Manfred Von Karma - Blog Posts
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Playing 1-4 rn, and I want to say; why does nobody talk about the fact that Manfred has TWO (biological) children?? but also the fact that not only does Franziska & Miles have a secret third sibling, BUT ALSO the secret third sibling has a 7y/o daughter, which means they also have a niece, which makes them an aunt and uncle?????? LIKE HELLO?!?!?!!?????????
Like why have I never seen at least one person mentioned this?????
Playing 1-4 rn, and I want to say; why does nobody talk about the fact that Manfred has TWO (biological) children?? but also the fact that not only does Franziska & Miles have a secret third sibling, BUT ALSO the secret third sibling has a 7y/o daughter, which means they also have a niece, which makes them an aunt and uncle?????? LIKE HELLO?!?!?!!?????????
Like why have I never seen at least one person mentioned this?????
von karma: NOOOOOO YOU CAN'T PROVE IT! YOU DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE!
phoenix wright:
ok ok ok so recently i've been playing through the ace attorney games (i haven't started three yet but i remember most of the plot bc of the anime) and for some reason i wanted to take a shot at what an "accurate" no DL-6 AU would look like! I just think it's interesting to see what might've actually happened if DL-6 never happened bc DL-6 is kinda the major butterfly effect in the AA world. Idk if i wanna make this an actual AU or just a ramble on how the series would be completely different without DL-6 lmao. We'll see! Maybe you guys decide :D anyway MAJOR AA TRILOGY SPOILERS AHEAD
I'll start with the characters. Gregory Edgeworth would still be alive, Miles would become a defense attorney & work with his father at his law firm. Phoenix would most likely pursue his artist career. Narumitsu/Wrightworth tbh would still happen bc they need to be canon PLEASE CAPCOM. Just that there would be no rivalry.
Anyway the Dahlia case would've been so different but also kinda the same without DL-6. It was because of DL-6 that Misty Fey left Kurain Village and Mia also left to become a defense attorney. Without Mia, it would've most likely only been Diego Armando taking on the first Dahlia case with Terry Fawles. Fawles would probably still commit suicide, and I believe Diego still would've investigated Dahlia further & gotten poisoned by her, but without Mia becoming a defense attorney & being killed by Redd White in 1-2, Diego would've never had a reason to become Godot so he probably would've stayed as a defense attorney. Furthermore, without Mia it most likely would've been Miles taking Phoenix as a client in 3-1 bc childhood friends never losing touch bc no DL-6 (you get the point lmfao).
Like, I think about maybe half the cases in the original trilogy would've NEVER happened if DL-6 never happened bc we would've never met Mia or Maya or Pearl, Yanni Yogi wouldn't need to take out his revenge, Von Karma wouldn't have been arrested, Franziska would've never wanted revenge so she most likely would've never come to Japanifornia, I think the only person that would never change is fucking LARRY and that's honestly the craziest part LMAO.
agh i'm getting kinda tired bc it's late so i'll probably finish this ramble tomorrow. there's so much I wanna talk about but my mind is going at like 1000 mph so I need to get my thoughts together lmfao
TLDR: DL-6 is the butterfly effect for the entire ace attorney world & many of the characters we know and love wouldn't even exist/be introduced if it weren't for it.
EDIT: removed the censor for suicide bc apparently tumblr is weird and idk how it works (please be nice ab me making mistakes next time I didn’t appreciate you guys basically yelling at me)
due to popular demand (two (2) random users on tumblr dot com)
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"We have to make sure you become realized as a first-rate prosecutor, don't we? .......It wouldn't be very interesting otherwise."
15 years of nightmare, and the end of the maze.
more gay people i dont feel like waiting to post them all
aaugh i hate citing sources *excruciatingly loud sounds of tearing metal combined with tortured human screams and fleshy hitting noises* ok that wasn't so bad actually..
I think Miles feeling like his father would be disappointed in him is far more interesting if he came to that conclusion by himself instead of being "taught" to believe so by an external factor or being somehow trained to be something Gregory would have "hated" (and let's be real, Gregory would not flip a switch and hate anybody for anything, let alone his son).
Miles feeling like this by himself means there was a moment of self-reflection, even if that reflection did not reach the actually correct conclusion. It offers opportunities to explore how his brain works, themes of survivors guilt and grief that linger long after dl-6. That's interesting! That's intriguing!
What do you get from deciding there was some grand plan to form him into "a person Gregory would hate" (despite the obvious problems with that logic in the first place)? Cartoon villainy I guess? That's not very fun to explore...
Prosecutor’s office AA1 vs AA6
This!! Especially the point about Miles becoming a prosecutor. In the original trilogy, he only ever cites DL-6 and his disillusionment with the system as the reason and he never grapples with it as something forced onto him by Manfred post AA1.
fanon rant.
i love fanon concepts but i hate how much they antagonize manfred.
phoenix tried to contact miles via letters, but he never responded? that's actually extremely interesting! the reason he didn't respond was because manfred had burnt letters phoenix sent? nowhere close to what happened in canon text.
franziska taught miles all the ropes of being a von karma, had him follow in her footsteps steps, and helped him fit in with the family? YES!!! I LOVE THAT!!! franziska did this because she knew miles wouldn't have survived the "abuse" from manfred otherwise? now you're just reaching.
miles became a prosecutor following his father's death because he felt betrayed by the system? that's actually canon! manfred was the main reason for this change and had groomed miles into believing all defense attorneys are untrustworthy and did this as a final "fuck you" to gregory? he literally has nothing to gain from that.
fanon concepts have great potential, especially when they build on canon, but i hate when they wildly reach at things that don't exist. headcanons are supposed to build on canon, and if not, acting like they are canon is just weird.
NO HATE TO THOSE WHO ENJOY THESE FANON CONCEPTS!!! NO HATE TO ABUSIVE MANFRED ENJOYERS!!! but you HAVE to understand that the headcanons and fanon you enjoy is simply that: a headcanon and fanon.
you are allowed to enjoy whatever you want, i just don't like being driven out of fandom spaces (which actually happened recently) because i don't think manfred von karma is a villain for things he didn't do.
manfred is a villain, there is no ignoring that, but he's a villain for murdering two innocent men, tasing two innocent people, and participating in the toxicity of the justice system, not because of fanon.
i don't want to start controversy, which is something i cannot believe i'm saying when im simply expressing an opinion, but i just felt really annoyed at it this morning. if you want to tell me why i'm "wrong" please do it respectfully, otherwise i'm not going to hear you out. i'm not here to change the minds of anyone who enjoys these concepts, i am just pointing out inconsistencies with these concepts and canon.
Sincerely yours,
Phoenix Wright.
Here’s our girl
Still not very good at digital art but I don’t mind how this one turned out :)
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Manfred von Karma!
Thank you for the ask <3 (to every else who sent me a character ask, I'm working on it :)
First impression
I actually never hated him or had strong feelings about him. I was introduced to AA through narumitsu fanfic but I knew I wanted to play the games so I avoided everything with spoilers, including everything Manfred. I guess I just thought of him vaguely as a villain and Miles' mentor/father figure.
Impression now
He's one of my favorite Ace Attorney characters. I have him at 4th but honestly, maybe he's 3rd now?? I have developed an attachment to this ridiculous evil man. I love him so much. I wish there was more canon content of him, but I think he's an interesting character with a lot of room for nuance.
Favorite moment
He doesn't really have many canon moments (and I haven't played AAI). But probably when he gloated Phoenix into cross-examining Polly the parrot and it's implied that he witness-coached a parrot. Manfred, you are an insane person.
Idea for a story
I just want to see a story where Manfred is force-fed a redemption arc. Like for example a no DL-6 AU where Gregory manages to get a Manfred properly investigated for forging evidence. But to ensure he doesn't get another penalty, Manfred tries to frame another prosecutor to throw Gregory off his trail.
Only, Manfred finds out that the person he is framing is actually guilty of forging evidence. Manfred has to follow through with his plan and gets dragged into working with Gregory. Gregory is surprised but grateful that Manfred has been so helpful in weeding out corruption in the prosecutor's office, and wants to befriend/ally with Manfred. Manfred is seething with hatred. (Oh and eventual Shingou :)
Unpopular opinion
Manfred as a character deserves a lot more nuance. There's... a lot to talk about but these are the three main things I have a strong opinion on:
1) He was a flawed parent and I think it's more interesting to explore those flaws than to just label him abusive for the sake of villainizing him.
2) It does not makes sense for Manfred to be sexist/homophobic/etc. Simply because I don't think he cares enough to hate a group of people like that. He is very rational, efficient, and his perfectionism is focused on his prosecuting career. If anything, he discriminates against defense attorneys (lmao).
3) Manfred didn't brainwash or force Miles into becoming a prosecutor. I'm sure Manfred was influential but Miles had his own reason to be a prosecutor that stemmed from DL-6. Miles was also always a perfectionist (the paper cranes thing) and the von Karma family brand of perfectionism just amplified it.
Favorite relationship
Shingou!! <3 (Gregory Edgeworth/Manfred von Karma)
Defense attorney/prosecutor ship, toxic enemies to lovers, doomed romance, or super slowburn (if no DL-6 AU), bitter courtroom rivals turned bickering old married couple (who still duke it out in court), co-parenting Miles and Franziska (before officially getting together).
Favorite headcanon
Manfred did love Franziska and Miles (in his own way). Regarding Miles, Manfred saw him as a symbol of his failures (the penalty Gregory gave him and the shot in his shoulder). So Manfred struggled a lot when he began to actually care about Miles. When Miles's perfect record was broken, Manfred saw it as a threat to his own perfection. (I hope that makes sense. I do need to think about this more to solidify the headcanon. I just love complicated von Karma family dynamics)
EVERYTHING YOU SAID YES
Notice that Miles never mentions following in MVK's footsteps or the "von Karma creed/blood/name" when talking about his motivations to prosecute. (Compared to Franziska who mentions it as soon as she is introduced in 2-2). Miles only talks about the DL-6 incident and his father's death and punishing himself in relation to why he became a prosecutor instead of a defense attorney.
Now I'm not saying Miles wasn't influenced by MVK, I'm sure he was. But ignoring the reasons that Miles explicitly tells us, and instead claiming brainwashing or abuse, is doing a huge disservice to both Miles's and Manfred's character.
Manfred is a petty, cowardly man who killed a man over a penalty and ruined Miles's life. And considering all the issues Miles and Franziska has, I believe he is also quite a flawed parent. Manfred being abusive, homophobic, sexist, etc however, is not canon (him calling Miles "worthless" is a mistranslation!!).
So yeah, I rest my case. Miles, Franziska, and Manfred are some of my favorite Ace Attorney characters and Manfred not being Pure Evil™️ honestly makes all the angst and pain so much more delicious.
“Manfred von Karma brainwashed Miles into becoming a prosecutor!”
*scratches head*
Not gonna lie, I was one of the people who believed in this claim until a friend told me otherwise and I started replaying Turnabout Goodbyes recently.
It's really wild to me how almost all of Manfred's mischaracterization can be tied back to Miles' mischaracterization from the AA fandom LMAO
Fandom telephone can be such a curse sometimes.
Honestly, to me Manfred seems like he would be too rational to spend time on hating a group of people like that. He's extremely obsessed with "perfection" and looking back on Turnabout Goodbyes, he's also ruthlessly efficient. He prides himself on finishing trials in mere minutes and when Phoenix exposes his crime, all he does it tell the judge to hurry up with putting him away. He only acts irrationally when his "perfection" is threatened, namely when he shot Gregory over a penalty. And he puts a lot of effort into regaining his composure (taking the only vacation of his career after his crime). And adding all that on top of everything OP said about him raising Franziska... Manfred being misogynistic just doesn't seem very consistent with canon.
It's really easy to hate Manfred if you love Miles or Franziska and there is nothing wrong with interpretations, but I would recommend taking a good look at the evidence in canon.
Kinda scared to post this, but this has been on my chest for years and I finally have a platform to air it out. I don’t understand people who think that manfred is misogynistic. I know it’s like the cool thing to do in the aa fandom to hate manfred for fanon reasons, but I think manfred being misogynistic is one of the most unrealistic ones for me. Especially since Franziska turning out to be, well, Franziska, indicates otherwise. Like, Franziska is a loud, outspoken, confident, man-hating lesbian with anger issues that scares tf out of people. Basically everything that men hate. If manfred was misogynistic he would’ve snuffed that out as soon as he could. But he doesn’t. Bc he lives for that shit. I highly doubt he would try to constantly bring her down bc she’s a woman and “manfred wanted a male heir” (a fanon idea I also don’t understand since the competition that she and miles had together was started between them, and not directly initiated by manfred at all). Franziska being the way the she is literally can’t be more fitting of Manfred’s ideal of a von karma.
I just think it’s funny that manfred raised an angry lesbian daughter, is supposedly a wife guy (aai2), and overall has never said anything directly misogynistic in the games and the aa fandom chose him to be the misogynist of all people just bc he’s a villain. Really feels like the only reason people do that is bc they hate him so much they pile quite literally every horrible human trait they can think of onto him, and not bc it’s actually justified based on his character….
Let's all come to the realization that it's Lotta who's been in their business from time to time, screwing everything up.
At Manfred's place on the damn lake, at Morgan's place, trying to find spirits, at Blaise's place, she's just wandered into his place for dark auctions.
THEY HATE HER WITH EVERY FIBER OF THEIR BEING.
i am of the firm belief that while manfred von karma was an asshole to miles and franziska, he genuinely loves franziska and had rare moments of showing that to her. manfred von karma was an awful person but he is still franziska’s papa.