Holy Shit Somebody On Reddit Linked To The Web Page Of A Designer For Disco Elysium And I’m Reeling

John and Arthur’s Established Dynamics With Dutch And How This Impacts Redemption: An Analysis

What makes Dutch Van Der Linde such a compelling antagonist is his extreme narcissism, both covert and apparent. Red Dead Redemption 2 is particularly keen on showcasing this, as players get to experience Dutch’s charisma and mental decline through the eyes of Arthur Morgan, who loves Dutch dearly. On the contrary, Red Dead Redemption 1 displays John Marston grappling with the order to eradicate his former gang members, including Dutch. Through John’s perspective, players get to understand the complexities that come with having to confront a path that has both benefited and destroyed you. Yet, both protagonists serve the same purpose: the complex relationship one may have with a narcissistic “parent” figure. While both John and Arthur appear to have conflicting personalities with one another, they find a common understanding with one another through their sibling-like bond that has arisen from both being raised by Dutch.

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Arthur was only fourteen when he was taken in by Dutch. After a childhood filled with death, brutality, abuse, and homelessness, Dutch was able to swoop in, take Arthur off the streets, and give him a sense of security. This meant everything to Arthur, and with Dutch, Arthur was able to finally have a stable, present, and attentive father figure in his life. However, what Arthur consistently struggled to pick up on was Dutch’s true intentions, which were not as loving and fatherly as Dutch wanted them to seem. By recognizing Arthur’s underlying anger and need for validation, Dutch was able to condition Arthur into being the perfect bodyguard: violent, strong, and eager to do the job right.

Arthur is heavily reliant on Dutch to the point that he sacrifices self-autonomy for Dutch’s sake. The storyline with Mary Linton is a prime example of this. In actuality, Arthur could have chosen to protect himself and run away with his former lover, but Arthur’s entire life has been centered around Dutch’s gang. When Mary says that there is a good man inside of him wrestling with a “giant,” there is a reason why she does not claim that this “giant” is evil or inherently bad; it is only larger than Arthur is. This internal struggle centered around remaining loyal to himself or to the people he calls his family is central to Arthur’s redemption arc, especially through the use of the honor system. Both low and high honor result from a series of cations that allow Arthur to redeem himself, but high honor means that Arthur’s time concludes with the acceptance that he was able to fight for what felt true to himself, while low honor is Arthur getting killed fighting against the very thing that caused the gang’s destruction.

Either way, Arthur redeems himself by fully embracing the notion that Dutch is a flawed and selfish individual who has proven his own safety to appear more vital than protecting the gang as a whole. Yet, it takes the duration of Red Dead Redemption 2 for this truth to be fully embraced by Arthur, who continues to base his actions and existence around pleasing Dutch. Getting called “son” or “my boy” by the man Arthur has been conditioned to rely on is what pushes Arthur to continuously combat his own moral code. Additionally, Arthur cannot fathom the idea of being disappointing to Dutch in any sort of way, even if it causes him to abandon his own sense of right or wrong. By beating up Thomas Downes despite feeling wrong about it, Arthur contracts tuberculosis and is forced to run on dwindling time as a result of his vile actions. Yet, this extreme realization that self-betrayal is equally as harmful as rejecting the expectations of somebody you love is what ultimately catalyzes Arthur’s journey of change.

Arthur’s conflict with John also tells a lot about Arthur's life and for other people. When John turns his back on both Abigail and the gang as a whole, Arthur struggles to find the reason for this. Rather than recognizing the deep-rooted fear and self-doubt that John has been facing, especially when it comes to continuing to live for the gang, Arthur berates John because John is doing something Arthur himself has done and regretted: making the wrong choice when it comes to standing by a loved one. While Arthur chose to “love” the gang more than Mary and then had to endure the consequences for such a choice, John, who is both terrified of disappointing Abigail and conflicted about his changing perspective on the gang, is choosing to avoid both entirely and run away for an entire year. Upon John’s return, Arthur is furious that the gang, especially Dutch, is willing to welcome John back with open arms. This makes Arthur resent John for the choices John has made, but at the same time, have a deep-rooted jealousy over the fact that Dutch treated John well for being disloyal, while the expectation from Arthur is that he will never act in such a way, and thus, Arthur feels John is receiving blind loyalty from Dutch. However, Arthur is misunderstanding a much more complicated relationship dynamic.

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Like Arthur, John also has an underlying incapability of living apart from the gang. Despite his issues with Dutch, John will always have a complicated sense of reliance on Dutch whilst resenting the life John believes was given to him. However, while Arthur falls into the role of being Dutch’s “golden child,” being Dutch’s trusted right-hand man and gang enforcer, John gets a much more complicated role. John is Dutch’s scapegoat child who is heavily criticized and berated no matter how hard he may try to prove himself worthy; however, if John tries to reject Dutch following this treatment, Dutch knows how to masterfully reel John back in. For example, even though Dutch welcomed John back into the gang, it is something that gets used against John in his weaker moments for his guilt to corrupt him into obeying Dutch. Additionally, Dutch making John say “yes, Dutch” out loud is a way to force John into a position of submission and lower status in the instances where he dares to challenge Dutch. John tends to be much more direct when it comes to critiquing Dutch as opposed to Arthur’s display, which comes across as concerned rather than combative. Thus, John and Dutch kind of have this established dynamic where John acts as a defiant child whom Dutch must remind to be loyal and obedient, consistently forcing John to align with an outlaw lifestyle that he is contemplating the morality of.

John is more independent than Arthur in the sense that he is deciding who he wishes to be dependent on. Throughout both stories, it is evident that John resents authority figures, and this is where his childishness shines through. While Arthur will respect authority if Dutch tells him to or if Arthur feels that person is worthy of respect, while John is much more weary and combative from the start. This is simply part of his nature, and Dutch understands and fuels this so that John can serve him. However, Abigail offers a stark comparison to Dutch. While Dutch ultimately demands blind obedience, Abigail demands change in John because she wants John to be less afraid of himself. Abigail understands John’s internal struggle with power, loyalty, and abuse cycles, and she directly combats it. She is somebody who challenges John to do better, which is something he has lacked his entire life. In a world where he is expected to serve for the sake of others, Abigail pushes him to serve himself, which will ultimately allow John to serve her, too.

It could be argued that John’s sense of “redemption” is vastly different from Arthur’s. The very fact that John ran away for a year following Jack’s birth is very telling of the internal conflict eating him alive; John knows he cannot exist on his own, and he must now decide who to be loyal to. While in his heart, he wants to dedicate his life to Abigail and Jack, John does not know how to live a life independently from the world he was brought up in. John wants to be a good dad but never had a good father himself, and John wants to leave the gang, but this would isolate him from both Abigail and the only community he knows. This endless feeling of servitude is something John understands he cannot escape. In Red Dead Redemption 1, this sense of being used by others is crushing John, especially because the United States government has kidnapped John’s family and will only release them if John vows to kill former members of the now-disbanded gang. John wants to protect his family more than anything, but he still struggles with obliterating people from his past who once meant everything to him. As a result, John’s avoidance is displayed through his acceptance of impending death. Throughout both games, John acts in reckless, death-seeking manners, putting himself in high-risk situations where death is a possible reality, such as straight up walking to Bill Williamson, essentially setting himself up to be shot. Yet, to John, being rescued from death serves him as a sign that his purpose on this Earth has not yet been completed, and there is more work to be done for those he loves before death can finally greet him. Ultimately, this shapes John’s redemption arc; John has to keep pushing forward so that he does not die at the hands of the gang and, instead, can conclude his life protecting the people at the core of his heart, which is why his death at the hands of the government following John’s completion of taking down his former gang members is both tragic and beautiful.

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One other major element of Dutch’s manipulation is how he treats John and Arthur like they are too dumb to understand nuanced topics. Yet, this is far from the truth. While John and Arthur are not the most well-read or academically savvy, the two display a deep level of thoughtfulness and insight about the world around them. John is hyper-aware of both himself and the world around him, and he is even one of the first people who recognized something deeply troubling about Dutch’s increasingly erratic behavior. This allows John to read people and situations based on intention rather than bias or false judgment. Even in Mexico, when John is being manipulated by multiple people, he understands that the people he is involving himself with are untrustworthy, but since he has no other options, he must wearily follow through with the situations he gets put into. While John often appears highly pessimistic, this is just a portrayal of his awareness of the harsh realities of the world he exists in, and there are just menial means for him to express this. Even if he did, Dutch would likely berate him until John regretted speaking up in the first place. On the contrary, Arthur appears to be more sheltered than John is, likely because Arthur grew up knowing fewer people and crimes. Yet, Arthur has a much more artistic soul than he lets others see, taking a lot of time to analyze and sketch what he encounters in this world that he finds interesting. His journal displays introspective writing that highlights the faults of both himself and the world around him that he prefers to pretend do not exist, and Arthur gets along very well with people who are atypical thinkers or live alternative, authentic lifestyles. Yet, because neither John nor Arthur read philosophy or desire “high-society,” Dutch demeans the two into believing they are unintelligent and incapable of complexity. Thus, if either one questions what Dutch is doing, he knows that he has the power to make John and Arthur believe that they are too stupid to do so. Yet, John is much more combative to this perspective than Arthur is, and John frequently makes comments to Dutch that question his decisions. In these moments, Dutch feels the most challenged and resorts to harsh insults that directly call out a personal struggle either John or Arthur have, reestablishing that they must remain loyal to Dutch because otherwise they are “worthless.”

Red Dead Redemption is beautiful in many ways. The intricate world design, multitude of storylines, and raw portrayal of complex realities make for a story that is compelling, relatable, and thought-provoking. Yet, one aspect that I think sets the Red Dead Redemption franchise apart from other stories is its hopeful and honest representation of the struggle to find a meaningful conclusion for a life filled with violence, abuse, and uncertainty. Neither John nor Arthur displays a sense of dreading their mortality. Instead, death in Red Dead Redemption serves as a reminder that the future is never promised, so it is important to make the most of the present because what is happening now is the only inherent truth of life. For a multitude of years, Dutch prevented the acceptance of such a reality for John and Arthur, and Dutch sold the false truth that he is the only truth in either man’s life, and as their “God” and “father,” both must worship him above all else. Yet, as fate closes in more and more on both John and Arthur, the realization that Dutch is dangerous not only gets embraced, but it allows for the opportunity to spend the time both have left doing what feels right rather than remaining with what is familiar. While the past can never be altered and the reality of death cannot be evaded, there is a sense of power in the realization that life cannot be foreseen or controlled, and thus, one must live each day remaining loyal to oneself. You are the only thing guaranteed to be both born and ended with you, so why betray the very being that allows you to exist at all?

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Riaz Moola, the founder of CoGrammar and Longdue which claims to be making a "successor to Disco Elysium" is so cartoonishly evil, like I can't believe this shit:

- he is currently legally preventing Argo Tuulik from working at Summer Eternal and in the industry until April 2025

- he wanted to be a shareholder of Summer Eternal and was asking SE to promote Longdue and not marked themselves or accept any crowdfunding until April 2025

- he is also teaming up with za/um, and taking Tuulik to court which is insanely expensive, which is why Argo is close to bankruptcy now, and had to set up a GoFundMe

- said GFM was taken down after a day and it's very likely that Moola did this because

- on the reddit post about this GFM Moola has made a comment that has like 300 upvotes, and some negative comments directed at him have a lot of downvotes, which is super suspicious considering other comments don't have even half as much engagement there, (and I think some comments even got deleted somehow!) &

- he is the CEO of Hyperiondev, which infamous for deleteting negative reviews about it's shit quality coding bootcamp

- Moolah's response to Argo was that "come on I'm just a small business owner and you were friendly with me in an email some months ago" (this dude is the CEO of multiple companies and who sues their friend into bankruptcy??)

- Argo Tuulik has said that he is doubtful that anyone from the old disco team is working at Longdue, and Moola could be using the fact that Tuulik was doing something for a very short time at CoGrammar to say that 'former de developers are at Longdue'

In conclusion,

Fuck Riaz Moola and what Longdue is making has nothing to do with disco elysium

I just wanted to thank you for contributing to society, an amazing few hours spent in binge reading, the feelings stirring in the chest when something in Kim wakes up after all those years. Reading it and seeing all those people, sceneries. Good soup.

Kim feels for the Satellite Officer. It’s clear what he’s been through, what Harry has subjected him to over the last few years - Kim only knows the half of it, of course, but he’s seen it before, hermit-cops pushing everyone away, their partner last man standing at the bombsite. Still, it feels cruel to punish this person for it, this wiped-clean, remade Harry, looking at Kim now like a bottle-fed animal about to be released into the wild. If Kim does go to the 41st, navigating all this will be an extra layer of complexity. He should think very carefully about it - about whether it’s worth getting mixed up in all this. The mess.

A slow-burn, Kim-POV story about going to the 41st, against his better judgement.

Chapter One, Lonesome Long Way Home

Chapter Two, The Man Without a Name 

Chapter Three, The Old Cinema

Chapter Four, Where The Wild Thyme Blows

Chapter Five, Sorry Cop

Chapter Six, Triturus Marmoratus

Chapter Seven, The Needlepoint Poisoner

Chapter Eight, The Remains of Tiphaine Holly

Chapter Nine, Girl Child Revolution

Chapter Ten, Retour à nouveau

So real

aougohgghwhtvr

Fuck i just realised how much funnier it would be if in swap au it would STILL be harry who loses his memory. A sweet guy and a genius, but clueless, so he has to be lead around by a toal disaster of a man. Fuck. I might have to redraw the idea for the comic from the beginning. B'D

a scene can start wherever you want it to

writing isn't real life. You don't need to set up a character walking into a room or two characters greeting each other and talking about the weather or what-have-you in order to lead into the conversation you actually want them to have. just start at the conversation.

hell, start in the middle of the conversation. you could even start at the end and then have one of them leave and the other one left behind to reflect back on what just happened.

writing gets easier when you open yourself up to writing the parts that are interesting, to starting where it's easy instead of where you think you should start.

if it ends up not working? that's okay. you tried it, and sometimes just getting something out of your head is a necessary first step to getting the words right

(☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞ DISCO ELYSIUM  ▴  11/–

Kim Kitsuragi shitpost voicelines!

Please see end of post if you want to use these!

Submitted by you, voted for by you, I'd like to present the voicelines you were just dying to hear being said by Kim - dutifully performed by the brilliant Jullian Champenois.

In 10th place,

How did we get here? We walked, believe it or not. You were not entirely lucid.

In 9th place,

I want to have fuck with you.

In 8th place, Normal people, when they go down a slide - they're fine.

Submission idea attributed to this post.

In 7th place, No, detective, I do not just want to go apeshit.

Submitted by bowyooo. In 6th place, Apartment complex? I find it quite simple.

Submitted by elelei. In 5th place, Officer, what the fuck was that?

In 4th place, Trans rights are human rights, detective. Obviously.

In 3rd place, Do I like men? Man is a hopeless creature. I don't like much of anyone. ...Oh, if you meant sexually, then, yes.

In 2nd place,

Detective, Instead of worrying about appearing 'submissive and breedable', please make sure your paperwork is submitted and readable.

Submitted by scrollingdown. And finally, in 1st place, the voice line you all wanted to hear so so badly is...

I'm da king of da highway.

Usage

You are welcome and encouraged to use these for memes, shitposts, and other foolish fan content on social media. When you do, please include credit to Jullian Champenois. You can also include a link to his website, tag him on Instagram/Twitter (@julliannailluj), or mention his Youtube channel according to the content you make. Commercial content of any kind - ads, promoted videos, etc - is explicitly forbidden by these usage terms. Anything of this sort will require specific permission by Jullian. Please don't fuck around we love him. That's it! Thank you everyone for participating, reading, and enjoying this silly little project.

idk who this officer is but she reeks and is putting the entire case in jeopardy, could never imagine myself tolerating this sort of conduct;

Disco Sapphics Zine:

Gumroad

DISCO ELYSIUM - WHAT IF WOMEN THO

LEAFLET OF MUTUAL LONGING, POORLY MANAGED - 46 pages of emotional malpractice committed by middle-aged sapphic women. Held together by sheer

Not being able to call kim what he truly is in disco elysium makes me sad.

He is a silly billy.

Silly billy illy

Little silly willy billy illy man

Daba doop doop dead