Achilles - Blog Posts
Dionysus watching Clarisse nurse Chris back to health after he went crazy in the Labyrinth: I think I’ve seen this film before.
Chiron: And you didn’t like the ending?
Dionysus: What? No, I’m still married, aren’t I?
XXX
Dionysus watching Clarisse kill the Drakon and parade it’s skin around after it killed Silena, who ran into battle in Clarisse’s armor:
If I had a nickel for every time that girl was in a relationship that paralleled a famous Ancient Greek couple spectacularly, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it happened twice.
Hades zombie apocalypse au ive been thinking of. Achilles, depressed veteran bumps into Zagreus, a young boy that wants to find his mom.
Ahhhhhddnfjichdbsnsj
another year of greeks and gays , wishing you all a happy and healthy new years 🧡
Achilles Come Down
“I can’t stand seeing you tear yourself apart like this.” He pleaded, eyes filled with months worth of sadness, anger , confusion.
“Then don’t watch. Simple.” The other boy spoke softly, but firmly, determined on pushing everyone who cared about him, away.
“You may feel no purpose , nor a point for existence, it’s all just conjecture and gloom. There may not be meaning , so find one and seize it.” Patroclus begged , with all that was left of him, with all the love that’s grown only stronger, since the day they’ve met.
“I’m doing this. I’m gonna jump. You can’t stop me.” Achilles couldn’t bring himself to sound composed. Yelling in desperation, he prayed to the Gods that he’d drop it and go home.
“So jump, and i’m jumping.” Giving up, he took a step forward as if his other half were a ticking bomb, which in a way, he was.
“Why?” At the edge of the roof, he was in utter turmoil.
“... because there is no me without you.” Patroclus confessed.
“he is half of my soul as the poets say”
“So the twain bethought them of their dead, and wept; the one for man-slaying Hector wept sore, the while he grovelled at Achilles’ feet, but Achilles wept for his own father, and now again for Patroclus; and the sound of their moaning went up through the house.”
[translation by Augustus Taber Murray]
Achilles from those five (5) verses in the Iliad during which he was actually just chilling
Referring to sarafangirlart’s previous tags
I always saw it as obsession. Whether you hate or love or whatever didn’t really matter. Whatever you felt either drove you to madness with the want to destroy or with the craving to have their amino acids and lipids buried within your body, a part of you.
Not saying your interpretation is wrong at all! Metaphors are flexible. I just like yapping :3
It came to me in a vision
“imagine caring so much about fiction” imagine being so lame that you scoff at the timeless human practice of falling in love with art and stories
today’s social distancing mood is: achilles wrapped up in a blanket burrito
Wow, this analysis is seriously impressive girl ✨✨ You've done an incredible job diving deep into the complexities of Achilles and Patroclus's relationship, exploring it from all angles with such detail and insight. I love how you break down the different perspectives of their bond, from the historical context in ancient Greek literature to the modern perspectives that have emerged.
It's fascinating to see how words can convey different layers of meaning and affection, which Homer masterfully uses . The comparison of Achilles’s lament to the laments of other mythological figures like Apollo adds such depth to their potential romantic undertones! Yet I love how you also mention the importance of their friendship bond, because as I've said before I think platonic loves deserves to be explored in narrative as well❤️
The section on co-burial traditions adds an awesome layer to your analysis! You present a well-rounded view by considering both possibilities supported by historical evidence with the Mycenaean burial practices. This really highlights the depth of their relationship and how it might have been perceived in different cultural contexts. Plus exploring such details really pulls my inner nerd curiosity!
Your research on the evolving interpretations throughout history is also awesome! By examining different perspectives and points of view like Aeschines, Aristotle, Plato, and Xenophon you shed light on the diverse ways their relationship has been understood. It's interesting to see how translations and cultural changes have influenced these interpretations over time!
I think you described the duality of their relationship beautifully in this analysis. The idea that Homer intentionally crafted a narrative that allows for multiple interpretations is such a compelling perspective. In a way this really shows how art, and literature can be timeless and adaptable to different audiences and eras!
Thank you for writing this girl and for sharing such a thorough and thought-provoking analysis! The thought and effort you put into this really shines through, and it's a pleasure to read 💖💖
And of course this is also so inspiring for our other projects and characters! It's funny and awesome how the romantic aspect of course makes me think of Diego and Viriato, and the friendship and brotherhood are so Diego and Caleb even in all their complex aspects! ✨✨
Achilles and Patroclus: Friends Lovers or both? (An analysis based on Homeric Epics and some ancient sources)
Yet another analysis requested by my dearest friend @artsofmetamoor while we two explore the complexity of human relationships in our own projects including romantic relationships of various kinds, including homosexual and homoerotic material as well as more traditional notions of family and kinship along with the complexity of values such as companionship and friendship, which we hold in the same regard as in the above so here's one of the most discussed relationships in greek literature. Buckle up with me because it is gonna be a looooong ride!
Achilles and Patroclus are two figures of greek literature and mythology that sparked discussions and analysis from the very first time they were introoduced as characters in the homeric poems in 8th century BC and not for their heroics in Trojan War but rather the nature of their relationship. Not to mention in modern day times we also start the rather overused and kinda ridiculous joke of "Historians say" around. But there might be some truth in some concerns in regards to their relationship.
A small history of their family
Achilles and Patroclus were related by a distant ancestor, Aigina. Aigina had a son with Zeus named Aeacus who in turn got married and had Peleus, who has the father of Achilles. Patroclus comes from the same line for Aigina later marries Actor and has Menoetius with him. Menoetius marries his cousin Damocratea, also possible daughter of Zeus and had a son named Opus who in turn had Patroclus, making Patroclus and Achilles de facto first cousins by the line of Aegina
(Yes...sorry "Troy" haters out there...hahaha Patroclus really WAS Achilles's cousin! ^^; Not that it ever stopped anyone in greek mythology!)
Patroclus was ellegedly exiled from his homeland when he accidentally killed his playmate and he fled to the court of Peleus where he got adopted by him thus the two characters lived most of their childhood together. Patroclus by most accounts is quite older than Achilles so in a way he was also assigned not only as his playmate but also as his "squire" or protector in various occasions. Needless to say that of course the two of them developed a very strong bond together.
Greek Text
To be honest, every time some person who does support the theory of them being lovers is being asked on it and that person claims that "the greek text is quite simple really". Allow me to disagree though. It is not. Quite frankly if it were, it wouldn't have sparked the conversation even to ancient greeks themselves of their time!
Arguably Homer never explicitly describes them as lovers in his poems (as opposing to other figures in the text that are undoubtedly sharing sexual relationships in the Iliad such as Hera and Zeus, Paris and Helen or even, ironically Achilles with Briseis once she is returned to him). However one would be a liar if they denied certain insinuations of a romantic involvement betwen the heroes.
Φιλέω-ώ= to love < > φίλος=friend, companion (Substantive), beloved (epithet)
Quite frankly Homer as we said before he a master of words and none of his words is picked at random. And the term φίλος is no exception. The word is being explicitly used in Homer by various of characters. The term can be translated interchangably from either "friend" to "beloved" depending the context. One of the most infamous and touching moments this word is being used is at the lament of Achilles when his mother asks him to speak up on why he laments so hard:
With heavy groans, fast in feet Achilles responded to her: "Oh, my mother! The Olympians have done what they had predicted for me! But what joy remains for me, for my beloved comrade Patroclus is gone! I lost him! The one that I valued most among my other companions, equally to my own life!"
(Translation by me)
In here the concept of "φίλος" is clearly an epithet or plays the role of one since the actual word that we are looking for as a substantive is the word "ἑταῖρος" which stands for "companion" or "comrade" (a term used generally throughout the poems to indicate bonds in army or of friendship or even husband and wife at some cases). In here it clearly means "beloved" by the general text for the word "φίλος" is not used as a substantive. Other cases such as this appear in other parts of the poem even with the fullest form φίλτατος which means "the most beloved"
However it needs to be noted that the term φίλος as the essence of "friend" comes directly from this term "to love" which means someone "you are close with" someone "of your own kin" someone "dear to you". The ancient greeks do not seem to be making a distinction between love as in lovers and love as in family or relatives when using this verb and the words coming from it (one good example is Thetis referring to Achilles as "φίλον υἱὸν" which means "beloved son" and here has no romantic implications at all). The term is being used interchangably throughout Homer to speak about characters with close relations of kinship that are not linked to romantic essences at all. For example the way Menelaus adresses Odysseus as such in the Odyssey:
Oh, how strange! That has come to my house the son of a man much beloved to me; who for my sake has suffered so many ordeals!
(Translation by me)
In here Menelaus again is usingthe term φίλος but he doesn't speak out of romantic intentions at all. He speaks with the warmest words but in here it is the most intimate form of friendship and kinship and is followed by the implication of gratefulness, how he adds up how Odysseus suffered "for his sake" aka to fight the war and be lost afterwards. And before someone says "it is not the same amount of warmth" one must think again because before Menelaus speaks about how because of the agony he feels for his friend he does not eat or sleep properly and given that it has been 10 years already since the last time they saw each other that is a damn long time.
But all of them I do not grieve as much, even if I mourn for them, as much as I do for one man, because of which I both detest sleep and neglect to eat, for there is no one of the Achaeans that suffered more than what Odysseus suffered and endured
(Translation by me)
So not only Menelaus feels like Odysseus suffered the most out of them (and strictly speaking one can look at fates of other heroes like Diomedes to see they are not far behind in suffering) but that the way he constantly wonders about his well-being makes him unable to sleep or eat and that seems to be happening for years and years which shows the true depth of their friendship.
So no, strictly speaking the word "to love" is not used by the greeks to imply only romantic love and it can be used pretty intimately even if it is not referring to romance. And the difference can be perceived by the same writer as well not just some play that was written several centuries later in which, inevitably, we could talk about some alterations of meaning to the words over the course of time
However there seems to be another phrase used to express intense feelings of love which is κεχαρισμένε θυμῷ which means "dear to my heart" and in Iliad ironically that phrase is spoken by no other than Briseis herself!
Oh, Patruclus! Dearest to my wretched heart!
(Translation by me)
This interesting shout of love coming from Briseis is also interesting for it could be implying both emotions of romantic love but also of affection in general. Which is another phrase that researchers have looked upon in search for hidden meanings of romance but once again it was often used either as such or with the term "φίλος" instead to speak of relationships of family or kinship. But grieving scenes such as the one of Briseis might also be indicator of romance although not exclusively referring to that.
The Lament
Quite frankly speaking, Achilles's lament is one of the most infamous and well-known in greek literature exactly because of its explicit nature. We do see characters lament in plays before but it is not as frequent to see lament SO strong coming from a male character and so openly (see for example in the Odyssey how Odysseus tries to hide his own tears many times or how his men are wrapped up in veils in lament for their own lives and their fallen comrades' but by n large the male lament is more subtle, more silent). Achilles is different. For example when he is first told about the news of Patroclus's death the result is nothing less but the ultimate emotional collapse:
So they spoke and black mist of distress covered him: With both his hands he gathered smoky sand and he poured it over his head and disfigured his face: his nectarous chiton turned black with ashes. And he himself dropped in the dirt and stretched over his lying (here: the corpse) friend/beloved pulling out his hair in lament. The slaves given as war price to Achilles and Patroclus, released a great cry of sadness and they approached all to the sides of mourning Achilles, beating their chests with their hands, and their knees each. Also Antilochus with them was lamenting and pouring tears holding the hands of Achilles: for he was moaning with his noble heart: worried that he would cut his throat with iron (here: a knife).
(Translation by me)
There is no words to express such an intense display of pain given by Achilles from second one when he receives the news of the death of Patroclus. He immediately pours ash over his head (quite a common trope for mourning done by many characters before.) and "disfiguring his face" which means he was digging his nails down his cheeks which was again a trope of mourning in greek literature. The intensity of his lament is so great that Antilochus feels the need to hold his hands just in case he would want to comit suicide in his pain!
Ironically for most part in this lament does it mention that Achilles was making any sound at all during the process, which somehow makes it even more disturbing to think that Achilles simply drops to his knees, covers himself in ashes and scratches his cheeks while lamenting over the body of Patroclus hardly making any sound at all. It is the slave women who arrive later that release the cries that undoubtedly are within the soul of Achilles. Somehow his lament is extreme and yet no audible hint exists for most part of the text EXCEPT the final one where it says "moaning with his noble heart". It almost seems that his body does most of the talking till the women arrive and cry out like he so much wants to and then his mouth also makes sounds. It is not a scream; it is a moan. It is possible of course that the clip refers to Achilles constantly moaning but I do like this as a possible food for thought that if Achilles was firstly responding to pain with his actions and then with his voice and in a way the moment he actually made a sound was the moment Antilochus truly began to worry!
There is a certain theatricality to this scene of lament and drama which of course as many analytics before me would say, it seems to be hinting to some other infamous laments of mythological characters and more specific the laments of Apollo. Apollo is one of those figures for whom we have no doubt he was lamenting his lovers and some classical examples are Hyakinthus and Cyparissus both of them transformed into a flower and a tree respectably. The associations of Achilles and the grieving god seem to be more than just a possibility here. Which of course enforces even further the idea of them being lovers. It is also the amount of time that Achilles mourns plus the intense way that he refuses to let go of the body of Patroclus to which he seems to be holding on from the 18th rhapsody when he first finds out of his death till the moment that she arrived with his armor one rhapsody later. Quite a gruesome scene is when she enters the tent and finds Achilles crying while clasping Patroclus onto him:
And she found her dearest son still lay there, clasping Patroclus and crying woefully and his comrades around him mourning
(Translation by me)
And at this point Thetis hasn't yet given nectar and ambrosia to the body of Patroclus to prevent the sepsis from happening, which happens a few lyrics later. So Achilles was holding the dead body for the entire day even after it was cleaned and prepared showing the intense pain Achilles was expressing and going through. And he seems unwilling to part from him till Patroclus's spirit itself arrives in his sleep and requests a burial so he can rest.
Of course it needs to be noted that intense lament is not exlusive to lovers in greek mythology. To name a few Athena grieves intensely the loss of her friend Pallas and by some accounts she does take her name as her epithet post-mortem. Antigone intensely mourns her dead brother and laments his disgrace when she finds that the ritual burial she performed had been disturbed. And the acting of killing oneself out of sorrow again is not strictly remaining to the love affairs. For example Ismene killing herself after learning the deaths of her family members in general and Antigone in particular. Another most prominient example is king Aegeus who throws himself into the sea when he sees the black sails of the ship coming from Crete, thinking his son was dead.
So the exessive expression of grief are not just dedicated to lovers or husbands and wives in greek literature but rather it is expanded to all people who mourn someone dear to them regardless of the nature of the bond between them. In the case of Achilles of course he does seem to be having a specially strong mental breakdown every time some important person in his life that is said to be romantically involved with him dies or is taken from him starting with Briseis for whom he expresses his emotions many times in the Iliad and she is the first reason of his anger, of course Patroclus and Penthesilea for whom he apparently has feelings for a few monets after he sees her face after she dies. In Posthomerica it is even said that his lamentover her dead body is "the same as the one over Patroclus" and of course Antilochus later according to the Epic Cycle when he died protecting his father, caused another explosion of anger to Achilles which was fated to be his last one.
It is possible since his love is clearly stated in the cases of Briseis and Penthesilea that the same can have occured for Antilochus and of course Patroclus which was the most heartbreaking of them all and for good reason. In fact the case of Patroclus seems to be that he plays every role in the life of Achilles. He is his friend, his companion, his squire, his advisor so why not his lover too.
The Same Urn
Now of course where people surely think they have a clear case of romantic bond seems to be the request of Patroclus to be burnt but his bones to be kept in the same urn that is to be used for Achilles as well. The passage happens in the 23rd rhapsody:
And one more thing I ask for you to excecute; do not place my bones apart from yours, Achilles, but together just like we were raised in your chambers, when I was brought to your land by Menetoios as a little boy from Opois because of the grievous manslaughter, for when I was a child I was foolish and killed the son of Amphidamas without wanting to, for I was mad over a game of dice: there I was accepted to the chambers of the horseman of Peleus who kindly took care of me and named me your squire. And the same way I want for my bones to be together with yours in the same golden box, the one your divine mother prepared for you.
(Translation by me)
So apart from the fact that it is a highly emotional scene, seeing your dead companion arriving at you and begging to be let go (this is literally Patroclus saying "Let me go, Achilles...just let me go" for Achilles literally refuses to give up his body not even for a burial) it is also the scene that seems to be winking to the fans of the idea of them being lovers as a proof that they are together. And quite frankly I can absolutely see why and it would be foolish to ignore this possibility especially given how tenderly Achilles calls him "my beloved" (or "as loved as my own life") after the whole request is done from the spirit of Patroclus which is more than clear indication for many accounts and that makes perfect sense.
The custom of co-burial was known in Greece from the earliest times of its civilization till the end. We often find urns contain bones of multiple individuals and yes more often whatnot they are maritable partners and the obsession of words that mean "together" in this passage such as; "μή (...) ἀπάνευθε" (not apart), "ὁμοῦ" (at the same place, together) or "ἀμφικαλύπτω" (cover each other) seems to be pointing to the direction of a romantic relationship and it won't be the only time someone is co-relating the mingling of ashes and bones with "marriage" (and example is The Hunchback of Notre Dame, where Victor Hugo describes the way Quasimodo and Esmeralda's skeletons turn into inseparable dust as "Quasimodo's Marriage")
However on the counter-talk, co-burials were also common among family members (which is exactly what Achilles and Patroclus are). Ironically from the excavations to Mycenae several co-burials were discovered that were not related by blood but they were theorized to be connected to some relations of adoption (which again seems to fit the case of Achilles and Patroclus from the time Patroclus was brought in and ellegedly adopted by Peleus)
I am also convinced that the fact Patroclus gives us some good portion of his background story here was not just a random thing. It seems that Patroclus places emphasis on why he wants to be in the same urn as Achilles; because they were raised together, they were together all their lives and he wants them to be together in death as well. It absolutely could be a romantic insinuation on Patroclus's part however it seems equally possible that the background story serves as a lever to make the public understand how the two of them were raised together and wished to remain together. It almost feels like Homoer wants either to stimulate the idea that the past is an extra point towards their romantic relationship or yet another point of the closeness of their kinship or both (to me it seems the latter)
However another factor to this urn seems to be Antilochus. Antilochus who was close to the age of Achilles, the one who was in charge to bring the news of Patroclus's death to Achilles and the one that we saw consoling him and trying to prevent him from doing something foolish seems to be added to this circle. In fact in some future sources he is featured as the reason Achilles died, for he was driven in yet another furious attack against the Trojans, forcing them to fall back when he saw him fall dead protecting his father from the Ethiopian king Memnon. In some accounts, even possibly Homer included, is insinuated that Antilochus was also included in the funerary urn with Achilles and Patroclus although in the Odyssey it is clearly stated that his bones are not in it:
Your mother gave me this golden amphora (here an urn with two handles); a gift from Dionysus she said to me, made by the renounced Hephestus, in which lie your white bones, radiant Achilles, mixed with the ones of dead Patroclus son of Menoetius, but without Antilochus, whom he honored above all his comrades after Patroclus died.
(Translation by me)
So in the Odyssey it doesn't seem like they were indeed in the same urn (unless somehow Nestor could tell the bones apart and took them out? hehe) but they all thee of them are joined in one tomb and worshipped as heroes. So in a way Antilochus seems to join them just not in the same box. However the three of them are indeed seen together in the underworld as one trio literally. They are apparently joined after death according to what Odysseus saw in the underworld.
Once again seems like the romantic as well as the kinship theories could be true interchangably or even at the same time.
Ancient Greeks on their relationship:
As I mentioned above many ancient writers and not just the infamous "historians" everyone mocks on the internet, seem to have placed their own guesses and opinions on the relationships of the two heroes.
Aeschines seems to be contemplating the idea they are lovers (aka he says that Homer "hides their love") and he even reads Patroclus's story as "an intercourse they had once". He names their relationship έρως aka romantic love (eros). Aristotle in Nicomachian Ethics and Rethoric he uses the term "comrade" to talk of them, choosing to focus more on their friendship. His teacher Plato though was a different story. He was convinced that they were not only lovers but he had also figured their roles in their relationship as presented in his Symposium, naming Patroclus as ἐραστής aka "the one who gives love" and mentions how Achilles is in love with Patroclus. Plato remains one of the most...great "shippers" of the two having no doubt about their love affair. To the other end is Xenophon who is adamant that they are not lovers, in his own Symposium. A large number of greek writers seem also to comment on both possibilities, it seems to me quite interesting how many different readings the homeric poems provide.
More mordern readings:
While it is true that there is a certain confusion to the public since a large number of texts either were deliberately modified or genuinely mistranslated (given again how terms like φιλώ means "to love" in general in ancient greek and not just romantically or that the term ερώ does mean "to love as a lover" in some contexts but it also means "to desire very much" and it was used in various of contexts) and these double-meanings were taken advantage of to translate the texts differently and that is because when someone in modern times says "my beloved" by n large they refer to a lover which was something that was greatly hushed up in public
Of course as we stated above for ancient greece that was not the case since the term "beloved" could be used in various contexts and it showed intense emotions of kinship between two people regardless of the nature of their relationship.
However in some accounts the obsession upon trying not to show intense potentual homoerotic material made many of these translations unreliable. There were exceptions to the rule of course but the real breakthrough wouldn't really happen till later in the 19th century where we also have more samples of printed work. Translations like Butler at the end of 19th century are far reliable to the text and seem to follow the spirit of Homer. Quite frankly there was already a breakthrough to homoerotic material thanks to not only the neo-classisim but also gothic literature such as the vampire novelle Carmilla so many writers became more bold into translating the tender words of love as they were and leave the public decide upon their nature.
However this effort to hush up the tender words spoken in Homer out of fear that they might be interpreted as homoerotic created of course this modern uprage in which we have the other way round; that people are afraid to talk about friendhsip and kinship because they will be hushed up by the readings of the text as homoerotic
(see my other post for this)
This, in my opinion simply removes all the abive context; that love can be expressed between family members or friends or people who have been through a lot. Quite frankly as you can see not only I am not denying their energy as lovers, I like to believe I am also supporting this theory a lot because there is a lot of possibility in it just like there is on the direction of tenderness and affection. I do think today people are afraid to speak up on the other side exactly bcause nowadays the most famous way to see them is as lovers as opposed to the previous periods that did the other way round
Conclusions:
I have no doubts that Homer, even though not clearly speaking about it (for example referring to sexual acts) he seems to be insinuating that the two of them were sharing romantic bond or feelings for each other (it needs to be noted that it is not entirely clear that if there WERE romantic feelings that they were confessed or known by both parties, which could potentially mean the two of them loved each other romantically but did not fulfill their love which could be another tragic note to their story) Homer seems to be sending several hints to his viewers/readers that one could interpret them as lovers given the tender dictionary they use between each other and for each other, allowing his...fans to decide for themselves. It is also highly possible that he too saw them as star-crossed lovers, for he gives them all the elements of various other stories that involve homoerotic romance, even the tragic end to their story.
However I am equally sure that he also wanted to say that their friendship was of equal importance. There is no doubt that Homer considered them close friends (for he gives us a small hint of their backstory, how they grew together) and their story is being projected like many other duos and characters in the Trojan war that are linked together with bonds of kinship and companionship; stories that flourish at war. He might not straight out tell us that they are the case of story "from friends to lovers" but he absolutely seems to be letting us know that their kinship is there!
And I am grateful to Homer for his writing because it seems to me he wanted both sides to equally enjoy the story; whether they are those who do think their closeness is romance and those who think it is close kinship, strong family bonds or friendship. I am almost convinced that Homer deliberately used that as a way to please both sides of the audience or to give a more tragic aftertaste to their story since closeness is much more impactful to the face of separation.
I like them both and in fact I support them simoultaneously for honestly there is no best lover than your best friend; someone you can trust with everything you have. If I had to support one form of love, this would be it but at the same time I do support the idea that friendship is already a powerful bond of two people and that romantic love in this case would come as a bonus. Somehow Homer does seem to entertain this idea in his writing given again the extreme tenderness and the tragedy of these two while at the same time leaving the door open for his audience to speculate, make interpretations and enjoy the story in their own perspective.
If that is not art I dunno what is.
Okay guys this is only but scrapping the surface of this relationship that lasted for 3000 years now! Hahaha but I hope you like this! It took me several hours to synthesize but I hope you like it.
reread tsoa and can't stop thinking about the fact they knew of achilles and patroclus.Everyone knew it, they must have seen: achilles falling to his knees in the middle of the agora cause patroclus has too much blood on his tunic from a rough day at medic, patroclus becoming the first soldier ever to return from battles without even a stracth bcz his feral dog can't stop doing laps around him, the way achilles doesn't attend any council meetings without him and doesn't make a single decision without eye contact with his philtatos, patroclus small talking with the camp and Achilles "I can't function without patroclus" pelides sulking,the fact that when patroclus ask someone if they slept well the other party can't do the same because everyone heard them last night.
Look at that!!
One 2 AM mini Walmart pumpkin pie later
Achilles n Patroclus :)
In all honestly I might delete this later, that pumkin pie gave me more confidence than I was expecting
clarisse is so achilles because achilles is actually kinda horrible and selfish the whole time but in the end it’s his love for patroclus that shows that he’s just a person after all. clarisse is not nice and she is selfish but she still loved so deeply… 🥺
I'm really pleasantly surprised that you answered :)
Of course, here are some materials from where I got information about Zagreus and Peitho!
For Peitho:
https://mirrorpalace.wordpress.com/2009/10/17/an-exploration-of-peitho/ - her research, which I really love.
And here is the stream of consciousness about her - https://mirrorpalace.wordpress.com/2009/08/17/thoughts-on-peitho/
They both don't belong to me.
https://archiveofourown.org/works/3093410 -the fanfiction in which she appears, just keep in mind that it can be very difficult and dark there - Nico Di Angelo becomes a victim. This fanfiction also doesn't belong to me.
Zagreus:
https://hades.fandom.com/wiki/Zagreus - his wiki page, though I can't judge how good it is, because mostly I just read fanfiction/posts on tumblr and get information from there.
and - https://www.tumblr.com/happyk44/tagged/Zagreus - there is also a lot of good material about Zagreus.
And here's one fanfiction - https://archiveofourown.org/works/47538967/chapters/119808652 - from there I draw the creepy and dark part of Zagreus. It doesn't belong to me.
I'm sorry if you get a little confused. I "collect" Character images from various sources, reinforcing them with my own thoughts. For example, Peitho in my understanding is basically the same as in "An Abyss for Atonement" with some additions and my changes. And if you were wondering why I see Percy as a legacy of goddess of charm and a chthonic god - the answer is simple - Percy is beautiful and charming,He is most likely one of the most beautiful demigods of his generation and he can convince you to do what he wants. And I think Percy has some kind of connection with the underworld, it's a subtle dark atmosphere and the fact that he likes to travel through the shadows. His connection to the underworld is subtle and not too noticeable, as if, funny to say, ghostly.
I think this was the hardest of asks, but somehow, I liked it entirely too much. It's a bit out of box take, but I have already done one where I wrote Percy as a Legacy of Odysseus, so I think this fits too. Why do I have a feeling this is going to be a recurring theme for asks?
I am so terribly sorry for the delay but I didn't want to make the post without reading up on most of your suggestions; as I have said I was really unfamiliar with both Zagreus and Peitho.
As per anon's request Percy is a Legacy of Zagreus and Peitho through his grandparents. Percy Jackson as the Legacy of Zagreus and Peitho. [His grandmother Estelle was the daughter of Zagreus, and his grandfather James - son of Peitho].
Peitho is a very interesting deity. I suggest all readers check out at least one of anon's references. She is the deity of seduction, of persuasion , of divine charm and thrall. A force of passion and abstract power.
In certain versions, she is also an alternate representation of one of the Moraie. Lachesis, to be precise. She also used to represent the concept of everything that has happened before or has been till now.
Zagreus, though intriguing, is a bit more straightforward. I know I know I just called a chthonic god straight forward, but he is. Now, the wiki states that he is the God of Blood, but in one of the codex entries, Achilles says he is also a God of life.
He has connections with Styx and has traversed through Tartarus and here's a fun fact in the orignal myths Zagreus and Dinosyus are actually the same gods or at least father and son which would kind of create an extremely strange and entertaining dynamic but let's stick to game wiki. Not to mention the very newly layered dynamic now painted between Percy, Hades, and Nico.
Now think, Percy, eloquent and charming, words dripping with unspoken power. People think it's the tongue of the sea, of sirens, alluring and hypnotic, but it's far older, far more primordial, of Peithos, of divine eloquence, of persuasion.
Perseus Jackson, who none, not god nor mortal, can deny. Persuasion by words, persuasion by war , is it not all the same? Both reflect passion and thus reflect Peitho.
Perseus Jackson, beautiful and alluring, yet dangerous. Too sharp edged. Not a gentle beauty. A sharp, passionate, bloody beauty ,whether of sea or underworld we know not yet.
Percy Jackson, with midnight black hair, so vivid, so deep, that even the Lord of the Underworld balks at the resemblance, to his own line and that of Poseidon's.
Percy Jackson, who dreams and dreams yet again of things that have been, ages before or just now, it does not matter. He has my sight drawls Peitho , lips red with blood and rose, from somewhere far away, but perhaps Sally hears it all the same for she has it too, the gift of her line.
Perseus, whom Styx spares the fatal curse of Achilles not out of Roman interference but out of familial bonds, of primordial connections. The Underworld looks after its own, does it not? And Perseus Jackson is most certainly of the Underworld, will always be.
Percy, whose mind bends blood as easily as it would water sees not the gift of Zagreus, but a horror of Tartarus but he will come to see, after all blood is life and life is blood. Of blood and over blood child, that is your power declares Zagreus from the deepest caverns if the Underworld and Percy thinks he's heard the whispers of the pit but perhaps, just perhaps blood will serve him well, better than sea, better than water.
Perseus, whose call the rivers obey, the rivers of the Underworld. They recognize the blood of their own, do they not? They do, and they answer. They always will, and so will the dead if he dares call upon them. One day, one day whispers Achilles to Zagreus as they watch, the rise and triumph of the favored child of the sea and the Underworld.
Percy, who puts all in his thrall just with the green of his eyes and the smile at his lips. He sees not the divine Peitho in himself, but Aphrodite does not miss, neither do the Olympians.
Perseus, who teeters on the edge of mortal and divine as does Zagreus between living and death. Both, neither, one more than the other. Which one? We may yet see, but Peitho knows, and so does Zagreus. They do not say it, but the Olympians feel it. The wave of change.
Percy, who finds his way in and out of his uncle's, once and again, and then always. New ways and old ones, even forgotten ones. Perhaps Zagreus will be out of a job soon, thinks Persephone fondly. Not even the Lord of the Dead finds it in himself the words of chagrin.
That's all the thoughts I can think up at the moment but I will reblog with more I am sure cause this will stay with me.
I wrote it a bit too dramatically, but I think it fits well. All things considered. Also, anon, let me know if this was to your liking.
Also, I think Zagreus's dynamic with Nico could be super interesting, and maybe just maybe it deserves it own post.
I completely agree with you, and you are absolutely correct when saying that Odysseus is not the only one Athena favors. She obviously favors a lot of heroes given that she is the goddess that guides most heroes. Terribly sorry if I implied she favors Odysseus only. There's Diomedes, Achilles, Perseus, and then some.
My favorite Athena moment aside from all this is when she helps Diomedes who I honestly believe aside from Odysseus is the only hero she favors quite so highly given that she blessed him with such power; he literally managed to wound Aphrodite all on his own with just Athena's blessing so it obviously shows her favor. I just meant that she favors Odysseus the most out of any and all heroes for all the aforementioned reasons.
I am so glad to see someone with knowledge of actual Odyssey and Iliad agree with some of the points I have made. (I myself want to read those but am swamped with study)
I am obsessed with Epic, the musical as all people are and should be.
One of my absolute favorite parts (I love everything about it, the lyrical genius, the phenomenal melodies, the best cast) about the Saga itself is Athena and Odysseus's relation.
There are lots of opinions on how Athena doesn't treat Odysseus as a person but as a property, which I think is slightly misinterpreted. Odysseus is the only one in the whole Greek mythology to be so favored by Athena. She sees her very self reflected in him and hence sees him as an extension of herself given that she takes time and effort to teach Odysseus everything she can.
Yes, Odysseus gets ahead of himself and gets sentimental of sorts, but in the end, the mistake that causes his initial falling out with her is also something that mirrors Athena. Hubris is Athena's fatal flaw, and it's the same for Odysseus.
Athena's greatest ability is critical thinking in the heat of the moment, something Odysseus himself lives by and represents.
Gods are not flawless. No, they are every bit flawed, and deep deep down, they know it.
To Athena Odysseus giving into his flaws is a slap to the face because despite knowing her own and knowing how Odysseus reflects hers, she fails to make him overcome it.
He is also perhaps the only person to have insulted Athena to her face and lived to tell the tale without any repercussions because she knows he tells the truth but most of all because she accepts that if anyone has the right to reprimand her its Odysseus someone who has lived by her principles.
Even after their falling out, Athena defends him against the Olympians, and despite everything, Odysseus does his best to stick to Athena's teachings and doesn't hate her.
Athena does her best to advice Telemacus and even calls him her friend.
Throughout the Greeks myths, it is cemented that Athena and Odysseus had a strong relationship and were equals more so than a hero and his patron
The most ironically beautiful thing was that I was rereading Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus books to find Odysseus references through Mark of Athena and the part where Annabeth finds Athena at the subway, lost and frazzled,turned into Minerva due to the Roman and Greek demigods being together.
Minerva is nothing like Athena, she is Athena who is bitter and enraged and consumed with vengeance against the Romans who attacked her city and turned her into a just a Goddess of Wisdom and Crafts taking from her the domain of war and strategy. And in this emotionally heightened, unstable state that goes against her very nature, Annabeth hears her mumbling, "If Odysseus were here, he would know the way, he would know how best to help.."
And that to me is so raw and beautiful that in this terrible state that's basically a mental breakdown, The Goddes of Wisdom and Strategy thinks that Odysseus would be able to help. A mortal, yes, a great hero but still a mortal, and help in what? In guiding Athena herself as she tries to find her way back to her place of power, in guiding the lost goddess of wisdom.
Through the whole Percy Jackson series, it is repeatedly iterated how Odysseus is Athena's most and all-time favorite.
I also like how those books portray Odysseus as he was, a great hero and the most loyal husband.
I just had to rant on this. It's kept me awake for so long.
AM I THE ONLY ONE GETTING ACHILLES AND PATROCLUS VIBES FROM NETFLIX'S YOUNG ROYALS?
it's just me? ok
“Sweetie, that’s a mass murderer.”
To ✨y o u✨
To ✨m e✨, he’s babygirl
Me, holding up my favorite characters: These are my dumbass children. They are so very stupid and I love them so very much.
"when he was gone, would I be like Achilles, wailing over his lost lover Patroclus? I tried to picture myself running up and down the beaches, tearing at my hair, cradling some scrap of old tunic he had left behind. Crying out for the loss of half my soul. I could not see it. That knowledge brought its own sort of pain."
Circe - Madeline Miller
I just finished reading the Song of Achilles.
I cried even though I knew from the start how it would end? Yes.
Would I cry again if I read it again? Absolutely.
"Name one hero who was happy"-
Heroes are warriors whose hands are painted red with the blood of thousand of innocent people. Maybe that's why they turned mad. Maybe that's why they never got a happy ending.
iliad tumblr simulator
🦉 ithacasfavguy Follow
boss is asleep. currently on a quest to steal some wine
🦉 ithacasfavguy Follow
stop reblogging this i'm gonna get caught you fuckers
#/srs
(729 notes)
🌻 achilles Follow
hahaha it would be so funny if i got so deathly drunk my hot doctor boyfriend had to escort me to the infirmary and pin me down so i dont end up stabbing someone and holding me by the hair to force my chin up and make me drink medicine hahahahaha
#please #pleaseee #i am so gay rn
(2,486 notes)
🚬 menelaghh Follow
i miss my wife
(215 notes)
🦢 helen Follow
currently having the time of my life. everything is great. except my new husband. i hope he dies
#captive princess life
(8,632 notes)
🐌 patrokloss Follow
never thought id have to say this but please do not try to make homemade wine with random shit you find on the woods ?? a guy just died
#psa #medicine
(371 notes)
👤 hektoroftroy Follow
guys im gonna be honest the worst thing to ever happen in my life was my brother coming back
🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow
:((
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you are literally on my DNI. this is your fifth account. please go away
(420 notes)
💪 jaxajax Follow
why are all the animals coughing to death?
#is this normal #vets of tumblr answer me
(13 notes)
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these trojans ain't shit 😂😂😂 we'll be winning this easy fr
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girl help it's been ten years
(824 notes)
👁 cassssandra Follow
being haunted by visions can be very fun actually
#therapist told me to be positive #trying
(5 notes)
🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow
hello
🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow
stop telling me to kill myself???
(8,753 notes)
🌻 achilles Follow
i hope you nerds name men on men attraction after me when i die
#if this doesnt happen then what is the point
(10,942 notes)
Not emoji related but I thought you guys would like this meme I made!!
Historians : Achilles, Patroclus and others that you think were couples, were only friends.
Us:
