sakaguchi and Nojima and Kitase after all.

The Gnostic theme here is of two selves fighting for control and causing inner turmoil. Unless one reaches their Tifaret on the path of Sepiroth these selves will stay at war and the the self will be a false self that can't reach it's Final Heaven. This is based on ideas of enlightenment in Kabbalistic mysticism and its what the lore of FF7 is about. Gnostic themes in general are a really big part of SquareEnix games.

And if anyone  wants  a source for anything I have said here feel  free to ask. I have reciepts it would just make this post too long if I post them all at once.

The truth is a lot of us played this when we were young and a lot of stuff went over our heads but Final Fantasy VII is as complicated and mature as Xenogears and has similar lore. It was never a simple adventure and romance story, there's A LOT going on. Basically the Cloud we see in the game until the LifeStream scene is essentially a fake self and we learn the mystery of that through the narrative.

Now it's been confirmed the Remake is canon to the Compilation so it's going to be a lot clearer especially in terms of the Gnostic themes. They're bringing back their original ideas about the Thermaturge too.

responsible adults

The Unifying Theme of FFVII

So I recently got an ask that was very interesting and which I think I did a piss poor job answering. Republished here:

what is the biggest theme of FF7 that ties every character together to you? life? pro environmentalism? identity? connections?

My answer was, in a nutshell, "existentialism." It's broadly true, and was certainly an influence on the game (see: Martin Heidegger, Existentialist philosopher and known bastard) but it's a reductive and Western take overall.

So, here's the long version, and a disclaimer up-front that I'm a simple Western weeb doing internet research to the best of my ability; apologies to those who know more than me.

Square has always stated that the theme of the game is "life". This is wholly accurate, but comes off as a little twee to a Western ear. This is because "life" is a translation of the Japanese word "inochi" (命). It is a broader, more holistic concept than the English "life," with different nuances and connotations.

For a longer and much more informed read on inochi specifically, see The Concept of Life in Contemporary Japan by Masahiro Morioka. Otherwise, keep reading after the cut!

In addition to meaning life or lifespan, "inochi" also encompasses the idea of a "spirit" or vital force. It extends beyond referring to life in the general sense. Much like any one person's mind, spirit, and lived existence isn't interchangeable with anyone else's, one's "inochi" is unique and individualistic.

This concept extends beyond just human life. Animals, mountains, rivers, and trees all have "inochi" too. An illuminating quote From Aspects of Shinto in Japanese Communication by Kazuya Hara (and his primary source):

From the viewpoint of Shinto, nature itself is seen to have a spirit and life. For example, Japanese people have looked upon even a tree, a rock, or a river in nature as a figure of life. Kamata (2000) argues that the Japanese word inochi connotes the dynamic motion, flow, and circulation of all the universe.

That circulation also includes the idea that "inochi" does not refer to only a single individual life, but a chain of all the lives that have gone before. It encompasses the fleeting and finite life of the individual as well as the ecosystem in which they lived, and the influence and impact which will survive them and create the next link in the chain.

You'll recognize many of these concepts as being expressed through the Lifestream, and extant in the environmentalist elements of the game. Navigating the apparent paradox of a finite and infinite "inochi" also pulls our cast in, all of whom are characters struggling with their individual existence in the context of a greater, deeply interconnected crisis.

"Inochi" is also connected to FFVII's strong themes of navigating identity and uncovering the fundamental self. The word can also be used to refer to the core or fundamental part of something, its "most essential quality." This echoes Cloud's journey to rediscover himself, and it's noteworthy that he find again within the Lifestream, the manifestation of "inochi" itself.

"Inochi" is definitely a very accurate unifying theme. We've touched on how that connects to Shinto themes, but Buddhist philosophies of life and existence are just as culturally prevalent in Japan and influential on the themes of VII in turn. So, let's talk about Buddhism, with another disclaimer that I'm not expert by any means whatsoever.

A foundational concept in Buddhism is the Three Marks of Existence: Impermanence, the non-self, and suffering. We'll mainly focus on the first two.

The first, impermanence, is as it says on the tin. According to Buddhist thought, impermanence is inherent to the natural world, and failing to recognize this will bring suffering. The bad passes along with the good, the big as well as the small. The strain of Buddhist thought through the game is part of why FFVII's original ending is so appropriate, and Aeris' death so integral to the rest of its themes.

The second is the non-self. Related to the concept of impermanence, the idea here is that there is no permanent incarnation of the self, and there is no way to separate the self as an individual from its myriad pieces and its context. From What Are The Three Marks of Existence by Dana Nourie:

When you start to see how you aren’t a solid, unchanging self, but a impermanent, dynamic person, you also loosen your clinging to thoughts, ideas, emotions, and the idea of a “real you”.

The connection to Cloud's personal journey throughout the game is obvious - an abundance of attachment to an artificial self causes him to suffer until he is able to reconcile it and let it go. Sephiroth, meanwhile, faces a similar challenge to his own identity and slips sideways into Nihilism, unable to overcome (or even admit) his own suffering.

There's a connection between Buddhist and Existentialist/Existential Nihilist thought. While Buddhism incorporates the concept of suffering as an inherent and endless facet of life until nirvana can be reached, Existentialists struggle with a post-modern feeling of dread or anxiety fundamental to living in a meaningless and chaotic world. There's also been plenty of cultural exchange between eastern and western concepts here - Heidegger is one notable participant.

Another is Keiji Nishitani from the influential Kyoto University of Philosophy. Engaging with western Existentialist thinkers, he wrote Religion and Nothingness on the connection between the concept of the non-self and the western philosophy of Nihilism. He compared the similarities between the two, while ultimately refuting Nietzche's perspective. This quote (helpfully, from his Wikipedia page) seems particularly instructive, especially in returning back to some of the initial concepts expressed by "inochi":

"All things that are in the world are linked together, one way or the other. Not a single thing comes into being without some relationship to every other thing."

My original answer to this question was Existentialism because there simply isn't a word or a tidy concept in my vocabulary that can convey all of this disparate information. Existentialism seemed to me like the most familiar and broad concept to encompass these themes, always in the form of questions: How do we live? How do we separate subjectivity from objective truth? How do we preserve the sense that our lives are meaningful?

You must decide for yourself; you must remember your connections to other lives; you must let go.

my favorite part of sneaking into don corneos sex mansion is that tifa and aerith look like they're on their way to the grammys and cloud looks like a victorian prostitute

Aerith's ribbon: is it still a gift from Zack?

It has been rumored by some fans that the Crisis Core scene where Zack gave Aerith the pink ribbon is no more canon, because kid Aerith has a pink ribbon too.

I don't mean to sound pretentious but...they're evidently different. Kid Aerith's ribbon has four ends, adult Aerith's ribbon has just two.

Since the original FFVII kid Aerith's had two outfits. She wore the blue outfit in the first part of Elmyra's flashback and the orange one when Tseng tried to convince her to return to Shinra.

In the Remake she wears the orange outfit only in the train graveyard vision and the blue one in all of Elmyra's flashback, from the moment she found her at the station up to when Tseng showed up. It's definitely not very evident because of the sepia tone filter, but we can compare her dress to the concept art and to the orange dress: she has no ribbon on the chest but wears a pinafore dress and a light shirt with bell sleeves.

This means that in the sepia toned scene she was wearing the green ribbon, as we can see from the concept art.

The scene at the train graveyard bears many similarities with the situation described in Picturing the Past, so she was wearing the orange outfit before escaping Shinra HQ.

When Elmyra found her and brought her in Sector 5 she had the green ribbon, not the pink one.

Someone tried to say Aerith stated the ribbon was a gift from her mother when she met Cloud at the church...

Nice try, but she was talking about White Materia. (Leaving a couple of links in case anybody wanted to check: OG, Remake)

So, not only there's no evidence that the pink ribbon is no more Zack's gift but that scene influenced also an important moment of the Remake: Aerith and Cloud's first encounter.

And in both cases the gift was made in order to thank the other for their help

CC: To show you my gratitude for that "hello" that woke me up.

Remake: You know, for scaring those things away.

Ehhh...can I say what a coincidence again?

Talk about a coincidence!

(Find the previous post here)

Tiny beautiful details: little CloTi hint

Final Fantasy universes are populated by all kind of fantastic creatures and monsters, like Moogles, Chocobos, Bahamuts, etc..

Cloud has always been compared to Chocobos by fans because of his hairstyle. In the OG Tifa points out this resemblance.

In Chapter 9 of the Remake Chocobo Sam compares Tifa to a Bomb. The name of the side quest is A dynamite body so we can guess the reason of his comment.

Interestingly enough, in the OG Tifa compares Cloud to a Chocobo when the group finds the bird’s nest on the way to Mt Corel, and the “Bombs” could be fought for the first time on the bridge in Mt. Corel.

---

The following picture is Tifa’s key art for Final Fantasy VII Remake. She is wearing her default weapon, the Leather Gloves. Their description is: Well-worn leather gloves that have seen their fair share of fights. It implies that she’s had them for a long time.

...Now let’s take a closer look at her bracelets

Do I need to add anything else?

EDIT:

Sure I do!!! In Chapter 10, when Aerith and Tifa talk about going shopping together, Aerith sais Cloud will be their pack-Chocobo!

...What a coincidence!

We'd seriously need a clear paraphrase to get over the misinterpretations about this song.

Guitar is the main instrument in both Hollow and Hollow Sky, just like Crisis Core soundtrack, especially CC Aerith's theme, The price of freedom and Why, all playing at the end of the game to narrate THAT scene. And Why has a guitar acoustic version too.

Hollow sky plays in Sector 5, an homage to Crisis Core, "sky" is the symbol of Zack and, coincidentally, the new key art of Aerith has her staring at the sky.

Funny: Aerith's final line is about the sky and Hollow starts when Zack shows up at the end.

All coincidences I guess.

Tetsuya Nomura discussing the Final Fantasy VII Remake theme song