Musing On Rogues And Knights

I was fiddling with that Calliope post for a few days in my drafts, but combined with what I've been repeating recently about "Caliborn's paradigm" I wonder if the point of classpect is to be interpreted?

obviously the aspects are symbols for fundamental concepts, and the point of a fundamental concept is whittling it down into something more real via interpretation (which is something we see in the comic, with Vriska thinking of Light as luck versus Rose thinking of fortune more in terms of fate)...

I suppose it could be argued that classes are the interpretations of the aspects, i.e. a Seer of Light inherently interprets "Light" differently to how a Thief of Light interprets it, but I think there's a level of fundamentality to a class as well. they represent fictional archetypes moreso than RPG classes (RPG classes themselves tend to represent archetypes of folkloric hero, but Sburb's classes take that a step or two further and, as such, a step or two more abstract); it's something I've only lightly touched upon before, but essentially, like the aspects, the classes are ideas that are open to interpretation by their very nature; while the platonically ideal concept of a "Prince" does exist out there, each individual Prince from each individual story is a totally different iteration, a different "interpretation" of the idea of a Prince.

I guess this is roundaboutly similar to the popular existing theory that each class is defined by a kind of keyword; the Prince and Bard are "destroyers", but it's up to interpretation what exactly that entails (as Calliope puts it, a destroyer of x is "one who destroys x, or caUses destrUction throUgh x"). in the same vein, Thieves and Rogues are "stealers", and so on; one major discipline of classpecting seems to be the scholarship of figuring out what the "keyword" is for every class pair.

but even that I find to be a bit too specific. because while Calliope certainly might interpret a Prince as a destroyer based on her observations of various Princes, in Caliborn's paradigm Prince is likely to mean something completely different. to Caliborn, there are "LOWLY PAGE[S]" and Lords whose "NOBILITY IS MANIFEST". he interprets classes as their literal meanings, the way Dirk thinks of a Prince as someone who "rule[s] over [their aspect] in a pompous, regal manner"; a way of thinking made manifest in the position of Princes in relation to Maids and Pages in Alternian society. because of course the opposite side of the "Homestuck characters are the audience" coin is that "Homestuck characters are the author". in the same way Calliope's interpretations of the classes are "true" because they line up with observable fact, Caliborn's interpretation of the classes is made true when he gains control over the narrative and is able to skew the reader's very ability to observe the facts. in Caliborn's own words, "IF I BELIEVE HARD ENOUGH [...] THEN THAT FACT BECOMES ABSOLUTELY INDISPUTABLE AS A PERMANENT MAN REALITY."

If Maids are creators, and Hope is associated with positive emotions, could a Maid of Hope have the power to summon a laugh track whenever they wanted?

Rule of Thumb: It's ALWAYS correct to use Classpect Powers for bad puns, references, and dumb jokes. 👀

The heart aspect is clearly connected with lions (the trolls’ heart player being Leo the lion, and the Prince of the aspect having the lion-headed God Yaldabaoth as a denizen), but I wonder if that means anything for any of the other aspects?

Maybe it’s lions for heart and dragons for mind?

The lion is the symbol of God, and is king of the land animals, while the dragon is the devil and the king of the skies. Nepeta is a lowblood who uses her physical strength instead of psychic powers, and Dirk is Homestuck’s resident manly dudebro machofighter, and Yaldabaoth is the God of the physical realm; meanwhile dragons are capable of a whole bunch of powers associated with psychics (laser eyes, telepathic communion) and Terezi was a master manipulator.

(of course, heart is the aspect of the soul, not the body, so part of a heart hero’s quest must be rejecting some of this focus on the physical aspect and becoming more spiritual; so I wonder what the equivalent of this is for mind heroes?)

ʜᴏᴍᴇꜱᴛᴜᴄᴋ: ᴛʜᴇ ᴛᴡᴇʟᴠᴇ ᴀꜱᴘᴇᴄᴛꜱ

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HD: Imgur Album

of course it could just be that Lord English is using his vast network of recooperacomputers to mine for calcoins

Vriska Serket, whose lusus constantly demands she feed it, received Cetus as a denizen, a monster known for eating every single fish on the Land of Light and Rain.

More obviously the number 8 is homophonic with the word ‘ate’ (and also takes the shape of the infinity, related to the ouroborous symbol depicting a snake eating itself), and in Homestuck’s symbology the sun - the symbol of the light aspect - is something that is meant to be ‘eaten’ by black holes.

Absolutely this. An aspect’s opposite/adjacent aspects are all related to it on a deep level.

Mind’s rationality + Breath’s heroism = Hope’s focus on justice in the test description, because justice is based on principles.

But at the same time, Blood = Organized religion (The Sufferer as a Jesus figure) and Heart’s romance are also related to Hope.

Space’s creation + Hope’s imagination = Mind’s emphasis on creativity in the test description.

And on the other hand, branching timelines are driven by Mind, and Mind’s rationality is linked to Rage’s hatred of false beliefs to produce a hatred of lies.

Hmmmst (Aspect Synthesis Theory)

Sorry, I had to get one in.  I’m considering that maybe the aspects are literally built out of each other. And so they are reducible/irreducible at the same time (which in hindsight sounds very homestuck).

Some examples would be: Light would be split into the aspects of space and doom as they are the two complimentary aspects on the aspect wheel. Which would make logical sense, since Light players are defined as “rule-breakers” and “resourceful” (being able to draw from their environment.) Light’s closeness to time on the aspect wheel positions it as an aspect of disparity, and thus allows them to navigate both space and the limits contained in those spaces, finding gaps in the rules. In contrast, Void would be a synthesis of Life and Time. It would make sense to be these two since time is connotated with the father and thus paternalism (which Equius is in alignment with, but also to an extent Roxy in her adoption of gendered norms as Mom Lalonde). Life would be the imposition of will onto others/force. Void is more aligned to the aspect of space, which is in opposition to time (disparity). And so, Void must be seen as having a perspective of homogeneity. The implication would be that void players don’t see disparities of time (how things change) which fits with their general rigid attitudes towards things, such as Roxy’s insistence on Dirk being gay despite gayness no longer being a relevant concept, or Equius’ insistence on the hemospectrum still being relevant. It’s my suspicion that all aspects are synthesized out of other aspects in this way, though the complimentary pairs of an aspect are the most prominent characteristics in a character. Whether or not an aspect is aligned with time or space (is it on the left or right side of the wheel) determines how an individual perceives reality (is reality fresh or new, or is it the same as it’s always been).   Lunar sway seemingly aligns with this view as Prospit dreamers (spatially oriented) are associated with the present and conformity to current norms, whereas Derse dreamers (musically/time oriented) are associated with the future and past. Difference/perception of reality as fluid may fuel their rebellion, even if their will is fixed. it’s ideas all the way down.

The Distinction Between Light and Rage (With Some Gushers)

One of the things I’ve seen come up in discussion about the aspects is some overlaps between them to varying degrees. One good example of this Light and Rage.  I think it’s pretty much consensus at this point that Rage = Truth or Revelations. But it gets really interesting when talking about Light because Light also presides over the concept of truth. Some people have tried to smooth over the similarities by saying that Rage is “emotional truths” or truths that make you feel bad, but I think it’s a bit more complex than that. I think the distinction between the two is as follows: Ragebounds are “correct” and Lightbounds are “right”. Generally speaking? What do I mean by this?  Well, for the sake of this post, I am defining “correct” as presenting facts or evidence, and being “Right” is possessing an understanding of the facts in such a way that allows one to provide new insights, or form new arguments. Ragebounds are a deconstructive aspect, as the Extended Zodiac states. 

The “true” objective reality that Ragebounds seeks is noted to be covered up by “lies” (something Hope would preside over as Hope is an aspect of illusions, and beliefs). For the rage bound, the truth is something that must already exist and is being covered up, and their primary goal is to rip and tear things to find their irreducibles. The cold hard facts.  The Extended Zodiac paints Lightbounds as the exact opposite in this regard: 

Where Ragebound pursue the facts to destroy faulty arguments, Lightbounds pursue facts to form new arguments. The EZ funnily describes them as “alchemists” linking them to the Sburb Mechanics of Alchemy, which utilizes a resource called “Grist” (which is substance used to back up an argument). 

The limitation of Lightbound’s relationship with Truth and a Ragebound’s is that a Lightbound constructs new perspectives, arguments, and grants themselves more options while eliminating the bad or unwise ones. Ragebounds use their evidence to deconstruct arguments and systems and get to the heart of the matter. But don’t ask them for solutions any fallouts or results of radical behavior. The end result being anarchy/confusion. “What the heck are we supposed to believe now?” everyone shouts. This dynamic may be in part influenced by their neighboring aspects Mind and Doom.  Light sits across from Mind on the EZ potentially indicating that some elements of Mind’s options, and lack of bias are carried over. Conversely, Doom is across from Rage indicating the limitation and narrowing down of options that Ragebounds experience as they discover and move towards the truth. 

I just had an epiphany on the Breath aspect, and how intricately it connects to the concept of ghosts/the afterlife

Literary Devices

Anonymous said:

(Me: sees your aspects as facets of reality theory and raises this: Aspects as elements of the story, Light as thematic importance (see aranea being aranea, vriska stealing importance and luck) Time as well pacing but also the timeline of a story. Ect ect       

YES!

YesYes!! YesYesYes ^u^ ^u^ ^u^

This is another Wonderful Frame for analyzing Homestuck, or thinking about the Aspects ^u^ The one thing I’d say is that while some –like Light, Time, Space, and Heart– are pretty directly and clearly related to literary concepts by the text, others are a bit more difficult to figure out; either because their representative characters get less “screen time”, or because the Literary Concepts the Aspect embodies are more esoteric and vague.

Like: I’ve always had a hard time figuring out what Life could represent in a Literary sense. Fef’s story is surrounded by all sorts of Fairy Tale tropes that she’s laser-focused on either escaping(her role as Princess) or subverting(bringing Sollux, her “Hero”, to life with a kiss, rather than the other way around), and Meenah was also focused on escaping and subverting the life planned for her, so THAT could possibly be Life’s Literary side: either subverting narrative, or the way characters can take on “a life of their own” when the author realizes they’d do C instead of the A they had planned for them, and how that can lead the plot in a whole different direction.

Blood’s another stumper for me in this regard …Though… taking a minute to think about it maybe it’s self-criticism? Like: Karkat is obvsl VERY self critical(in a way Kankri very much is not) but both of them are super-critical of the story-itself and the world Hussie, as author, has set it in. So you could think of Blood as being the Critical or Editorial Impulse? MAYBE??

And Breath’s a good example of an esoteric one. While John’s the protagonist, people are constantly telling him what to do in the narrative, and outside of it through the prompt(at least early in HS), so he’s rarely ever deciding anything for himself. His actions drive the story, but his actions aren’t “his”, so what exactly would that make Breath? Plot? Protagonists&Characters?? Is it something simpler and more obvs like Adventure Game Narratives??? Does it include all of these, or is it one thing that covers all of them?x4 Considering Rufioh with John, something you might call “The Irony of Protagonists” seem rather central to whatever Breath is: on the one hand they’re the “hero” of the story and their actions drive the plot; but on the other that also makes them the most controlled, puppeted, plot-significant, and thus least realistic&”free”, of all the characters in the story.

Rufioh(through many years of bad memory, obvsl, so maybe I’m misrepping this) was the center of the primary romantic drama in his Session(which in turn drove the Session), and many of his fellow Players either pursued him, or openly professed their attraction to him. In this respect, they saw him as sort of like the Protagonist of a Dating Sim. Seeing him as attractive they saw him as confident and a player; they cast a particular narrative and identity onto him based on their perspective of him. But that’s not how Rufioh experienced any of those events, or indeed his life. He felt powerless and disrespected throughout; pulled one way then another by both Horuss and Damara, constantly uncomfortable with the desires others expressed for him(and the disinterest of everyone in what he wanted), trapped by his social situation into conditions and roles he never really wanted, and always betraying himself and his own feelings through his lack of confidence, and the inability to take a stand it created. Even thousands and thousands of years later his friends are STILL giving him agency for events he felt were forced on him against his will, and casually hitting on him despite his clear discomfort with it seen in Meenah’s walkaround. So, while he is defined as the “Protagonist” of his story according to those “reading” and telling it, he felt like all he ever did was just what other people told him to do, and chafes against the identity others have forced on him, which he has no control over. In this respect, he experienced all of that as a “Target” of a Dating-Sim; to be dated and wooed, but with no agency of his own.

While much more extreme(and negative), that experience shares some notable qualities with John’s. It suggests that Breath might be “The Illusion of Freedom” literary characters have, and Rufioh’s story suggests audience collaboration is a pivotal aspect of this illusion.

Wow, that kinda got a bit grim, didn’t it |:T |:T