This is amazing!
Ares: Need a hand?
Telemachus: What’s going on here?
Ares: Is your plan to stand around? Or are you gonna tear them down?
Telemachus: I don’t know how
Ares: Then stop thinking. Feel the fire. Swing.
Telemachus: Woah, why am I burning up? Why do I feel so strong?
Ares: That’s the bloodlust kicking in.
Telemachus: This is insane!
Ares: No. This is war. Now go.
Ares: I've no respect for cowards, Those who prey upon the weak. I've bathed in war for centuries, And I know how the ruthless think. So paint this floor in crimson, Show them what you are One young wolf with sharpened fangs Against a herd of starving dogs!
This might be incoherent and not make any sense because I'm just trying to get this down. For now all I have right now is just Xie Lain and not any other tgcf cast but I'll deal with that later.
Sometime during the end of Xie Lian's 2nd banishment he ends up in the ocean. Originally the plan was just to help some fisherman in exchange for food but a storm hit (just his luck) and he got thrown overboard. Next thing he knows he's waking up on the shore of an unfamiliar land
Logically this makes no sense and considering the world building differences in gods and monsters (ghosts too ig) that tgcf and epic are two separate worlds that Xie Lian just so happens to cross over.
Now for convenience I'm just going to say that Telemachus finds him when returning from some diplomatic mission (not the one from hold them down, we're not that far). Now while I do want XL and Athena to meet, Athena hasn't met telemachus yet. So, Telemachus (somehow) recognizes that Xie Lian is some kind of swordsman (even though he stopped using a sword after what happened in Yong-An, just role with it) and asks Xie Lian if he will train him in exchange for a place to stay. Xie Lian reluctantly agrees because, well, it's been a while since he had a decent meal
Cut to a little bit later (little wolf), Telemachus can hold his own a bit better then in cannon but Athena still steps in and along with quick thought and the bit of training from xl, Telemachus holds his own for a lot longer... though of course some other suitors step in because why would they ever fight fair. So, in steps Xie Lian and they actually win the scuffle (we'll say it wasn't a big group of suitors).
I don't think XL has been there long enough to already get into a fight and I think he knows that if he does try and fight them that it will end pretty bloody
Athena talk to both Telemachus and XL, intrigued by this mysterious fighter who looks to be younger then the prince yet masterfully skilled. I think Athena and Xie Lian would 100% get along, feeling rather similar in the failed teacher aspect. I do also believe that they would exchange information about each others worlds and Athena would convince XL that he should pick up a sword again (I like swords and I like Xie Lian, sue me)
Somewhere down the line XL is able to convince some suitors to become guards instead. They're faith in Antinous bruised after seeing him get beat up by the prince and some random teenager. Perhaps XL even convinces them that Penelope won't ever love them.
Hold them down and Odysseus still happen except they're a lot less because one, Ody has allies and two, less suitors
You might be wondering how XL gets back to his own world. Well, after OdyPen is reunited and safe (no more naughty suitors), Xie Lian’s work is done, he's not exactly needed, which becomes the catalyst first his third ascension (Don't worry about the logistics of Xie Lian ascending to his worlds heaven while in another world.)
For now that's all I got, perhaps more things happen that cause other tgcf cast members to end up in Epic, perhaps the story just goes on as it is without anymore mention of it outside of how it affected xl (and hence affected cannon)
I totally love the idea of this greatly affecting cannon somehow bur it not even coming up until well into post cannon
Hua Cheng trying to get out of calligraphy practice (xl isn't letting him flirt his way out but he knows how much his husband loves talking about swords): The craftsmanship of Gege's sword is very unique, would he perhaps te me where it's from?
Xie Lian: Oh, a goddess from another world gifted it to me
Hua Cheng:
Epic and scum villain are currently my favorite fandoms (not counting tgcf) so I wanted to make this list. Also please give me any epic x svsss fics or art, I'd greatly appreciate it (I've already read the suffering fic)!!!
Just a man: This was actually what inspired this list and the idea for an animation won't leave my head. This is Shen Qingqiu during the abyss scene. This is him trying to rationalize pushing Luo Binghe. The whole first half of the song is him saying how he couldn’t possibly do it. You'd replace "Deep down I'd trade the world to see my son and wife" with "Deep down I'd trade almost anything to save you from this fate" (yes ik it doesn't sound good or rhyme but I'm terrible at anything music based or poem based). The silent beat between "I'm just a man" and the "but when dose a comet become a meteor" is the system reminded him of how many points he'll lose (and maybe how many he has), so he get that final push to turn his sword onto Luo Binghe.
Luck runs out: OK, this one is not even close to cannon but I'd love if this happened even if it's slightly occ. Also this isn't nearly as long as just a man bc that one actually has been haunting my brain like Christmas in October. I can see this is moment between Shen Qingqiu escaping the water prison and self destructing where somehow Shen Qingqiu runs into Shang Qinghua. I think that it would be more likely to happen if they were a bit closer and if Shang Qinghua wasn't fully sure that the mushroom bodies would be ok. I think it could sort of be Shang Qinghua trying to get Shen Qingqiu to flee the city (this gets shut down either by Shen Qingqiu telling him about the blood mites or Luo Binghe almost having qi deviation)
Wouldn't you like: Doing time jumps because I'm going in Epic order. This is literally just some sort of knowledge person rewarding Luo Binghe for helping them. So they tell him about Xin Mo and how all of his enemies (or monsters), that will kill him if he doesn't become stronger, will be easily defeated with Xin Mo
There are other ways: A woman who was supposed to be a wife trying to get out of a lost fight. Of course Luo Binghe doesn't care so instead she gives him information about a prophet that can help him escape in exchange for mercy.
No longer you: I would talk about this but there are already at least three animations on YouTube on this, they're both so good. [animation 1] [animation 2] [animation 3]
Monster: Luo Binghe finally "snapping" or coming to terms with his blackening (in the abyss)
Suffering: Sirens that were either a wife plot or wives themselves originally, probably both. Luo Binghe trying to get info out of a siren that looks like his beloved shizun, thats it. There is also a really cool animation of this on YouTube. [Animation]
Legendary: this on is only being added because the same creator at the suffering did one if legendary and it opened my eyes. It's pretty much white lotus Binghe talking about wanting to be great then cutting to black lotus (during the five years) wishing for his shizun back. [Animation]
Little wolf: Kind of a stretch but Meng Mo training a young Luo Binghe. This would not be a real fight but old fights that Luo Binghe lost and is reliving in his dreams to see what he did wrong. The only problem would be hurting the mind by hurting someone in a dream. Alternatively: Shen Qingqiu silently cheering on Luo Binghe during his "fight" with Ming Fan. Quick thought would just be the leaves being shot
Not sorry for loving you: I already made a post about this and as you can see by the dwindling lengths of these descriptions, I'm getting really lazy (plus it's late) so just read the post please. [Post]
I can't help but wonder: This just feels like something post cannon where BingQiu finally talk about everything. Luo Binghe probably says something about how he's a monster and has done terrible things and Shen Qingqiu is practically offended that Luo Binghe would suggest that Shen Qingqiu wouldn't love him because of that
This post was too ambitious for one sitting, especially this late but I did it. I might add more when my thoughts are more coherent and I'm not just throwing the pink slab of meat in my skull into the post
I watched all of epic the musical even if i don't know how i feel about writing epic the musical agere i do know the long 'little wolf' is a great nickname i will be using here :3
Ugly ugly drawing that is not and never will be finished because I don’t care if those wolves look bad: I spent two hours on them and I refuse to ever look at them again
TELEMACHUS MY BOY!!!
Honestly most of the stuff I have to say about him deals with the next two songs instead of this one…
Okay, but the more I listen to Antonius the more his voice is just ✨✨✨? Like Calypso’s voice being gorgeous was on SIGHT (on… hear? Heard? Audio?), but Antonius keeps getting better the more I listen to him. Don’t get me wrong he’s a bad dude, but his voice acting? Beautiful
I love the setup in this song, you don’t even notice because it’s so catchy
ARGUS CRUSHED MY HEART IN THE ANIMATIC (like I knew he would) poor dog boi… if Jorge doesn’t have Odysseus say hello to him in a song I will be heartbroken.
This song… the appearance of Athena in this song brought my prospective ranking of it from likely low to battling it out with Love in Paradise for top spot (I’m STILL not sure which one I like more).
When Athena first appeared in the livestream I (mentally) SCREAMED- MY FAV IS BACK SHE’S BACK AND I LOVE HER (very platonically)
I love the little interlude with her and Telemachus- speaking of which-
I’ve seen some people mention how Telemachus seems much younger than 20/21. Something about the portrayal of Telemachus as this naïve inexperienced child? I’m not sure. But I have my own thoughts to share on this, because as someone who’s close to that young adult age, I think it’s actually pretty accurate for Telemachus’s character. He’s lived in the palace all his life, he’s longing to adventure in the world beyond, but he doesn’t know how to fight… I mean, I don’t specifically relate to Telemachus but I can see aspects of this in my own life. I’ve taken my first baby steps into the big adult world, and it’s intimidating and scary, and I don’t know how anything works, but I’m trying anyways. Point being, I don’t understand how people think that Telemachus has to be younger just because he doesn’t have certain life experiences or knowledge yet. I think it’s a very good portrayal of a young adult being unsure of his coming into the world but excited for it anyways.
Anyways back to ATHENA MY GIRL
I love that we get an in-musical explanation of Quick Thought!! I think it’s really important for a musical to be self-contained with its important lore/information and Jorge does such a great job with that.
Athena’s entire speech about the suitors and bullies and inspiring Telemachus and reframing his “Little Wolf” title CHUCKED THIS SONG SO HIGH IN MY BOOK I need to find a character of mine to associate this part to
The little “ooohhhh, maybe I pushed him a bit to hard” is hilarious
Interesting thing we’re doing with transitions into the next songs with this saga. I do agree with some of the people who said it sounds kind of off in this song; I think it might’ve flowed better if it introduced the next one, but honestly, I’m entirely willing to ignore that because this song is *so* good
I have one glaring complaint about this song…. WHY ISNT IT LONGER?!?! I NEED MORE OF THIS
I can honestly see this becoming a comfort song for me, it holds such great messages to remember
“Cause I got in a fight, and I didn’t die!” The bar is on the FLOOR with Telemachus
The voice actors are rocking their respective high notes! Jorge pushed them and they owned it!!
Speaking of those good encouraging messages- I absolutely adore Telemachus’s chorus. Every time I listen to it, my brain auto-fills the lyrics ahead, and I hear, “maybe it’s all gonna be okay,” but then Telemachus actually sings the verse and it’s “maybe it’s all gonna turn out great!” And that’s just… such a good thing to think about. Yeah, it’s gonna be okay in the end, but what if it was better than okay? What if it turned out to be absolutely amazing?? That’s… such a positive way to view things and I need it more in my life. Of course it could get toxic but for me, it’s a great reminder of how good things can become
I read a post that mentioned how the happiest song in the Thunder Saga is called Suffering, and the saddest song in the Wisdom Saga is called Love in Paradise, and I hate how accurate that is T^T
THE TIME DIVE MONTAGE WAS SO GOOOD- such a fun mini mash-up of the rest of the songs! I wish I had more to say about it because I want to keep gushing over it but I’m just gonna end up repeating myself saying it’s so good
The little replay of the “Captain?” “I have to see her” ;-;
WANGUI’S VOCALS— I CAN’T— THEY’RE SO GORGEOUS *unintelligible squealing*
“She’s my wife”
“…”
“…”
“…”
“…”
“…”
“Anyways-“
Her voice is so pretty help I don’t approve of her actions but her VOICE HER VOICE
Can I also just say the animatic/visuals for this section were also gorgeous, such a great compliment to the audio
The way it goes from all sweet and bouncy to “oh ****” and right back to sweet was so good
“Last I checked goddesses can’t die!!” *cue the Wisdom Saga stream crash of 2024*
The cliff scene… oh my goodness it’s so *good* it’s all so *good* Jorge how are you so good at writing
He pays such close attention to characters and motifs and lines too- you can hear how Calypso triggers Odysseus’s flashback.
NOT TO MENTION- when Odysseus yells his line “All I hear are SCREAMS”, it’s in response to Calypso’s line “I’ll stay inside your heart”- which is Odysseus’s mom’s lyric from the underworld!! I literally just noticed the connection between the line and his reaction and I haven’t seen anyone else mention it before so-
And Athena’s little “he needs my help”- aaaaaa we all feel the pain
Oh *boy howdy* this one is a doozy
The intro is great, I adore Zeus’s voice- this cast is just FULL of talented voice actors man
“… Hera!…. Or me” …. A-wha-huh? I’m sorry didn’t you used to be “and”???
I was intrigued what Apollo’s grievance would be based on the whole “who’s cows” debacle- the sirens kinda threw me off guard xD
His voice is ✨✨✨ though, I love listening to him
JORGE’S DAD HEPHAESTUS!!!!! Aghhh his voice was so good for the part! And I loved the commentary on trust too
Aphrodite’s and Ares’s parts are still amazing even after all this time- I LOVE the details of Ares’s musical motif! He has the same melody as Athena, but played on this raw-sounding violin/cello? And he *also* has quick thought- but it still all feels different from Athena’s too! Because they’re both gods of war but with different domains and attributes AAAA so good!
And Athena’s lyrics in response- I love the re-do and the little extra quirks in it, like the extra growl on “ARES!!!” And the little riff(?) on “his son’s my FRIIIIEND”
Hera’s part was amazing. 100/10. Her voice was a lot… smoother than I was expecting honestly. It took a bit of getting used to but now I love it. And I am HERE for the dance battle
“Never once has he cheated on his wife”
“Release him.”
10/10 ✨✨✨
I was… really excited for an Athena/Zeus debate in this song when listening to all the snippets. I couldn’t wait to see how Athena would try and persuade Zeus, what arguments he would use specifically, how it would all go down… instead I got uh-
“I played your game and won! Release him.”
Oh so, no Zeus round? Ohh this is why it got changed to “or” isn’t it-
“You DARE to defy me?”
Huh-
“To make me feel shame?”
What’s happeni-
“No one beats me, NO ONE WINS MY GAME!!”
Oh boy howdy-
“THUNDER BRING HER THROUGH THE WRINGER, SHOW HER I’M THE JUDGEMENT CALL, THE ONE WHO MAKES HER KINGDOM FAAAAALL—“
I’M SORRY THIS WENT FROM 10 TO 100 SO FAST WHAT IS HAPPENING?!—
Athena in the flashback scene- holding baby Telemachus- the music- my HEART
And the end instrumental is so triumphant aaaaaa
“Let him gooooo! Please-“ JORGE WHEN I GET YOU JORGE—
Uh, so
My thoughts on God Games right after it came out were
Mixed
At first I was so absolutely frazzled from the livestream I could barely put thoughts together outside of incoherent screaming
But then I read a few tumblr posts about how some others were disappointed in how God Games ended and Zeus’s character- and I found myself agreeing :/
I do have a propensity for latching onto different opinions because I think they’re the “expected” one for me to have- and I totally think a bit of that was going on here- so I took some time off of tumblr/limiting my scrolling (which needed to be stopped anyways-) to really sort out how I felt on this
And I think I feel a bit stilted by God Games from its ending. The ending was… underwhelming? Which sounds INSANE considering the end of the stream but it’s underwhelming less because of actual shock factor and more because of what specifically happens versus my expectations.
Zeus just kind of… blasts Athena in the face??? Without provocation?? Athena DID win his game, she passed the terms he set out, she did all of that… and he shocks her anyways. It just. Doesn’t really sit right with me.
But I love Epic, and want to enjoy every song I come across, and I REALLY didn’t want this view of the ending of God Games to taint the rest of the song or the rest of the musical. So in my next big post, I’m going to do a mini “rewrite”/reworking of God Games that I’ve been toying around with in my mind for a little while now!!
I’ll explain more about why and what and the details in that post but for now, just know that it’s been a helpful exercise in enjoying God Games as it is too, and I’ll get to posting that the next time school isn’t absolutely crushing me with long homework assignments
Anyways, those are my kinda-in-depth thoughts about the Wisdom Saga!! I’ve been so excited to write this out and I’m happy to be posting it finally
“My brain is rotting from the Wisdom Saga” has got to be some sort of paradox hasn’t it
i drew athena in my sketchbook! i like how it turned out
Listening to Little Wolf on loop isn’t enough, I need Telamachus to fucking upercut me.