The Iliad - Blog Posts

average odysseus experience

Y’all are too talented.

But never let me die without a struggle and without acclaim

pretty

My Athena design based on some descriptions in the Iliad. What God should I design next?

“So the twain bethought them of their dead, and wept; the one for man-slaying Hector wept sore, the while he grovelled at Achilles’ feet, but Achilles wept for his own father, and now again for Patroclus; and the sound of their moaning went up through the house.”

[translation by Augustus Taber Murray]

Achilles from those five (5) verses in the Iliad during which he was actually just chilling 

Referring to sarafangirlart’s previous tags

I always saw it as obsession. Whether you hate or love or whatever didn’t really matter. Whatever you felt either drove you to madness with the want to destroy or with the craving to have their amino acids and lipids buried within your body, a part of you.

Not saying your interpretation is wrong at all! Metaphors are flexible. I just like yapping :3

It came to me in a vision

New Patroclus design maybe

Fifty Days at Iliam: The Fire The Consumes All Before It

Cy Twombly, 1978

Oil, oil crayon, and graphite on canvas

Photo taken from the Philadelphia Museum of Art

Awesome analysis as always girl!! ✨✨

This is a very worthy subject to discuss let alone in such epic pieces. Once again it shows how both the Iliad and the Odyssey portray the Gods as symbolism not only of nature's forces, but also of the struggles and disasters humans must go through, in this case in the form of diseases brought forward in a form of punishment from certain actions.

It's also quite a tragic mix with war and post war situations since fighters are exposed to rough, many times unsanitary, and overcrowded environments which become a breeding ground for such desieses, and if they are already weakened by wounds and other problems, the possibilities for death grows.

Very good observation in the type of bacteria and plagues! In the mythological sense this is also quite the low and efficient blow from Apollo, to first strip them of their guard and transportation animals, and then strike the people themselves, it's scary how his attacks are described in the form of his arrows! And realistically this is indeed a good point to how such diseases affect humans and spread, becoming airborne from the animals to the people.

Those are a scary combination of symptoms as well especially as they progressively get worse, it must be pure suffering and agony to die like this! It must have felt like hell for the soldiers. Also interesting connection with Palamedes and how a good cardio system is valuable to survive the disease.

Again a very good observation, the losses from diseases should definitely be counted as losses of the war because even if they didn't die in the battle itself it was still a very direct result of it, especially since it hit the Greek side in this context. Also curious indeed that they were the most affected!

And for real I can imagine even the highest ranking and some kings were not spared at least some effects of the illnesses. Especially if they were less vigorous or weakened by some other factors. That analysis of Helen and Menelaus is awesome as well ✨ and it certainly explains how certain demographics were safer from it.

Oh gosh this is definitely a great reference and inspiration for our story and the narrative regarding the war and the rebels (and even the enemy soldiers) and surrounding people dealing with the illnesses in war camps and their very harsh conditions! Definitely the dark reality of how the fighters are not safe after the battles are over, and can still pretty much succumb to such horrible situations of plagues and diseases! Man now I feel like drawing something about this! 👀✨

The Iliad Plague

Honestly I am disappointed at how little we talk about the Iliad plague that was sent by Apollo in the first rhapsody of the Iliad to the Greeks after Chryses, Apollo's priest, begged for justice for the disrespect Agamemnon showed him plus the fact that his daughter was not returned to him.

"First he stroke the mules and the swift dogs but then he shot his shafts to the humans themselves and the funeral pyres were burning non-stop and crowded and for nine days the army was being assaulted by the God's arrows"

(Translation by me)

So we basically get that the plague spread to animals first and then swiftly passed to humans and it became deadly very quickly.

It seems like a classic case of an assault of the bacteria Yersina which is responsible for three major plagues; the bubonic, septisemic and pneumonic plagues. All three seem to be associated with transmission from animals to humans. In this case my random guess would be that this would be the case or a pneumonic plague. It transmits from the breathing of fumes and it is much easier transmittable from one person to another given that both other plagues require the mix of bodily fluids. Since the disease seems to strike animals commonly not associated with food like mules or dogs it seems more probable the disease was of a lung nature.

The main symptoms of a pneumonic plague are:

Fever

Headaches

Shortness of breath

Chest pain

Intense coughing

Hemoptysis (aka "coughing out blood")

It seems indeed highly probable that the plague was of such nature which would lead to a large number of soldiers suffer from headaches and fever which gradually got worse and added coughing chest pain and coughing out blood (the other plagues have also intense vomiting-boubonic- and blood infection -septisemic-). Various post-homeric and mainly early Roman sources speak on the contributing of Palamedes suggesting better diet and exercise countering the effects of the plague or preventing it. Although traditionally we know plagues can be effectively cured with the use of antibiotics it is probable that the mention of cardio exercise could be a wink that a good cardio system can defend itself against lung diseases.

Either way it surprises me that the losses of war when studied rarely mention the results of this plague since many people count only the deaths in battle and not this which is ironically the only set of deaths seemingly affecting only the Greek side. It is interesting given how many times cities being surrounded by armies are the first to suffer from diseases rather than the people outside (although both sides suffer eventually from diseases). Realistically speaking we do understand why we see so many mentions of diseases.

And again when it comes to the sequel Odyssey as well, very few people consider not only the losses Odysseus undoubtedly suffered in battle but also one should expect he lost a man or two from the plague as well (mind you I can easily imagine some kings also being affected by it at least at early stage especially the less vigorous such as Nestor because of age or Menelaus if we take my headcannon that he probably was a bit frail of health later as I mentioned to the post tagging @thehelplessmortals which could indeed back up more how careful Helen was with him since plagues do affect massively the health of lungs or heart permanently

More vigorous and fighting fit characters like Achilles or Diomedes or Odysseus and Agamemnon seemed less likely to have been stroke by the plague. Achilles is also the one who calls upon council of kings to find a solution.

☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

During my collaboration with @artsofmetamoor I always entertain the thought of disease to the various war camps. Disease would often be the most common way soldiers died instead of battles.

In our stories our characters suffer a lot of many things but this also makes me do a note to self to refer more on plagues or diseases

Perfect 😂 (and here I was gathering Atlantis references for other reasons 😆 amazing!)

Didn't even hesitate or try to hide it a little bit, it's all about the good business 😂 Poor Odysseus just wants to sneak out to go home, he can't with these people anymore hahaha

Sorry I just couldn't resist!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Don't you tell me this wasn't perfect?! Hahaha like come on everyone thought of that! 😂 (inspiration from Paris The Musical song "Business" because I just heard that specific song for the lolz 😆)

Oh gosh perfect close for this part girl ❤️❤️✨

The way it starts with Odysseus putting his loved ones in place of the slaughtered and grieving ones 😢 Astyanax, Priam and Adromache as his own son, father and wife, gosh he really is putting himself in their shoes feeling the suffering he has caused them....

And now he curses all the people and chain of events which have brought him into this war, and made him lead this great massacre released upon the people of Troy... Such a tragic figure that now has to bear the weight of the blood that was spilled, as always you express his frustration in the best way possible!

Is Polites worried for Odysseus being alone drunk, or is there some other danger for him to be alone at this moment? Maybe seeing his great grief mixed with it all adds to the concern because Odysseus surely must be quite a messy sight at this point... The way he says he's tired of being wise...

The detail of mixing the wine with water is such a great addition, as it shows how much Odysseus wants to drown in the alcohol to forget all this nightmare for he wants to drink it all pure and strong...

Oh gosh poor guy, you surely described his post shock of the war so well, the way he can't sleep, yet he's so restless and tired... He must be seeing the bloodbath each time he closes his eyes, and the way he just falls apart in puddles of tears pulling his own, probably sweat soaked, hair 😭

Man the way he begs for his family, maybe because of all the post trauma for the war and not wanting it to be reflected on his family, but maybe also all the acts that his comrades have committed that were considered blasphemous and so he is afraid that the Gods will release their wrath upon his family as punishment? Either way gosh the way he begs and the way he keeps repeating that he just wanted to go home is so heartbreaking... The price he took for all that he has done is breaking him apart in the middle of a desperate prayer 😢😢

The way Menelaus and Agamemnon go in and start praising him immediately completely contrasts with Odysseus weak and sarcastic response! He calls himself liar schemer and trickster with sarcastic aversion! And he considers his drunken state just one more shame! The poor guy really can't stand himself at this moment which you so well and sadly pointed out by him not knowing what to tell his wife and son after this...

And I really like how you described the others so perplexed with Odysseus reaction after the plan worked so well, and yet for Odysseus it didn't work well at all, at least not as he wanted with this level of suffering and so much blood that will never leave him...

I also loved how Agamemnon tried to speak yet couldn't face Odysseus eyes right afterwards! The way he makes him remember the wrath of the Gods really put some more thought into him, as well as him being reminded of their own losses of people like Achilles in the war. I really love when the dark sides of battles are portrayed this way!

The way Odysseus asked if this was all worth it, and what the Trojans actually did to deserve such a fate really made him jump and blame all of this talk in his drunken state! But in a way it seems it's because he himself doesn't want to think about it much, that he's avoiding facing the same void that Odysseus is contemplating! And Agamemnon can't face that these people were indeed also just trying to defend themselves and their land.

Menelaus seems to be indeed much more sympathetic and soft with Odysseus which clearly helps a lot, I like it how he doesn't want him to melt away in his demons like that and that he doesn't want him to blame himself for what others have done. The way Odysseus says he will take part in the celebration seems so sarcastic as well... yet a bit soft. And the way Menelaus says he won't mention his state to anyone! Poor guy must really look bad!!

I also like how Odysseus is so dismissive of the spoils, not really denying them but saying he will accept whatever, because he really is suffering with what was done to this place and people, he's ashamed so he doesn't want to relish himself in gains... And also because of past experiences, the poor guy is even weak in his jokes now!

It's very heartwarming how Odysseus badmouths himself claiming his lack of honor yet Menelaus tells him that for him he's the greatest of Greeks, it clearly touched Odysseus too and gave him at least some comfort in the middle of all the chaos and conflicted emotions he's going through... Aww his weak smile and that fact he only needed someone to acknowledge his suffering and he himself as a person is very deep ❤️ the small words sometimes speak the loudest.

Gosh and it ends with poor Odysseus thinking that he's finally going home after so much time and struggles, such a cruel fate for this poor man!!

"Stoping a king seems impossible, God help us with two." That's great hahaha so sweet to see his humour returning a bit! This is a perfect close to the beginning of fic, for he finally is able to rest and sleep thanks to the words of his companion ❤️

The ride was fantastic dear! You always outdo yourself with your writing! Always fantastic and so expressive with the scenes and character! Amazing work ✨✨❤️❤️💖💖

I commented on this before but I love how you have chosen the version where Neoptolemus throws the baby instead and has this tension with Odysseus!! I also don't see Odysseus as a baby killer but like I said before I see Caleb so much in Odysseus that it just became a reference, so that's probably why 😂😂

Oh gosh the girl being sacrificed like that at Achilles tomb is a damn gruesome detail! Can definitely see why it seems it is from the Trojan's perspective of things 😆 her caring for his tomb instead is much softer. Poor Odysseus did try his best to spare who he could...

I did know that mixing wine with water was common practice but didn't know it was unusual to drink wine without being mixed unless it was for dipping bread, that's very interesting!

I really liked the conflict between Odysseus and Neoptolemus, the way you made them be a contrast to each other was great ✨

Oh gosh yes the beaten up arrogant, almost crippled ugly guy that probably shouldn't even go to war in the first place 😂😂 and now being used as a threat hahaha

And of course the way Neoptolemus grabbed Odysseus by the balls with the death of Palamedes!

And Adromache didn't want or needed to hear any more...

Gosh the baby calling him papa was definitely the peak of it all, it was such a good and heartbreaking addition 😭

Oh boy with that comparison to that Tudors scene I can definitely imagine her distress as she screams for her lost baby 💔

Like I said above I really liked how you made Odysseus not want to get involved with the choices of the spoils it really shows his negative feelings towards the results of this war! And the way you portrayed his friendship with Menelaus is very touching indeed with those last words of encouragement ❤️

Once again fantastic work girl, truly great ✨✨✨💖💖💖🥰🥰

Continuing from Part 2

Guilt (P3 + Footnotes)

"Odysseus" Meriones approached him, "Are you alright?"

Odysseus winced in pain. He hadn't realized he had clenched his fist so hard that it hurt him. He unclenched it.

"Yes..." he whispered, "Yes, I'm fine..."

Odysseus moaned. That baby...the look at that infant's face...Astyanax was gone...he had given his place to Telemachus. Priam's slain face was Laërtes...mourning Andromache was his wife... He grasped his head with both hands.

"Damn you Neoptolemus! Damn you Helen for starting it! Damn you Menelaus for dragging me into this... Damn you Palamedes! Damn you all! Why should I have taken this blood upon me?! Why did it have to be me?!"

He sighed.

"Polites...I want to be alone for a little while..."

"Do you think that is wise...?" Polites asked with hidden meaning.

"Wise!" Odysseus voiced like an echo, "No, perhaps not but I got tired of being wise for now..."

Polites sighed.

"At least add some water to your wine...please Odysseus"

Odysseus dismissed him with a move of his hand. He wasn't much in the mood for anything at that moment. He knew war wouldn't be pleasant but these events of just one night were taking the cake. He was exhausted; sleepless for two nights and a full day and right now the Sacker of Cities, the Man of Many Ways was terrified. He collapsed again and his tears overflowed from his eyes, wetting the table below. He grasped his wet hair with his fingers as if he was ready to uproot them.

"Gods! Please Athena, please, I beg of you...if you love me...p-protect my son! Let the miasma fall on me! Not him! I-I...I just wanted to g-go home! I just wanted to see them again...my Penelope...my Telemachus...! I-I never meant for this to happen! P-Please...! I beg of you if you love me...p-protect my son! Don't let the gods' wrath fall upon their heads! P-Please...! F-Forgive me! I...I just...I just wanted to go home!"

He couldn't decide what to pray for first... Words cascaded out of his mouth without any coherent way or syntax. He only prayed desperately, wetting with his tears the table. Sun was already setting and Troy was taken...but at what cost...

*

Menelaus and Agamemnon entered Odysseus's hut one after the other.

"I gotta give it to you, Odysseus!" Agamemnon said, "You WERE telling the truth when you said you could take Troy in one night!"

Odysseus was collapsed upon his chair, looking at them with an unreadable expression to his face. The jug was resting empty somewhere after the feet of his seat.

"Hm..." he hummed, "That's me. I am the trickster, remember? I lie, I scheme and I trick. That is what I do"

Agamemnon raised a brow.

"Are you drunk?!" He asked in disbelief

"One more shame to add to the events of this night..." Odysseus replied bitterly.

"Shame? I do not understand. We finally sacked the city. You can finally go home."

"Home..." Odysseus whispered, "I wonder...what shall I say to Penelope when she asks? Or Telemachus? If he asks 'father what did you do and you were away?', 'I was at war, my son', 'did you fight honorably and sack many cities?'... What shall I say for what we've done...?"

"I do not understand you Odysseus. It was your idea"

"Yeah somehow I do not doubt it..." Odysseus mumbled bitterly, "I was wrong, Agamemnon. This was not what I imagined...what I planned..."

He sighed shifting his position a bit to his chair.

"Priam is dead, you know that..."

"Yeah, like we expected to-..."

"On the altar. On the freaking altar, Agamemnon..."

"Yeah I heard..."

"Imagine that happening to any of us...in our homelands. If one cannot respect the holy laws then what?"

He played a bit with his empty cup.

"Priam murdered on the altar...Cassandra raped mercilessly and now Ajax looks for shelter to the very same altar he dragged her out of, to avoid being stoned to death..." the king of Ithaca rubbed the bridge of his nose, "...death...death and fire everywhere..."

"Odysseus..." spoke Menelaus, "I understand that you are grieving, it was not easy or pleasant but..."

"The boy...he was the same age as my son! Thrown off the wall..."

"Odysseus" Agamemnon spoke again, "I honestly don't understand you. Others would fly from joy with your glory. You had a good plan and it worked. Thanks to you we can all go home."

Odysseus's eyes became bottomless. Even Agamemnon had to lower his gaze against it.

"The blasphemy put us under the anger of gods, Agamemnon. Remember that. Listen..."

Agamemnon seemed like indeed trying to listen something.

"The Trojans are not the only ones mourning. We lost many good men too. We lost Achilles. Or have you forgotten?"

Agamemnon sighed deeply.

"His loss...was tragic indeed" he finally said, "we had our differences but his loss was a great price..."

"Quite so..." Odysseus whispered, "was it really worth it? The price we had to pay to sack Troy?"

He shifted his weight to his chair lethargically. He rubbed his forehead with his free hand for a second. The dizziness bad settled for real in his brain. He leaned his head back again, earning a small cracking sound from his neck.

"And since we are at it, I have a question for you, Agamemnon, son of Atreus, the first among the Greeks... What did the Trojans REALLY do to us to deserve such an end?"

"You're drunk! You don't know what you're talking about!"

Odysseus snorted humorlessly.

"Oh, I am drunk, alright. But I know exactly what I am talking about. And you do too. They took Helen, sure, or at least one of them did. But their real crime against us was that they protected their lands...from us. That's what we would have done as well..."

Agamemnon was ready to speak again but Menelaus stopped him.

"Brother, that's enough"

He then turned ti Odysseus sympathetically.

"Look, Odysseus, I understand that it hurts and I am sorry too that I put you through that indirectly, but please do not melt away. No matter what the actions of others was not your choice."

Odysseus said nothing. He only sighed.

"Will you join us at the games later? You are the hero of the day. Your presence is asked for."

Odysseus scoffed.

"Oh I will be there, alright. I never miss a good party!"

Menelaus smiled sadly.

"Thank you, Odysseus...for everything. I really mean it... I will see you later, when you sober up a little..."

He looked at his friend and added;

"And...we shall mention none...of this" he pointed at him indicating his condition.

Odysseus soullessly nodded as if wanting to attempt some humor.

"Thanks...I appreciate it"

Agamemnon was ready to say something but apparently he decided against it. He only sighed and turned to leave before finally asking;

"Will you come to take a pick from the spoils? You deserve it given it was thanks to you we got in"

The tired king made a dismissive move with his hand.

"No. I'm fine with whatever. Just include me to the next lottery" he replied indifferently

"Are you sure? You deserve a better share"

Odysseus smiled humorlessly.

"Last time I chose and defended my choice, we lost Aias the Telamonian. I think we lost enough for one decade, don't you think?"

It was a failure of attempt for humor and he knew it but Agamemnon only sighed.

"Suit yourself" he said defeated, heading for the exit

Menelaus was about to do the same but apparently something made him stop and turn around.

"Odysseus?"

"Hm?"

"Thank you...truly... You gave me back my honor

Odysseus snorted again.

"With the cost of mine..." he whispered bitterly, "Not that anyone ever thought I had any..."

The king of Sparta, though, shook his head negatively.

"To me you will always be the greatest of all Greeks"

The man who endured all torments looked up and for the first tike a small smile rose to his dry lips. That word of kindness was what he needed for his tormented heart to feel some sort of hope. At least there was finally one who neither blamed him nor glorified him. Menelaus saw his torment and responded. That was enough.

"Thank you..." he whispered

Menelaus nodded his head in return.

"Now rest, my friend. We have a long way before us...we are going home..."

Home...the tormented king of Ithaca thought. Yes, finally they could go home. After 10 endless years they could finally embrace their families. Just few more months of journey and Odysseus could finally go home... All he had to do was to learn to live with what he did... He watched both the kings through his cloudy vision, getting out of his tent and Polites coming back in.

"I am sorry, Odysseus! I couldn't stop them!"

Odysseus dismissed him with a hand gesture once more.

"Don't sweat it, Polites. Stopping a king seems impossible. Gods help us with two!"

Polites smiled softly. At least he would gain some of his humor back, he thought.

"Help me get to my bed, Polites..." sighed Odysseus hoarsely, "I need to rest... I am very tired..."

~~~~

Oh gosh what have I done?! Hehehehe well not sorry...not really! 😆 I hope you enjoyed this ride.

As you see I tried incorporating some of the Epic Cycle to the situation but I did tamper around with the timeliness. The Epic Cycle is a lovely mess anyways and holds many contradictions with the homeric poems but it includes many things.

Now the fragmentary poem Iliou Persis is sven mentioned how Odysseus throws Astyanax off the walls but most sources have Neoptolemus donit and I do agree with those more. Now in Trojan Women by Eurypedes the messenger Talthybius tells Andromache that Odysseus schemed so that her son would be thrown off the walls and that he persuaded the Greeks they couldn't raise the baby. Odysseus doesn't strike much as a baby killer in Odyssey or even the Iliad although he is known for being cruel in his punishments (see the excecution of the 50 conspiring slave girls) but nowhere jn Odyssey does Odysseus refer to that fact even if he does speak of his regrets for other actions of his and if he HAD thrown Astyanax off the walls himself I doubt he wouldn't have made any reference to it so I believe that Iliou Persis should he treated like Telegony when it comes to the homeric poems; a bit contradictory to the homeric epics (unless there is some lost fragment that tells us how Odysseus went on a rampage he could not remember lol 😆 ) so I made a mixture of all the above to show how Odysseus "killed" Astyanax or subconsciously persuaded the Greeks to do it and I added the role of Talthybius here too.

Iliou Persis seems to also be the most violent form when it comes to the Greek side such as that they offer Priam's daughter Polyxene to Achilles's tomb as a sacrifice, thus causing the rage of Athena (I swear the thing was written by a Trojan lol 😆) Eurypedes mentions how Polyxene was offered as slave to Achilles symbolically so she should serve his tomb. I also added the detail of Odysseus trying to persuade Neoptolemus to choose her as his price to speak Andromache but his attempts are a failure.

Drunkenness was severely discouraged in ancient geeece thus the concern in Polites's words when Odysseus uses it as a coping mechanism for the traumatic events of the night. Moreover the Greeks always mixed their wine with water (thus having the modern name for wine in Greek κρασί which comes from the verb in ancient greek which means "to mix") the wine that was not watered was called άκρατον and it was qlmost never consumed unless dipped in bread. The analogy between wine and water depended.

In this story I depict Neoptolemus as somehow a nemesis to Odysseus. Similar to what Agamemnon or Hector were for Achilles. I have no idea why but the idea stuck with me especially since the two are the two candidates for the murder of Astyanax. Somehow I imagined them again as the polar opposites thus the two of them having tension.

Odysseus mentions Thersites who was beaten really badly by him in the Iliad. In other sources it is mentioned that Odysseus has him stoned to death after Theraites attempts treason. In this story Thersites was already dead.

I know that for Palamedes the most famous version of his end comes from Hygenius who writes how Odysseus frames him for treason. However Pausanias mentions from the Epic Cycle that Palamedes drowned at a fishing expedition and that "he believes the murderers were Odysseus and Diomedes". 🤔 somehow I wanted to use a lesser known version plus give a bit room to doubt for instance did Palamedes really fell by accident and Odysseus is guilty for not helping? Or perhaps Odysseus pushed him? Maybe he held him under? Dunno. Leave it to your imagination. I know is not so spicy as the framing story but bare with me hehehe

Talthybius here simply hears "it was Odysseus who planned it" thus sending that information yo Andromache without the rest of the details..

Astyanax uttering a word was totally random. If he were an infant a few months old or almost a year old in Iliad that means he would be around 1 to 1.5 years old when Troy fell so I thought it would be more impactful if the poor baby uttered a word before his end.

The interaction with Andromache was placed there for the dramatics and the impact. When Andromache screams "MY BOY!" I was inspired by the series "The Tudors" when Anne Boleyn laments her final miscarriage (by the way I think Natalie Dormer would make an amazing Andromache!)

The story with Palamedes was also added to make the connection between two mothers and their impact to Odysseus. Plus I thought it would make more sense if Odysseus was furious not only for being embarrassed or that he has to go to war but because Palamedes put his son in danger. (Of course Penelope would be part of that scheme!)

Odysseus refusing to participate at the choice of spoils was just a random detail but as a general rule from Eurypedes it seems that he eats the old Ekavi (Hecuba) as his slave (probably she would be to serve Penelope( so I imagined Odysseus wouldn't want to choose but getting whatever would be lucky for him to further implicate that he wouldn't want anything further to do with the war. He also mentions the incident when Telamonian Aias (aka the great Ajax) went mad when Odysseus won Achilles's armor from him and then he killed himself in shame.

I also wanted to portray the friendship between Menelaus and Odysseus which seems to be really strong since Menelaus always talks with the warmest words for Odysseus.

For further questions and analysis please ask me to the comment section or reblog etc!

I wanna also tag some of my best friends commenters rebloggers etc! Thank you guys! Sorry if I forget anyone!

@loco-bird @aaronofithaca05 @tunguszka20 @doob-or-something @jarondont @prompted-wordsmith @simugeuge @fangirlofallthefanthings

clarisse is so achilles because achilles is actually kinda horrible and selfish the whole time but in the end it’s his love for patroclus that shows that he’s just a person after all. clarisse is not nice and she is selfish but she still loved so deeply… 🥺

I completely agree with you, and you are absolutely correct when saying that Odysseus is not the only one Athena favors. She obviously favors a lot of heroes given that she is the goddess that guides most heroes. Terribly sorry if I implied she favors Odysseus only. There's Diomedes, Achilles, Perseus, and then some.

My favorite Athena moment aside from all this is when she helps Diomedes who I honestly believe aside from Odysseus is the only hero she favors quite so highly given that she blessed him with such power; he literally managed to wound Aphrodite all on his own with just Athena's blessing so it obviously shows her favor. I just meant that she favors Odysseus the most out of any and all heroes for all the aforementioned reasons.

I am so glad to see someone with knowledge of actual Odyssey and Iliad agree with some of the points I have made. (I myself want to read those but am swamped with study)

I am obsessed with Epic, the musical as all people are and should be.

One of my absolute favorite parts (I love everything about it, the lyrical genius, the phenomenal melodies, the best cast) about the Saga itself is Athena and Odysseus's relation.

There are lots of opinions on how Athena doesn't treat Odysseus as a person but as a property, which I think is slightly misinterpreted. Odysseus is the only one in the whole Greek mythology to be so favored by Athena. She sees her very self reflected in him and hence sees him as an extension of herself given that she takes time and effort to teach Odysseus everything she can.

Yes, Odysseus gets ahead of himself and gets sentimental of sorts, but in the end, the mistake that causes his initial falling out with her is also something that mirrors Athena. Hubris is Athena's fatal flaw, and it's the same for Odysseus.

Athena's greatest ability is critical thinking in the heat of the moment, something Odysseus himself lives by and represents.

Gods are not flawless. No, they are every bit flawed, and deep deep down, they know it.

To Athena Odysseus giving into his flaws is a slap to the face because despite knowing her own and knowing how Odysseus reflects hers, she fails to make him overcome it.

He is also perhaps the only person to have insulted Athena to her face and lived to tell the tale without any repercussions because she knows he tells the truth but most of all because she accepts that if anyone has the right to reprimand her its Odysseus someone who has lived by her principles.

Even after their falling out, Athena defends him against the Olympians, and despite everything, Odysseus does his best to stick to Athena's teachings and doesn't hate her.

Athena does her best to advice Telemacus and even calls him her friend.

Throughout the Greeks myths, it is cemented that Athena and Odysseus had a strong relationship and were equals more so than a hero and his patron

The most ironically beautiful thing was that I was rereading Percy Jackson and Heroes of Olympus books to find Odysseus references through Mark of Athena and the part where Annabeth finds Athena at the subway, lost and frazzled,turned into Minerva due to the Roman and Greek demigods being together.

Minerva is nothing like Athena, she is Athena who is bitter and enraged and consumed with vengeance against the Romans who attacked her city and turned her into a just a Goddess of Wisdom and Crafts taking from her the domain of war and strategy. And in this emotionally heightened, unstable state that goes against her very nature, Annabeth hears her mumbling, "If Odysseus were here, he would know the way, he would know how best to help.."

And that to me is so raw and beautiful that in this terrible state that's basically a mental breakdown, The Goddes of Wisdom and Strategy thinks that Odysseus would be able to help. A mortal, yes, a great hero but still a mortal, and help in what? In guiding Athena herself as she tries to find her way back to her place of power, in guiding the lost goddess of wisdom.

Through the whole Percy Jackson series, it is repeatedly iterated how Odysseus is Athena's most and all-time favorite.

I also like how those books portray Odysseus as he was, a great hero and the most loyal husband.

I just had to rant on this. It's kept me awake for so long.

“i. when my blood spilled down the temple steps, were you glad? when my wedding robes dripped scarlet, did you regret it, or did you smile, as the beat of my heart soared and sputtered and then stopped? as i bled out on your altar stone? was it worth it? ii. when your poets told my mother i died willingly, did you force yourself into believing it? old man, when they said a deer was sent to take my place, did you remember the way i bled out in front of you, or did you imagine a doe’s eyes and hooves made for running? did you imagine anything at all? iii. when you won your war, did you think of me then? when the streets filled with crimson, heavy as monsoon rain, did you think of my sacrifice, my life, laid down at your feet? did your men hold a vigil? do you even remember? iv. father, i do. father, i remember everything. father, i remember the way my eyes felt heavier with each wine-red drop. i remember the way your armies cheered as i lay dying, as the wind lifted the sails of your ships, and i was forgotten. father, i did not die willingly. father, the dead do not forget. father, i am waiting.”

— iphigenia, vengeful | m.c.p

"Name one hero who was happy"-

Heroes are warriors whose hands are painted red with the blood of thousand of innocent people. Maybe that's why they turned mad. Maybe that's why they never got a happy ending.

iliad tumblr simulator

🦉 ithacasfavguy Follow

boss is asleep. currently on a quest to steal some wine

🦉 ithacasfavguy Follow

stop reblogging this i'm gonna get caught you fuckers

#/srs

(729 notes)

🌻 achilles Follow

hahaha it would be so funny if i got so deathly drunk my hot doctor boyfriend had to escort me to the infirmary and pin me down so i dont end up stabbing someone and holding me by the hair to force my chin up and make me drink medicine hahahahaha

#please #pleaseee #i am so gay rn

(2,486 notes)

🚬 menelaghh Follow

i miss my wife

(215 notes)

🦢 helen Follow

currently having the time of my life. everything is great. except my new husband. i hope he dies

#captive princess life

(8,632 notes)

🐌 patrokloss Follow

never thought id have to say this but please do not try to make homemade wine with random shit you find on the woods ?? a guy just died

#psa #medicine

(371 notes)

👤 hektoroftroy Follow

guys im gonna be honest the worst thing to ever happen in my life was my brother coming back

🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow

:((

👤 hektoroftroy Follow

you are literally on my DNI. this is your fifth account. please go away

(420 notes)

💪 jaxajax Follow

why are all the animals coughing to death?

#is this normal #vets of tumblr answer me

(13 notes)

🦦 die-a-medes Follow

these trojans ain't shit 😂😂😂 we'll be winning this easy fr

🦦 die-a-medes Follow

girl help it's been ten years

(824 notes)

👁 cassssandra Follow

being haunted by visions can be very fun actually

#therapist told me to be positive #trying

(5 notes)

🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow

hello

🐭 parisbutitsnotfrance Follow

stop telling me to kill myself???

(8,753 notes)

🌻 achilles Follow

i hope you nerds name men on men attraction after me when i die

#if this doesnt happen then what is the point

(10,942 notes)

Okay I'm really hyped for Epic the Musical atm so heres what I'd go feral over in a potential Iliad musical

Polites developing the Open Arms ideology

Ody lamenting about missing his wife and wanting to go home ("penelopeee~")

PATROCHILLES????

Pre-Epic Ody and Athena interactions

Peri and Elpenor possibly getting more screen time

Palamedes's "betrayal" and possibly learning that Ody had a darker side that was closed off after the Trojan war and then CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT

Loose adaption so unknown plot threads that will only be revealed during streams or smth

Helen and Paris dramaaa????

A song for Helen's suitors being pick-me's ("Pick me, choose me, love, Me")

Idk ixll update more later

Glaucus: *killing Greeks and even wounding Aphrodite*

*Sees Diomedes*

Glaucus: You know what, I'm good.

The Iliad is insane. Like batshit crazy. I'm only on book 4 so far. Its chaotic af

- More 💖drama💖 than any soap opera.

- Achilles asking his mom to kill everyone just cos they upset him

- Achilles Daddy Issues!

- Achilles & Patroclus seem cute in theory, but ACHILLES DOESN'T DESERVE PATROCLUS.

- Thetis is a mafia mommy, literally every God owes her.

- hera just like if I kill ur fav city, u can kill mine

- Helen literally calls herself a slut

- Hector calls his brother paris: "sex crazed seducer", & "should never have been born" & "disgrace"

- We love Hector.

- ACHILLES IS A DISNEY PRINCESS!!!!!

- Ares just vibin in all the death.

- we live to be as petty as Eris

- almost all female characters are girlboss, gatekeep, gaslight.

- all homeric heroes literal psychopaths.💀

- agamemnon's brother gets shot, he literally makes a speech about how that affects him - Menelaus literally comforts him while bleeding

- athene grabs Achilles' hair and stops him from lunging to kill someone, while invisible. That most look so silly.

- We also love Nestor 😍

Reblog for larger sample size whatever